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Post by wentzler on Apr 29, 2013 7:55:33 GMT -5
Bowbum, always good to keep a clear and open mind You do well in that regard It is a many faceted concern to be sure. And one of the things that concerns me most is how many people haven't a clue when someone shows up with lease agreements. I've seen the 'look' of bewilderment on too many faces here, when folks get a look at five pages of legalese. To the 'average person' legalese may as well be Chinese, and some of my neighbors don't have the money to pay their property taxes, let alone entertain the services of an attorney. I've put in a LOT of time making it my business to find out what my neighbors REALLY wanted in the whole arrangement. Most of them were absolutely stunned to find out I had re-written my own lease(s), more so to find out I offered to have my attorney draw up the documents at the gas company's expense. (I was told "we don't do that'. I smiled and said "yes you do. I can do the paperwork and you'll sign it, and pay my fees, and it'll be done right first time...or, you can do it, as many times as necessary until you have it right. Either way, you DO pay legal fees." Turns out most of them don't want a 110 foot right of way through their creek bottom property any more than I do. They are already, right now as I type, connecting three wells in a little more than a three mile triangle, with a pipeline under/across 87. The first well at Farragut is already 'selling' gas through an injection plant on the Trans continental pipeline just above Montoursville. How many main trunk transmission lines are really needed? How many would be 'convenient'? There aren't going to be that many injection sites, they cost over 10 M to 'connect', with a very strict timeline, and a monstrous 'penalty' per day for any time over-runs. And yes, I do have 'fears', data and statistics not withstanding. I've seen first hand a lot of the 'activity' west of Rte 15, and it is not pretty. The pads are predominantly on the south facing benches, that most wildlife uses for winter refuge, and the MILES of access roads and pipeline right of ways, have reduced a LARGE wilderness to very small parcels of fragmented habitats. For the first 55 years of my life, I never saw Ogontz Run run off color. It does now. It HAD the highest water quality index in the state, it's 'average' now. The front ridge of the LSF, The Allegheny Ridge, has fourteen pad sites designated, from 87, east to just the Big Bear Drainage, some 16 miles/+/-. all on the south facing top (only) bench. There are I understand, that many more to be strung out across the base plateau on private properties. I'm just in process of discovering how many more are seeking permitting in the nine or so miles between the front face and route 87 to the north. I do know I couldn't put foot last year anywhere on the whole Tract, that hadn't been 'marked out'. That includes all the myriad headwaters of two significant drainages. A good part of those drainages are only accessible in the winter by snowmobile or shank's mare. Also happens to be one of three or four of the best extended black bear ranges east of the Mississippi River. Mostly because, it's 'unbroken', vast, and difficult to access for the 'masses'. I guess this old warrior ponders whether 'cheap' energy, and 'energy independence' are not, in the Long run, oxymorons?? I re-iterate by association, the thought above in an earlier post; ask any surviving 'oldster' whether an exploitation of resource(s) really improved things, and the answer is most often in the negative. PA? Timber by the English first, Coal, timber again turn of last century, coal again western PA/Ohio/WV. Either the process of extraction, or the end process(es) results may well be in large part, why our forests struggle to regenerate, trout to most fishermen are 'green' and come in tank trucks? How many ga-zillion cubic yards of NC PA topsoil washed to the Chessie in the flood of 1936? Would there have been a flood of '36 if the mountains had still had Trees on them?? The whole thing is giving me gas Yep, I'm sure life will go on, and I won't be here in another 20 years or so...but my kids and grandkids will.....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2013 11:47:23 GMT -5
The DCNR should work Anadarko as hard as possible in this situation. The surface rights clause in the deed gives the DCNR lots of power, in this case. Being a private sector capitalist who has made his living owning a business for 15 years, I certainly do not believe in interfering with anybody else trying to do the same. However, I also can see what has happened here in PA. The gas companies have come in and paid large sums of $$$ to Corbett and other politicians. In return, the DEP and DCNR have basically been turned into gas drilling promotion agencies. That is WRONG. These agencies should be focused on protecting PA. The Corbett admin should tell Anadarko they can drill there. They also should tell them we are going to tell you where the pads and roads go. And, you are going to give us a bunch of land and $$$ in return. Do I expect this? No. But, with enough pressure, Corbett may be forced to do the right thing. I can't wait until we get the chance to vote Corbett out....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2013 11:50:58 GMT -5
Bowbum, always good to keep a clear and open mind You do well in that regard It is a many faceted concern to be sure. And one of the things that concerns me most is how many people haven't a clue when someone shows up with lease agreements. I've seen the 'look' of bewilderment on too many faces here, when folks get a look at five pages of legalese. To the 'average person' legalese may as well be Chinese, and some of my neighbors don't have the money to pay their property taxes, let alone entertain the services of an attorney. I've put in a LOT of time making it my business to find out what my neighbors REALLY wanted in the whole arrangement. Most of them were absolutely stunned to find out I had re-written my own lease(s), more so to find out I offered to have my attorney draw up the documents at the gas company's expense. (I was told "we don't do that'. I smiled and said "yes you do. I can do the paperwork and you'll sign it, and pay my fees, and it'll be done right first time...or, you can do it, as many times as necessary until you have it right. Either way, you DO pay legal fees." Turns out most of them don't want a 110 foot right of way through their creek bottom property any more than I do. They are already, right now as I type, connecting three wells in a little more than a three mile triangle, with a pipeline under/across 87. The first well at Farragut is already 'selling' gas through an injection plant on the Trans continental pipeline just above Montoursville. How many main trunk transmission lines are really needed? How many would be 'convenient'? There aren't going to be that many injection sites, they cost over 10 M to 'connect', with a very strict timeline, and a monstrous 'penalty' per day for any time over-runs. And yes, I do have 'fears', data and statistics not withstanding. I've seen first hand a lot of the 'activity' west of Rte 15, and it is not pretty. The pads are predominantly on the south facing benches, that most wildlife uses for winter refuge, and the MILES of access roads and pipeline right of ways, have reduced a LARGE wilderness to very small parcels of fragmented habitats. For the first 55 years of my life, I never saw Ogontz Run run off color. It does now. It HAD the highest water quality index in the state, it's 'average' now. The front ridge of the LSF, The Allegheny Ridge, has fourteen pad sites designated, from 87, east to just the Big Bear Drainage, some 16 miles/+/-. all on the south facing top (only) bench. There are I understand, that many more to be strung out across the base plateau on private properties. I'm just in process of discovering how many more are seeking permitting in the nine or so miles between the front face and route 87 to the north. I do know I couldn't put foot last year anywhere on the whole Tract, that hadn't been 'marked out'. That includes all the myriad headwaters of two significant drainages. A good part of those drainages are only accessible in the winter by snowmobile or shank's mare. Also happens to be one of three or four of the best extended black bear ranges east of the Mississippi River. Mostly because, it's 'unbroken', vast, and difficult to access for the 'masses'. I guess this old warrior ponders whether 'cheap' energy, and 'energy independence' are not, in the Long run, oxymorons?? I re-iterate by association, the thought above in an earlier post; ask any surviving 'oldster' whether an exploitation of resource(s) really improved things, and the answer is most often in the negative. PA? Timber by the English first, Coal, timber again turn of last century, coal again western PA/Ohio/WV. Either the process of extraction, or the end process(es) results may well be in large part, why our forests struggle to regenerate, trout to most fishermen are 'green' and come in tank trucks? How many ga-zillion cubic yards of NC PA topsoil washed to the Chessie in the flood of 1936? Would there have been a flood of '36 if the mountains had still had Trees on them?? The whole thing is giving me gas Yep, I'm sure life will go on, and I won't be here in another 20 years or so...but my kids and grandkids will..... Once again... Spot on. I couldn't word it as well as you if I tried.
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Post by wentzler on Apr 29, 2013 12:52:53 GMT -5
No politician is ever 'forced' to do the 'right thing', they are 'forced' only to $ee the blame fall$ $quarely on the next admini$tration, or the 'other' party. 'Arguably'...very, very arguably
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Post by Dutch on Apr 29, 2013 14:02:58 GMT -5
The entire problem is fairly simple. Reduce that part of the population that consumes a great deal of energy, by about half, and most of these "problems" would vanish.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2013 16:36:42 GMT -5
The entire problem is fairly simple. Reduce that part of the population that consumes a great deal of energy, by about half, and most of these "problems" would vanish. As in reduce the general assembly's time they spend trying to find ways to screw us so they can keep their cushy jobs and pensions! We should vote out every incumbent until we get ones that will pass legislation that makes them a part-time legislature. Then they wouldn't have all this free time on their hands coming up with ways to micro-manage our fish and game agencies either.
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Post by wentzler on Apr 29, 2013 17:41:59 GMT -5
Makes too much sense to fly, Frank.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2013 19:21:18 GMT -5
Ed, thanks for responding. My respect for your knowledge, always gained through exerted and in depth effort is reinforced every time we discuss an issue and those one is no different. Tis my position that signing a mineral lease is the landowners personal business and they should be responsible no less than negotiating the purchase of a truck or house. More so, once the leases started flowing, there were all sorts of "free" seminars and endless owners groups that hired skilled advisors. (Laceyville landowners signed for $6,7850 per acre and 20% of the net --- two+ years ago). I also re-wrote portions of my lease and only learned that I could do so simply by asking the Landman, (a woman). I paid "NO" legal fees and each sentence I included was acknowledged in writing by the Landman. The gas industry, whether it be Shell, Chesapeake, SWN, Midstream or another, is no different than any business whose stockholders benefit the most by the most favorable deals made. I sympathize with folks who aren't capable of making responsible transactions but absolutely no one forced them to make "any" deal.
I wish I had been here during rural electrification! I can imagine the same "electric will kill us" fears as powerline-ROWs were cut across those pristine wooded hillsides and transformer stations constructed. I think comparing the NG industry to the rape of timber and coal, both of which were virtually unregulated is quite a stretch. I could write a book on the precautions, almost to the point of silliness, taken when a pad or pipeline is planned out. I also have never encountered an industry that responds to unproven claims without question just to maintain good working relations with neighbors. There are several cases locally, less well known than Dimmock, that were simply false and an effort to cure existing problems or make some hefty cash settlement.
In many cases pipelines are unwanted as were electric ROW -- poles and towers, as were windmill farms, roads to connect one or two houses with another main road, or a myriad of progressive enterprises to serve man's needs. They may reduce large wilderness areas but in some cases they simply "change" from one habitat to another and in others and there are many miles that conclude with "NO" change to topography. In some there are probable improvements for many species wildlife. As you are more aware than most, "trees' alone do not define habitat and there certainly are wilderness areas needing some diversity for ground nesters and grazing. Not to say I want to see forests deliberately replace with 60, 90 or even those 110' wide pipelines. I also do not want to see SFL mined for gas via surface disturbance or risk to water supplies. I don't think we're looking at "cheap" energy and one needn't be an oldster to have knowledge of the short-sighted sins of our grandfather's. As for the end result of those misguided acts, our country would not, could not, have been built had no one wanted to cut trees or mine coal. I think life is a --- learning by our mistakes adventure. Harm is done and remembered --- to be less casually addressed in further endeavors.
I think it is irresponsible to not develop on private land that which can be a more dependable source of energy --- concurrent with every ounce of conservation, smart precaution, responsible oversight and accountability. But most of all, I reeeeeally hope I am not wrong in my assessments. I constantly hear doomsday predictions but I "NEVER" see any solid validation, in a massive energy mining boom that has fracked over a million wells to date.
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Post by TusseyMtman on Apr 29, 2013 19:32:51 GMT -5
I am talking about the Loyalsock land in question, not all of PA. I absolutely encourage the DCNR to tell them where they can put the pads, just like the PGC does. I don't trust an engineer from TX with PA public land. Nope! I want the DCNR to negotiate on behalf of PA residents. Didn't you just write several paragraphs advocating the same thing? As far as the campaign money, do you think I was born on the moon? Or, do I live under a rock?
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Post by Dutch on Apr 29, 2013 20:00:21 GMT -5
The entire problem is fairly simple. Reduce that part of the population that consumes a great deal of energy, by about half, and most of these "problems" would vanish. As in reduce the general assembly's time they spend trying to find ways to screw us so they can keep their cushy jobs and pensions! We should vote out every incumbent until we get ones that will pass legislation that makes them a part-time legislature. Then they wouldn't have all this free time on their hands coming up with ways to micro-manage our fish and game agencies either. No, I mean the world needs a "plague" of sorts that reduces world population, mostly in those nations that consume and waste so much.
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Post by dalesholder on Apr 30, 2013 4:47:32 GMT -5
All well and good what you said BB but and I mean but your not the one looking at the devastation going on around here. Another gas company fined in the paper the other day. More like we do what we want and to hell with it if we get fined oh well cost of doing things how we want. The gas industry is here to stay no doubt about it but there are places that dont not need disturbed nor drilled on. I dont see how hard it is for people to see that or understand it. To each his own I guess.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2013 8:07:03 GMT -5
Tussey, "yes" I also advocated for leaving SFLs alone. And I also am in agreement that, as I did, the state should be able to determine which proposed well site suits the best --- no argument on either point from me. I didn't get involved in any debate about campaign money… ?? However, if you are implying that the gas industry contributes to political campaigns of any affiliation --- yes, we again are in agreement! No, I don't know where you live. Dale, I'll correct you; I "AM" a person looking at all the NG industry is doing. I have a pipeline less than 200 yards from my house and well pads North, South, East and West of me --- all less than 3/4 mile. I invite you or anyone else to visit me --- I'll provide lunch and we'll take my side-by-side up on the pipeline and to a couple of those wells so you can see close up what "for real" the NG industry is about. With the magnitude of work going on, involving hundreds of different contractors and subcontractors, thousands of workers, it is a no-brainer that there will be mishaps resulting in fines. The question is; "what were those mishaps?" I'm told that a couple of weeks ago SWN was fined because a non-worker drove on to a well pad and went to talk to a worker --- without a hard hat! There have been fines for all sorts of nondescript and innocuous infractions. Are there serious, environmental impact mishaps that exceed what happens in farming, logging, quarrying or recycling? Re-read my posts if you think I am one of those advocating drilling on forests lands.
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Post by wentzler on Apr 30, 2013 8:50:25 GMT -5
Time out, bell! everyone back to the corner Yer all on the same page, here!!! Yer all EXACTLY what we NEED in the MIX !! I will say it, as I think I said it best to my two sons, both of whom are working "within" the industry. Both came to me and asked ME..if I would think 'less' of them if they took employment within the industry. Again, my favorite response usually begins with a smile I told them, "no, you're exactly the people I WANT working for the industry." They both have exceptional minds. They both know right from wrong, and have the inner strengths to CHOOSE the former They have both become incredible resources for their old man, and imho...for ALL of us. That's also how I 'see' all of you So let's all take a well deserved deep breath..or two...and get back to "work"...employing the sentient common sense all of us learned best...from our experiences and observations in the natural world of the outdoors And then double our efforts to preserve some of it
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Post by Dutch on Apr 30, 2013 9:29:38 GMT -5
Couple years ago my brother attended safety training and some sort of orientation for the gas industry.
One comments was that under no circumstance were rattlesnakes to be killed. If you did, you would lose your job and the company you worked for probably would lose their contract.
Merlin Benner has a company that spends a great deal of time on wildlife issues for the gas industry. They actually go out and move snakes that are found around well pads, or pipeline projects, and there are strict regs on how and where they are moved. I believe, no more than 160 yds.
Now, you mess with a snake the wrong way, and your company will get a fine.
My brother also went to see a fella on a well site. No hardhat was a HUGE no-no, like BB said.
You drip oil or anti-freeze from your water truck, and you'll get a fine. Meanwhile, how many of us have vehicles that do the same, and we get no fines.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2013 10:25:06 GMT -5
Me? Very calm!
A recent observation by a local, (anti-gas), dignitary was this; "Since gas workers showed up arrest for drug use have risen." I recently got my CC Permit and while at the sheriff's office I asked Sheriff CJ Walters about the claim. He stated that his report shows drug arrest did go up, (2012), about 1.8 percent. "BUT" the increase of young males between the ages of 19 to 30 years old in our county is estimated to have increased by about 12 to 14 percent. In reality, drug use per capita of gas workers, thus is much less than non-gas workers!
Most companies not only do frequent drug tests but do not even allow facial hair. Most require fire retardant clothing and all safety gear be worn in all work zones. There is zero tolerance of conduct outside of work also. If there is a DUI arrest --- bye bye worker. Any public fracas will result in termination from work. Speeding in company trucks or reckless driving is a one-time warning and then suspension.
I seen "NO" industry in my entire industrial career that set and upholds such personnel standards.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2013 9:13:15 GMT -5
But the workers litter at will. I found so much trash the last couple years around fracking activity. Usually soda bottles and chip bags but they throw almost anything they're done with on the ground. They were even pulling down behind a neighboring camp which was vacant to take sh*ts on the ground. The frackers hog things up. They are Messicans after all lets not pretend they're the classiest people in our state. I might also add that they were parking a Front end loader on the LSF and after they moved it I saw where it had leaked a lot of fluid onto the ground.
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Post by wentzler on May 1, 2013 14:06:39 GMT -5
Mike, while I can't bring myself to fault the work ethic of Mexican labor...I noticed many years ago the further south ya go the more trash just gets heaved. Seen it first hand, had to deal with it once. It's a habit almost impossible to break...unless you have a deep regard for the land. Point in (and) case I guess?? Have noticed here along 87 as well. Cleanups are producing twice or three times as much roadside garbage as just three years ago. I need pick up my front lawn every other day it seems USTE2B once a month
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2013 16:53:29 GMT -5
I live in the middle of a house mentality and it ain't Mexicans, Ricans, Africans or any other cans. It's good old North PA third generation welfare recipients.
That is exactly the base of my gripes about the contradictions. My wife and I attended 9 straight monthly township meetings to try to get illegal dumps and roadside and front yard(s) trash cleaned up. Kate walked 5 miles of Pantherlick Road most weekends in summer picking up trash and I finally forbade her to do it again, (gotta get over there and take the sign with her name on it down). There weren't and still ain't no gas wells being serviced off that road. It was mostly trash chucked from the school buses but also satellite trash trucks that had only side boards and no tarps.
In one township meeting a supervisor who had about had it with us pressuring them to enforce ordinances sated; "Hell Chesapeake will come and pick up all the trash if you say their trucks put it there. I swear on my mother's soul that is the mentality of these losers ---- look the other way until you get cornered and then shift the responsibility to some one else.
Ed is probably familiar with the Forksville Inn. My wife and I went there about four years ago for dinner and the parking lot and roadside area was so stinking filthy that we turned around and drove 30 miles to Sonestwon instead. Was hardly any gas workers here then.
Gas companies sent hundreds of men, backhoes, dump trucks and skidsteers for an entire weekend last fall to "clean up" refused washed up on the river banks all along Rte 6 east of Wyalusing. They also paid employees overtime for many weekends and supplied equipment for the Wyalusing Creek clean up. No local organization did anything even close to a fraction of that.
Yes, employees from other areas can and will be hogs but they've met their match here in N.E. PA.
I'm saying --- check the facts of who takes responsibility and does the real work of clean up.
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Post by wentzler on May 1, 2013 20:07:18 GMT -5
A hog is a hog..no matter where the pen. Think bending over and picking up a piece of trash is beneath you? Try it a couple times, it's not so bad...and makes you feel good inside...where it really matters. Always bear in mind habits are passed down, and habits are contagious. That includes both the good ones...and the bad ones. Not my rule:) Can't remember the last time I came home from an outing in the mountains...didn't have at least a half bushel of trash, (not mine ...in the back of the truck. Now, even the grandkids snatch it up, too. My oldest son once offered, "it only takes little changes...to change a lot." It's one of the few sayings I had written on my shop wall I cut out and took with me before the demolition. One of the other ones was the younger son's advice..."never put off anything that takes less than two minutes" Getting out of the truck and picking up someone else's mess seldom takes two minutes And it makes the ride home, Golden. Also not my rule:)
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2013 7:15:29 GMT -5
Ed, picking trash is something I'm adept at and I continue to do that. My "limit" of deliberate trash collecting was reached when Kate's road monitor efforts grew to spending nearly all of Saturday mornings walking both sides of a 2-1/2 mile road to cleanup after her neighbors. It was "her" alone whilst those neighbors drove by and honked and waved. She started out using her car and having enough room in the trunk to put 4 or 5 bags. It got to "us" using my truck and 9 -12 bags. My whole point of a somewhat contentious position is the stark dishonesty I see constantly. We look at and judge the "outsiders" in order to claim our own virtuosity while we turn a blind eye to the constant existence of that which we condemn.......that has surrounded us for years and is growing in leaps and bounds. There is an effort to brother current responsible industry conduct to thieves and scum of the past. While there is a cancer of ignorance and disrespect in "OUR" society and it is now convenient to note that others, new to our midst, certainly must be the blame. This gas industry era has provided fodder to fuel every frustration with the past and to hatch speculation of falling skies. Seems people want to be soldiers but ain't quite sure who the enemy is. I don't believe these are big bad monsters on a mission to rape our earth and steal our wealth right from under our feet. It's business, based on providing profit to stockholders and very aware that conduct and responsibility will determine the degree of profit allowed. The precautions, engineering, safety measures, response to accidents and social-community involvement and benevolence is there for any who truly are interested, to see and have explained. We went, we asked and we learned a few things. Chesapeake allowed to to bring my camera along and photograph a section of well casing. I went there specifically to find out if my water wells were in danger when drilling was about to begin here. I'm told this casing exceeds federal and state requirements by 60%
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2013 12:04:41 GMT -5
Thought yinz might be interested in what T Boone Pickins has to say about fracking. finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/fracking-100-safe-t-boone-pickens-123113941.html?vp=1T. Boone Pickens, the billionaire founder, chairman and CEO of hedge fund BP Capital, may be one of the most outspoken insiders in the energy industry. Never one to shy away from controversy, Pickens eagerly discussed “fracking,” Oklahoma earthquakes and his decision to get out of wind energy in an interview at the Milken Institute Global Conference 2013. Last year the business magnate and entrepreneur said Charles and David Koch were the “biggest deterrent” to a national energy policy. Here’s what he told us this year at the Beverly Hilton: “Fracking” Pickens refutes charges that hydraulic fracturing or “fracking” has damaged the environment and caused earthquakes in Oklahoma, Ohio and Pennsylvsania. Pickens, who went on his first “frack” job in 1952, says he’s “had no environmental issues” with the more than 2,000 wells he’s fracked over the years. “You’re not damaging anything,” he declares. “Nobody gives any evidence you’re damaging anything.” read the rest of the article at the link above.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2013 16:52:32 GMT -5
I would encourage anyone who has a sincere concern to question Cabot, SWN, Chesapeake and others for seminar dates. There have been many public seminars and no stone ifs left unturned. At one event I saw a 300lb, toothless, dirty and stinky woman stand up and accuse an energy company of being "Communists" because they didn't share the wealth." Figure that one out!!!!! On the other side there are people who ask no questions. assume everything the companies do is perfect and praise them because they wash their trucks. Education is entertaining and valuable!
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 10:41:50 GMT -5
I live in the middle of a house mentality and it ain't Mexicans, Ricans, Africans or any other cans. It's good old North PA third generation welfare recipients. That is exactly the base of my gripes about the contradictions. My wife and I attended 9 straight monthly township meetings to try to get illegal dumps and roadside and front yard(s) trash cleaned up. Kate walked 5 miles of Pantherlick Road most weekends in summer picking up trash and I finally forbade her to do it again, (gotta get over there and take the sign with her name on it down). There weren't and still ain't no gas wells being serviced off that road. It was mostly trash chucked from the school buses but also satellite trash trucks that had only side boards and no tarps. In one township meeting a supervisor who had about had it with us pressuring them to enforce ordinances sated; "Hell Chesapeake will come and pick up all the trash if you say their trucks put it there. I swear on my mother's soul that is the mentality of these losers ---- look the other way until you get cornered and then shift the responsibility to some one else. Ed is probably familiar with the Forksville Inn. My wife and I went there about four years ago for dinner and the parking lot and roadside area was so stinking filthy that we turned around and drove 30 miles to Sonestwon instead. Was hardly any gas workers here then.Gas companies sent hundreds of men, backhoes, dump trucks and skidsteers for an entire weekend last fall to "clean up" refused washed up on the river banks all along Rte 6 east of Wyalusing. They also paid employees overtime for many weekends and supplied equipment for the Wyalusing Creek clean up. No local organization did anything even close to a fraction of that. Yes, employees from other areas can and will be hogs but they've met their match here in N.E. PA. I'm saying --- check the facts of who takes responsibility and does the real work of clean up. Who do you think it was that trashed the parking lot of the Forksville Inn? Last summer it was full of Chesapeake trucks carrying Messicans every day.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 7:31:22 GMT -5
I'm talking at least 4 years ago. It was a popular place with bikers and was well before the big influx of gas workers.
Fact is, it was a dump the last time I was there and --- imagine this; it ain't owned by the gas companies, it is owned by residents who don't bother to clean it up or monitor what goes on there.
We seem to be wearing blinders when it comes to looking at our own house. It is so easy to blame those for our own neighbors and family's lack of pride.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 9:02:05 GMT -5
I'm talking at least 4 years ago. It was a popular place with bikers and was well before the big influx of gas workers. Fact is, it was a dump the last time I was there and --- imagine this; it ain't owned by the gas companies, it is owned by residents who don't bother to clean it up or monitor what goes on there. We seem to be wearing blinders when it comes to looking at our own house. It is so easy to blame those for our own neighbors and family's lack of pride. OK. I was misunderstanding you. I thought you were there recently.
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