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Post by richg on Apr 9, 2013 20:27:21 GMT -5
Question for anybody,what happened to the blue pheasant program?They were supposed to live more in woodland habitat.I saw a few back when the program was started.
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Post by Dutch on Apr 9, 2013 20:47:44 GMT -5
Gentlemen, If Mr. Appleman decides to continue to post on this message board consider yourselves mighty lucky. His knowledge of the pheasant program is SECOND TO NONE! Like I mentioned earlier, there are very knowledgeable people that won't come anywhere near one of these sites, and that's a shame. Let's be honest, you boys were having a good time bashing the program, I noticed the same thing and logged in to try and shed some positive light. Quite frankly I don't know where Lynn get's his patience. Maybe this will be the site were some of those very special people feel comfortable enough to come and talk about hunting in the state of Pennsylvania. Wouldn't it be nice to talk to Shon Robbins ,"Pheasants Forever Biologists" Mr. Scott Klinger, or Colleen DeLong etc.. Hey we can all hope. I've met Colleen and was impressed in how she attempted to keep accurate records during the flushing survey. She made very attempt NOT to count flushed birds twice. As confusing as that was, she performed admirably. I had hoped Lynn would have stuck around to help educate me further, but he had other comittments. Colleen was a wealth of info and I tried to pick her brain when I had the chance. The issue of the the switchgrass was key. We walked areas of WSG's that had no switch component. We flushed no birds. When we hit the switch, we flushed birds. Altho the entire 400 acre farm was planted with the same mix, I think, there were some areas that were heavy with switch and others not. I noticed this in our own WSG fields at our club. Perhaps the switch settled to the bottom of the planter and most of it was seeded in small areas before it ran out. I don'd know. I do know that without a higher percentage of switch, this program will fail. They are taking steps to add more switch to already planted fields. Their idea of how to plant it is sound, altho, they should alos look into frost seeding of switch, but now that they know the solution, it will be a while before they can get it fixed. Perhaps this should be treated as a laboratory and this program given a good deal more time. I am still not comfortable with this program in totality, but will be glad to give it more time.
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Post by Dutch on Apr 9, 2013 20:48:38 GMT -5
And I do wish that Lynn and Fldbred remain here to help educate, without rancor, those that visit this site.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2013 10:23:17 GMT -5
Gentlemen, If Mr. Appleman decides to continue to post on this message board consider yourselves mighty lucky. His knowledge of the pheasant program is SECOND TO NONE! Like I mentioned earlier, there are very knowledgeable people that won't come anywhere near one of these sites, and that's a shame. Let's be honest, you boys were having a good time bashing the program, I noticed the same thing and logged in to try and shed some positive light. Quite frankly I don't know where Lynn get's his patience. Maybe this will be the site were some of those very special people feel comfortable enough to come and talk about hunting in the state of Pennsylvania. Wouldn't it be nice to talk to Shon Robbins ,"Pheasants Forever Biologists" Mr. Scott Klinger, or Colleen DeLong etc.. Hey we can all hope. Guess I should consider myself so very blessed if Mr. Appleman so graciously continues to post here. FWIW....Ive never heard of this individual but am most willing to entertain whut he has to offer here if such can be conveyed in a respectful/cordial manner! Ah yes, if Lynn would only continue to bless us with his presence! ;D
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Post by bawanajim on Apr 10, 2013 11:10:21 GMT -5
Heres what 60 acres of switch grass looks like when they are done, I took this picture yesterday.
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Post by johns on Apr 10, 2013 11:19:44 GMT -5
I was leaving my IWLA meeting last eveniong, just before dark and saw a beautiful long tailed cockbird sneaking very slowly out of the tree line at the end of one of our ponds. I stopped to watch him till it was prety much too dark to see. We have roosters on our club ground every spring, hold overs from the ones we release to hunt.
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Post by Dutch on Apr 10, 2013 11:21:06 GMT -5
But no hens to mate with, and the roosters also seem to disappear, in time.
Had a dozen cockbirds just east of Lititz here over the winter. They are now gone, last I heard.
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Post by dougell on Apr 10, 2013 16:59:34 GMT -5
Question for anybody,what happened to the blue pheasant program?They were supposed to live more in woodland habitat.I saw a few back when the program was started. Rich,I believe they were the Sishuan or whatever they're called.In any event,I think that program went over like a turd in a pinch bowl.
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Post by Dutch on Apr 10, 2013 19:15:38 GMT -5
That was in the early 90's and it was found that those birds nested in the same areas that ringnecks did, thus, a failure.
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Post by Roosterslammer on Apr 10, 2013 22:37:19 GMT -5
I would like to give a comprehensive post on the pheasant plan but I have been really busy. In the next few days, I will "bless you all" with my thoughts on the wild pheasant plan. I know people have some questions but we have put a lot of thought and time into every step of this plan from the release of wild birds to the harvest of a wild population. In the end, the PGC will make the final decision but they have requested our thoughts on most issues.
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Post by bawanajim on Apr 10, 2013 23:09:58 GMT -5
Question for anybody,what happened to the blue pheasant program?They were supposed to live more in woodland habitat.I saw a few back when the program was started. Rich,I believe they were the Sishuan or whatever they're called.In any event,I think that program went over like a turd in a pinch bowl. The plan was set up to fail, they brought wild birds from China here and then bred them with our ditch chickens,WTH. Then kept them in pens and acted like they were wild,it was dumber than dirt idea, but it did fed a whole lot of red tailed hawks. The flushing surveys were nothing but feeding frenzies.
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Post by Dutch on Apr 11, 2013 6:14:41 GMT -5
I believe the Sichuans actually came from somewhere in Michigan, not China.
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Post by bawanajim on Apr 11, 2013 6:37:25 GMT -5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SichuanSichuan is a province in China, the birds thrive there even though the locals prey heavily on their eggs. They were thought to roost in trees at night, which they do in China where rats are very prevalent. Here they slept on the ground and in the winter they spent the days setting around wet areas and quickly became food for the avian predators that flooded the areas where the birds were stocked. Breeding them with our hens did nothing to help their chance for survival.
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Post by Dutch on Apr 11, 2013 10:29:48 GMT -5
Sustainable pheasant populations are dependent upon adult survival, nest success, and brood survival. All three of these parameters must improve for pheasant populations to maintain themselves. Improvements to winter thermal cover, nesting habitat, and brood-rearing habitat are required for wild, self-sustaining pheasant populations. Given the current habitat conditions, estimates of brood survival from the literature, and survival rates and nest success estimated from game farm-raised pheasants in our research, we expected pheasant populations to decrease over time. Although wild pheasant survival and nesting success should be significantly better than that of the farm-raised pheasants used in our research (Leif 1994), we believe the inadequate nesting habitat and winter thermal cover on these study areas prohibited populations from reaching study goals. Substantial improvements to farmland habitat were needed to meet or even approach the objectives and goals of this project. We attempted to determine if 1 subspecies of pheasant was better adapted to the existing habitat in Pennsylvania for hopeful reintroduction of wild populations into suitable areas of the Commonwealth. Habitat selection did not differ significantly between subspecies. We conclude that it is not the type of pheasant that will dictate whether or not self-sustaining pheasant populations will become established. The quality of the habitat will determine the sustainability of populations. Both subspecies require farmland habitat types for survival. Low quality farmland habitat will not support either subspecies. Food is available in sufficient quantities, and did not seem to be limiting in any area except possibly Erie County. The limiting factor for any pheasant in Pennsylvania seems to be adequate cover, especially winter thermal cover and undisturbed nesting cover. Cover adjacent to feeding areas is vital for protection against predators and as thermal protection during the winter. Good winter cover should include scrub-shrub wetlands and low-branching conifers. Winter cover is most limiting during severely cold, snowy winters like that of 1993-1994. During mild winters, this thermal cover is not as limiting. 52 In a literature review, Robertson (1996) reported that nesting cover does not limit abundance of ring-necked pheasants in North America. We conclude, however, that agriculturally undisturbed nesting cover is critical for pheasant survival in Pennsylvania. Given adequate thermal cover adjacent to feeding areas and undisturbed grassland for nesting, pheasants in these study areas could potentially establish wild populations that reach or approach study goals. Regardless of subspecies, pheasants survived and bred most successfully in areas that maintained an interspersion of agriculture and thick cover (whether grass, brush, or shrub) throughout the year. Future work should concentrate effort on habitat management in the study areas. We have cooperation and interest of many landowners for restoration of pheasants. Many of the study area landowners are receptive to habitat improvement projects, especially if the Commission provides some assistance. We recommend the next step for the pheasant restoration project, therefore, to be the development and implementation of a comprehensive habitat management plan. Establishment of winter thermal cover by planting clumps of conifers and brush could be implemented with landowner permission. A warm-season grass restoration program would benefit nesting pheasants as well as many other species of wildlife that depend on undisturbed grassland for nesting. Establishing wild pheasant populations with pen-reared stock is difficult due their low survival and productivity. Another option for establishing wild populations is a trap and transfer program. Wild pheasants have higher survival and productivity than pen-reared pheasants (Leif 1994). Although some logistical problems do exist, including finding a reliable source of wild birds, it is an option worthy of consideration. We cannot maintain pheasant populations at historic levels under current agricultural practices. Future restoration efforts for pheasants could use lessons from this research as a starting point. Survival, habitat selection, and nesting success have been measured, along with their correlating habitat composition. This provides a model when evaluating other land to prioritize habitat improvements. Although more research is needed on pheasants, we suggest that future efforts be directed toward habitat improvement, since some critical life history requirements are severely deficient in Pennsylvania. We also need to idle farmland on a large scale using federal set aside programs such as the Conservation Reserve Program and Conservation Reserve Enhancement Program. These programs could offer our last real hope for any chance of pheasant habitat restoration on a large enough scale in Pennsylvania. There is no best pheasant that will adapt to our current agricultural conditions. We must not waste resources seeking a better-adapted pheasant, but focus on large-scale habitat and land use improvements. Habitat is where it’s at! Acknowledgements
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Post by Dutch on Apr 11, 2013 10:30:49 GMT -5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SichuanSichuan is a province in China, the birds thrive there even though the locals prey heavily on their eggs. They were thought to roost in trees at night, which they do in China where rats are very prevalent. Here they slept on the ground and in the winter they spent the days setting around wet areas and quickly became food for the avian predators that flooded the areas where the birds were stocked. Breeding them with our hens did nothing to help their chance for survival. What I meant was that the Sichuans we used, came from a sourse in Michigan.
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Post by johns on Apr 11, 2013 11:02:29 GMT -5
They came from the Mich F&G and were true Sichuans hatch from eggs from China. The PGC then raised and bred the birds and gathered their own eggs for birds to release if memeroy serves me.
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Post by Dutch on Apr 11, 2013 11:15:54 GMT -5
There is a 55 page report from the PGC on the sichuan pheasant debacle.
Wish I could link it, can't.
Google is a wonderful thing.
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Post by bawanajim on Apr 11, 2013 11:17:12 GMT -5
They were beautiful birds, a bit smaller than ringnecks and without the white neck bands. And mother nature was no help either the second or third year of stockings we had a butt load of snow all winter long and those birds flocked up around seaps and water holes where they were easy pickins for preditors. The birds in mercer county faired a little better but not much. They were strong flyers but just to dumb to survive and reproduce.
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Post by Dutch on Apr 11, 2013 12:08:58 GMT -5
According to the conclusion by the PGC, there was just not enough habitat (cover) for them.
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Post by richg on Apr 11, 2013 13:58:14 GMT -5
Question for anybody,what happened to the blue pheasant program?They were supposed to live more in woodland habitat.I saw a few back when the program was started. Rich,I believe they were the Sishuan or whatever they're called.In any event,I think that program went over like a turd in a pinch bowl. I wanted to get one of those buggers mounted,they were neat.I saw a few but not hunting.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2013 14:03:22 GMT -5
I haven't a clue what you people are talking about.
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Post by dougell on Apr 11, 2013 14:05:35 GMT -5
Several years ago,the PGC started a program with a different type of pheasant.It was supposed to roost in trees and prefer a more woodland habitat than the trditional ringneck.It was a noble effort but the program tanked.
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Post by Dutch on Apr 11, 2013 14:46:41 GMT -5
Several? 20 years now Doug...... time flies. LOL
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2013 16:24:04 GMT -5
I would like to give a comprehensive post on the pheasant plan but I have been really busy. In the next few days, I will "bless you all" with my thoughts on the wild pheasant plan. I know people have some questions but we have put a lot of thought and time into every step of this plan from the release of wild birds to the harvest of a wild population. In the end, the PGC will make the final decision but they have requested our thoughts on most issues. Look forward to learning more roosterslammer!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2013 8:17:05 GMT -5
Several years ago,the PGC started a program with a different type of pheasant.It was supposed to roost in trees and prefer a more woodland habitat than the trditional ringneck.It was a noble effort but the program tanked. I remember it. I'm of the opinion that the glory days of Pheasants in PA will forever be a thing of the past. There'll be some local successes here and there but by and large Pheasant hunting will mean stocked birds. I don't think that will ever change. There is an SGL here in Colebrook that is managed strictly for Pheasants and even there they don't carry over from year to year. Sure I heard a cockbird cackle there the other day but by summer there won't be any. South Dakota on the other hand is amazing. I never imagined that many pheasants flying around until I went there.
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