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Post by bawanajim on May 31, 2013 23:48:42 GMT -5
Sierra Club?
There are more than you think with the cash.
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Post by Dutch on Jun 1, 2013 6:14:49 GMT -5
Sierra Club? There are more than you think with the cash. When you said "individual", that does not include an organization. Mineral rights to 25,000 acres in the Marcellus? No idea what that might cost.
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Post by bawanajim on Jun 1, 2013 8:41:36 GMT -5
@ $3000.00 an acre that's 75 million, approximately the cost of drilling 10 wells, not much in the realm of todays world. Twenty five thousand acres would likely facilitate 12-15 wells in a perfect world.
I think negotiations now could result in a more equitable resolution than hand wringing and name calling.
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Post by bawanajim on Jun 1, 2013 10:31:47 GMT -5
Just to give some of you estimated numbers that these wells are producing in "my area" of Crawford county. The owner of the mineral and gas rights with the standard 3/16 share of a well who owns , as in this case all of the 640 acres containing the well would receive on average a check for in the neighbor hood of $128000:00 per month, or close to 1.5 million per year per well at todays prices. And the price of gas is low at this time. Just some numbers to think about as your kids move to the filth of cities in search of jobs capable of supporting their families.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2013 11:01:19 GMT -5
Mike I have a 150 acre tract here in Crawford county that I treasure, it is beautiful and I spend time most every day there as the land is attached to the home I live in. But I am a strong believer in private property rights also, two of the parcels I own are subdivided into lots for home building sites, that will never happen while I'm alive. The county leadership would love to see new homes and a larger tax base, I do not. I will look for a old link to some pictures from my property to post for your viewing pleasure. Heres the link, I hope it works. www.huntingnet.com/forum/bowhunting/240418-just-walk-my-woods.htmlYou have a beautiful place. And I'm certainly in favor of your property rights. What we are talking about is a State Forest and I feel that is the difference.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2013 11:05:03 GMT -5
It is a sad commentary to classify folks like you did Mike. I'm an independent but that don't mean a hoot as to what you think I believe about caring or not caring on issues. Frankly you're stance doesn't remind me of Socialism it reminds me more of classic Communism. To take that which is legitimately owned from private hands and put it in "der people's hands" because it's purdy kind of sucks! I have no guilt for slavery, Indian problems or anything other inequity those before me committed. African tribal leaders kidnapped, raped and enslaved rival tribes, Indian tribes did the same and slaughtered rival warriors --- took territory before white men ever moved west. That don't excuse unfair treatment but you would continue such thievery by taking that which is legally owned --- just for the pleasure of others. I also don't know how much time you've spent in Canada but what I saw on my 11 stays there, (next to the flying dust reservation in Meadow lake), was a sad state of humanity wasted in Lysol and shaving lotions. Yeah Canada treats em good alright......................! Natives in all of North America are in sad shape. No one can instill pride where there is no will to be prideful. A few pick themselves up and shake off the excuses but many just stick out their hands. Keep this in mind, to my knowledge no native person is forbidden from leaving the reservation and becoming a part of society. Me? I didn't do it, my dad didn't do it neither did any of my ancestors and I have no guilt nor debt for it. Let's keep America great for acknowledging our mistakes and improving and being the most conscientious country on earth. (Ever seen Canadian surface mining and oil exploration going on right now?) Nah............. Communist huh? I usually just get accused of having spent too much time in Vermont. ;D
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Post by bawanajim on Jun 1, 2013 11:15:58 GMT -5
Some would point out that state owned cabins and private camps are as detrimental to the parks well being as drilling might be. I have no desire to see drilling in these pristine places, yet laws are in place for all to fallow. The first line of defense for those of you that want to preserve this place is to find out whom is set to profit from this drilling, that would the holder of the OGM rights on this land. You might be surprised to find out who this is.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2013 17:41:34 GMT -5
Mike no name calling here. I related my opinion of the scenario you painted. Did not call you a Communist. Maybe a small distinction but I wanted to clarify that.
I ask you to review your stance in light of supporting --- the taking something from the legal owner, just cause you think a hunk of land should nor be drilled or mined underground for gas/oil!
Lets remember that SFLs are "NOT" left in pristine condition as it is. They are timbered, roads are put in, parking areas and hiking trails, I see plenty of shale pits open also for seasonal road rebuilds, picnic and camping areas --- all alter the landscape.
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Post by wentzler on Jun 2, 2013 9:41:30 GMT -5
Actually know..a good friends Hunting Camp got together, hired an attorney, purchased the mineral and all subsurface rights to their property, rolled into an LLP, of which all the 'members' are 'partners'. Part of the wrangling included doing an evaluation of those rights value over a proscribed time period..and for now, they sit pretty durn well, no pun intended. My friend Bpwbum, alterations to landscapes, need be viewed in the future, not as how expedient they can be left for future human endeavors, but more closely 'left' to how nature would 'prefer' it..for all the right reasons. Granted, there are way too many 'reasons' for any individual to fully contemplate....but then there are also quite handsome possibilities therein. You should have a long email in your box, I sent this morning. It went to more than a few, I know I'll get some extremely useful 'feedback', and the feedack will come from individuals whose viewpoints I deeply respect, but who also know full well I will mull over their input long and hard..and just may arrive at somewhat different 'conclusions'. But bottom line is..in the entire endeavor..I keep wind, water, lotsa water!, wildlife birds, and 'indigenous' ALWAYS in mind. Anything less would be,....umm, well...'human'
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Post by bawanajim on Jun 2, 2013 10:05:44 GMT -5
An LLC is a good Idea for a group of unrelated individuals, but if you have children or extended family a land trust might be a better option, with another option being gifting those OGM rights to your children before they are leased and are given value, thus avoiding taxation when they inherit these rights. Even a relatively small parcel of land has potential for a great long term return with proper planning
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2013 19:20:48 GMT -5
I'm not even viewing, long or short term, alterations at this point, only trying to defend ownership rights and individual right to pursuit of happiness through their investments.
What I will say about alterations is that some are mentioning SFLs as though they are currently left in pristine unaltered condition --- nothing could be further from the truth.
I haven't open my email yet, even though I did see there was one from you my friend. We're off to Mansfield on business early in the a.m. and then an extraordinarily busy 6 weeks lies ahead with planned major projects here.
Now my son has finally gotten smart and decided to marry the absolutely wonderful gal he has been seeing for some time. We will be heading to Michigan for the event in about 3 weeks or so.
Of course he timed it for right in the middle of when I have a backhoe leased for 4 weeks. I always prided myself in getting near to 40 hours in the seat per week when I rent dozers and backhoes but a trip to Michigan will set me back on that --- may have to reschedule some excavation work.
I'll check email Ed. Keep the faith --- all is good!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2013 8:52:46 GMT -5
Mike no name calling here. I related my opinion of the scenario you painted. Did not call you a Communist. Maybe a small distinction but I wanted to clarify that. I ask you to review your stance in light of supporting --- the taking something from the legal owner, just cause you think a hunk of land should nor be drilled or mined underground for gas/oil! Lets remember that SFLs are "NOT" left in pristine condition as it is. They are timbered, roads are put in, parking areas and hiking trails, I see plenty of shale pits open also for seasonal road rebuilds, picnic and camping areas --- all alter the landscape. No hard feelings. I know I'm "out there" when it comes to environmental (mental?) issues. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2013 15:08:06 GMT -5
Absolutely no hard feeling here over differences of opinions! I also don't want to send false signals that I am an uncaring person when it comes to environmental issues. My wife and I have gotten bloody several times in local situations of environmental concerns --- we "DO" put our names and efforts forth in that regard.
However, when a family invests in all rights and then, for tax purposes or just plain good-heartedness, donates or sells the actual surface but opts to keep their investment of OG rights --- they deserve not to be beaten out of it.
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