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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 16:10:41 GMT -5
Yes, I have also been there recently but, once again after a quick look-see, opted to go to the High Knob Inn for our lunch. I've eaten meals since about 55 years ago and drank beer at the FI since I returned from the military and a short stint of living in California 40+ years ago. It had always been one of my favorites because of the decor and location.......heck I even met and married a waitress from there waaaaaaay back. I never really cared for the personalities of Richard and Katrina when they owned it but at least Richard required a clean business.
I guess in general if I had to sum it up, I've been noticing a lack of pride in our area for quite some time and an acceptance of it. Then when our locals want to blame all the filth on the gas industry and reach their hands out for cash it kind of makes me ashamed to be among them. There is no "all perfect" industry but there has never been an industry with so much oversight and such a high level of social responsibility as the energy industry.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2013 10:42:51 GMT -5
Yes, I have also been there recently but, once again after a quick look-see, opted to go to the High Knob Inn for our lunch. I've eaten meals since about 55 years ago and drank beer at the FI since I returned from the military and a short stint of living in California 40+ years ago. It had always been one of my favorites because of the decor and location.......heck I even met and married a waitress from there waaaaaaay back. I never really cared for the personalities of Richard and Katrina when they owned it but at least Richard required a clean business. I guess in general if I had to sum it up, I've been noticing a lack of pride in our area for quite some time and an acceptance of it. Then when our locals want to blame all the filth on the gas industry and reach their hands out for cash it kind of makes me ashamed to be among them. There is no "all perfect" industry but there has never been an industry with so much oversight and such a high level of social responsibility as the energy industry. That is a valid point.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2013 9:27:11 GMT -5
Found this in the comment section of the Williamsport paper,
*****, we had the same problem with garbage and trespassers on our land when we lived on 87. I hired a company to install 6 security cameras on our property, now remember pictures don't lie.
While we were on vacation we had seismic testing people and natural gas people on our property and we did not lease. They left behind their garbage and even used my hose to rinse off their boots, of course all on video.
We turned the video over to the State Police and the companies were fined for trespassing and littering on our property and we never had a problem after that and even though we sold the house the new owners are still using the cameras.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2013 9:33:13 GMT -5
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Post by bawanajim on May 16, 2013 9:48:23 GMT -5
How many America lives have been lost on foreign soil over oil? Need we lose more?
America has the ability to fuel our selves safely and efficiently if we use the proper fore thought and wisdom gained from past failures.
If you want to talk about a huge waste, source of pollution and water degrading then lets look into turning corn into fuel.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2013 9:53:13 GMT -5
How many America lives have been lost on foreign soil over oil? Need we lose more?America has the ability to fuel our selves safely and efficiently if we use the proper fore thought and wisdom gained from past failures. If you want to talk about a huge waste, source of pollution and water degrading then lets look into turning corn into fuel. We will anyway. Even if we would be entirely self sustaining (never happen) we will still go to war if our allies sources of oil are in jeopardy.
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Post by bawanajim on May 16, 2013 10:15:25 GMT -5
What allies? We have the best allies that our borrowed money can buy!
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Post by bawanajim on May 16, 2013 10:17:22 GMT -5
And really fuel might just be the only way we can ever pay off our huge debt to China.
Of course we have to stop increasing that debt before we can start repaying it.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2013 10:23:05 GMT -5
Moosemike, surveyors and seismic guys were also regulars on our land and I still find new ribbons at times, needed to define "unit boundaries." Difference is -- we "did" sign up and expected workers to have to trek here. All --- to the person, have been extremely courteous and responsible.
In fact, many who come on our land without our knowledge have nothing to do with the gas industry. But I'm not surprised to know that gas workers from some of the many dozens of companies in the region would enter without permission also.
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Post by dennyf on May 16, 2013 10:45:31 GMT -5
Yep, there have been some problems with the influx of gas workers. And there have always been some problems with those who live in rural PA and visitors, like seasonal tourists and hunters. As for trash, most of it found along the twp. gravel road my camp is on, was deposited by those who live in the area or locals who are passing through. Over the past 40 years I've removed entire cases of empty beer cans, soda bottles and even McDonald's bags. Odd, since the nearest McD's is 35 miles away in Wellsboro? All of that was long before the first gas worker ever showed up. I don't know anyone who has had problems with gas drilling or gas workers around where my camp is, other than some who complained about noise, dust and truck traffic. When they moved endless numbers of frack tankers down our road two years ago, they kept it brined to hold down the dust. Had the trucks went any slower, they'd still be moving tankers. Before that road was bonded for gas industry use, the local driller had his crews grade the road that spring, even though they hadn't used it yet. For free and a much better job of grading than the local supervisors had ever done. I know all of the supervisors personally. Their excuse, was that Juan used a new CAT grader w/joystick controls and their old twp. grader was harder to use. I suggested they have Juan give them instruction on how to properly grade gravel roads. And since the entire road was brined once it was bonded/used by the drillers, the twp. didn't have to spend money to brine it that summer. And again, it was a far better job than the supervisors ever did in brining it, since they did the entire road. Not to mention that the twp. boys often "forgot" to apply brine in front of my cabin over the years. I will repeat my observation on pipelines that traverse standing timber, especially that which is in pole stage: Pipelines make pretty nifty food plots for all wildlife, where before, there was often virtually nothing to sustain wildlife. Oh, and I forgot about the road repairs in our area. Any soft spots in the twp. gravel roads, were dug up and filled with crushed limestone, when gas drillers showed up and on their "dime". Most of those "sink holes" had been around for as long as I can recall, caused annual problems during spring thaws and were never properly addressed by the twp. Now they no longer exist in the spring time. One stretch of nearby state road that had never been stoned/paved properly to begin with, was made right by PADOT decree. Gas drillers had to pay to have it torn up, new stone base, drainage and black top applied. Prior to that, PADOT just kept putting another layer of oil/chips on it each summer, as it always crumbled after the winters. The only truck traffic on that road prior to gas trucks, were milk tankers, feed trucks and the occasional log truck. Somehow, the gas industry got stuck paying the bill to have that stretch of road done right. Didn't cost the taxpayers, milk trucks, feed trucks or loggers, a dime.
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Post by dalesholder on May 18, 2013 5:26:58 GMT -5
I dont think anyone is saying there hasnt been good things done by the gas companies but at the same time to deny there have been abuses and things not so good isnt right either. What I am saying and a lot of others is there are places that drilling shouldnt be allowed and the Rock Run area is 1 of those. Plenty of other places that can be drilled.
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Post by dennyf on May 18, 2013 7:00:04 GMT -5
No question that there are downsides and hazards to drilling.
Human error and mechanical failures are present in any endeavor, always have been. But comparisons to what resulted years ago from unregulated mining and timbering, aren't a part of what is going on today.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2013 7:59:55 GMT -5
I agree that the number and impact-seriousness of mistakes are miniscule when measured with the scope and magnitude of the work being done. No one wants mistakes to happen but they do. In recent weeks two different gas companies reported having a "small" fire and then again another having a "small" spill. Ch16 news covered the story as if it were world news worthy. However, in both cases when interviewing neighbors they all commented in flattering terms of the professionalism and precautions taken. DEP and all the powers-to-be were of course on site in short order. No negative environmental impact was found. "But" citations and fines were issued! I've never heard of a citation being given when a farmer, saw mill, scrap yard has a "small" fire or a "small" spill………………
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Post by dennyf on May 18, 2013 14:16:06 GMT -5
Triaxle blows a hose on a well site and spews hydraulic oil on the ground: A reportable incident that's listed along with all other reportable incidents and ANYTHING that occurs on a well site, is reportable. Even if it has nothing to do with the actual drilling operations.
Same truck blows a hose at a sawmill or some excavation site: Seldom if ever shows up anyplace.
Years ago when I was moving dirt and stumps at a building site, the radiator tank blew on the dumptruck, spewing antifreeze. I drove it out to our shop, repaired it and went back to work hauling dirt. No harm, no foul.
Had I been on a drilling site, a report would've been required and it would show up on that site's reportable incidents list.
This is why I get a bit leary about anti-drilling groups and their rants on reported incidents, as a reason to curtail drilling.
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Post by dalesholder on May 18, 2013 16:12:07 GMT -5
I am not a member of any anti drilling group nor am I anti drilling what I am is for common sense drilling and there are places that should not be drilled in. Have yet to see what people dont understand about that. There are some on here and elsewhere that would allow drilling no matter what the location and to hell with what others think. Why is it so hard to have places off limits or is greed of the almight dollar that rampant that it over rides concerns of others and the enviroment?
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Post by Bill on May 18, 2013 16:13:40 GMT -5
I am not a member of any anti drilling group nor am I anti drilling what I am is for common sense drilling and there are places that should not be drilled in. Have yet to see what people dont understand about that. There are some on here and elsewhere that would allow drilling no matter what the location and to hell with what others think. Why is it so hard to have places off limits or is greed of the almight dollar that rampant that it over rides concerns of others and the enviroment? +1
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Post by dennyf on May 18, 2013 17:52:11 GMT -5
I'm not opposed to keeping certain pristine areas off limits, never said I was?
Merely pointing out a few things that often go by the radar.
Neat thing about some of the drilling going on that benefits PGC (and therefore our wildlife), is that there's no actual "footprint" on some SGLs.
While the gas under them is being tapped, in some cases it's being tapped by rigs located off of the actual SGL itself.
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Post by wentzler on May 18, 2013 21:14:50 GMT -5
...keep 'er goin' guys ...I think yer makin' progress...towards an 'end' that 'could' make a He&& of a lot of sense. At least I have a "sense" that is the case...in at least several cases concerning a couple of you 'cases' Ever'body wit half a brain is so up tight about all of this...couldn't pull a hatpin outta some of yer arses with one of those larger pieces of heavy equipment...seem dot the landscape nearly everywhere these days...but seem so 'professionally run' by some real talented cowboys from somewhere?? Suspect a lot of 'em 'usto' ride bulls in rodeos...and have both the busted bones..and a smidge more 'common sense' now?? Me, I'm still waitin' to see how it all pans out in the end. Twain said..."predictions are especially difficult if they concern the future" or something to that effect. I've been wrong..painfully wrong...to many times already in this Life... ...think I'll use an old friend 'Time'...and see if another, 'Patience'...can't up my percentages a bit?
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2013 8:02:52 GMT -5
Dalesholder and Eyefromthesky.... I too have not seen anyone on here speak of support for "anywhere and everywhere" drilling!
Good chance I missed some posts but I recall reading that most agree to the ideal of preserving some natural areas as they were designated to be.
I just would like to see that accusation, (in reference to posters here); "to hell with what others think; substantiated....?
Greed, speculated as a motive, is interesting. I think "jealousy" or "envy" is an opposite motive against drilling, in spite of all the national benefits to come, and already here, from developing this market.
And again, I'd like to see this "environment" concern supported with facts. Trust me, I've tried to find some facts to substantiate those concerns.
There is a reasonable and logical approach to this. Every decision, without exception, that we humans make is based on comparisons. Is life better with this person, compared to without this person? Is life better working at this job, compared to with another job? And so on.
Weighing environmental risks in anything short of dealing in comparative facts is "Chicken Little" logic!
Same applies to our energy economy, our national security, dependent in reliable energy supplies.
Also make the comparison of jobs, no jobs, tax incomes, social benefits etc. --- on and on.
Is there evidence Ed, Dale or Eye --- that shows environmental damage, (in known history of more than a million wells fracked), that says, by comparison, those benefits don't justify making our nation more independent in those ways? Then, if you really want something to fear --- make those same comparisons, based in fact --- to any other industry, including farming, mining, timber, textile manufacturing................
Throwing out insults to phantom posters isn't productive. If ya got information to share that helps others find their position, then share it.
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Post by wentzler on May 19, 2013 8:35:39 GMT -5
..I ain't skeered Just nervous. There's a difference As long as they keep planting clover. trefoil, rye, oats, and perrenial grasses on those pipelines Now if we could get them talked into some conifers' and a few apple and pear trees on the edges here and there... ....and tearing all those fancy roads up when they leave... ...(only joking
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Post by dennyf on May 19, 2013 10:33:15 GMT -5
Aye on the pipeline plantings.
When it appeared that I might have one running across my camp lands, the landman thought he was onto something by "selling" a shooting lane through some of my scrubby woods above my hayfield.
Told him I had enough shooting lanes in the denser woods, but a nice clearing through the scrub would be appreciated, planted in beneficial perennials.
He wanted to know if I wanted 'em to plant out in the ROW across the hayfield. Told him nope. My cousin wouldn't want the loss in hay and the deer are already happy with the second growth clover out there.
I'll get to gawk at some of the existing pipeline ROWs next week when we go up to camp, as most should've been restored by now? I assume those that cross existing cropfields will have been seeded back to whatever the owner wanted.
It's the ones crossing forested areas that interest me.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2013 10:56:38 GMT -5
"Hydraulic fracking, "important in development of America's oil and natural gas, has been used in over one million wells since the late 1940s" "
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Post by Bill on May 20, 2013 11:06:46 GMT -5
bowbum I wasn't trying to single anyone out here, just agreeing with the overall message of that post.
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Post by dennyf on May 20, 2013 15:42:28 GMT -5
He's a tough ol' bird and can take it. Been picking on him for over 10 years and haven't (hardly) riled him yet. Now he's all mellowed out and such, for some reason?
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Post by wentzler on May 20, 2013 16:10:43 GMT -5
..and I'd need agree with that ^^
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