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Post by Dutch on Mar 19, 2013 5:26:29 GMT -5
Driving thru Middle Creek the other day, this guy decided we didn't look like a Redtail. LOL With all the hedgerows and cover there, this would be one place where pheasants could survive, I would think.
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Post by bushmaster on Mar 19, 2013 5:34:51 GMT -5
Looks like an invasive species to me! China right?
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Post by tcaddis on Mar 19, 2013 7:39:31 GMT -5
Driving thru Middle Creek the other day, this guy decided we didn't look like a Redtail. LOL With all the hedgerows and cover there, this would be one place where pheasants could survive, I would think. Dutch, I have seen clutches of young inside the propagation area too. Plenty of cover and breeding happening.
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Post by davetm on Mar 19, 2013 7:47:40 GMT -5
I remember hunting something like that... ...I think... ....30 years ago???
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Post by Dutch on Mar 19, 2013 10:33:25 GMT -5
Tcaddis, thats cool. Gal and I were saying that Middle Creek has better habitat than the WPRA we were on. Glad to see reproduction there!!!
I remember driving thru there in the early 70's, before it was open to hunting. Man, counted 75 cockbirds one night! Incredible.
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Post by tcaddis on Mar 19, 2013 11:19:55 GMT -5
It's also a controlled area. No hunting and never would be any hunting. No hand wringing over it being private ground. I am sure it would have been more productive area than Somerset.
I was told when back when on the other site that the area was being looked at. For whatever that is worth.
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Post by tcaddis on Mar 19, 2013 11:20:28 GMT -5
Also, I bet that place is loaded with woodcock.
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Post by Dutch on Mar 19, 2013 12:05:26 GMT -5
It sure would be great for woodcock!
I've expressed my opinion on the WPRA many times. While it's neat to see wild birds, the results are not reproduceable. Plus, it is only on private lands, which means, even if hunting is opened, it's going to be very much limited only to family and friends of those that are in tight with landowners.
It will be a private hunting experience, paid for with public funds.
When I drove away from the flushing survey the other week, in less than a half mile, I was out in sterile farmland that could not support a pheasant.
It was an oasis in a desert.
I wish it would work on a large scale, but without CREP, and enrolled farms, it never will.
As a sportsman, I'd rather see the PGC dedicate that money to helping grouse and woodcock, and funding more initiatives in that direction.
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Post by tcaddis on Mar 19, 2013 12:44:41 GMT -5
Now, now! Talk like that will cause a stir.
I'd love to do a woodcock count inside that place. Of course using a broke dog to do it. Banding would be interesting too.
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Post by Dutch on Mar 19, 2013 13:44:25 GMT -5
I generally cause a stir with my opinions.
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Post by galthatfishes on Mar 21, 2013 21:40:42 GMT -5
Good thread! I too would like Middle Creek to be a propgation area for pheasant. Then perhaps in a few years we could use them to trap/transfer to other areas. Plus, they are just pretty.
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Post by tcaddis on Mar 22, 2013 7:43:26 GMT -5
That would make to much sense. On top of that, no one with the private land that birds are on now would be able to shoot them when the area was open.
I mean. A propagation area, meant for propagation, but not good enough for some wild birds to propagate. PF and people smart than I know best though.
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Post by Dutch on Mar 22, 2013 9:35:33 GMT -5
Would be nice to see a few from Central Susquehanna released in Middle Creek, just to see what happens.
Of course, years ago, the manager of MC told me the reason there were no pheasants there was because they did not manage for pheasants. I'd say that they have far more pheasant habitat there than they have in many years. Many WSG fields, LOTS of hedgerows, which is missing up at Central Sus.
Anyway, would be cool to see the results.
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Post by tcaddis on Mar 22, 2013 11:38:13 GMT -5
I agree.
They used prescribed fire on one field along the tour route two years ago. It amazing what a fire can do to rejuvenate some habitat.
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Post by Dutch on Mar 22, 2013 14:11:14 GMT -5
Burn baby burn!
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Post by dougell on Mar 22, 2013 14:23:49 GMT -5
I saw a couple ringnecks out and about 2 weekends ago near New Bethlehem.I was kind of impressed until I found out it was a regulated shooting ground.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2013 14:28:22 GMT -5
I heard one today making that call that no matter how hard I try I can't reenact it. I see more of those critters living in town then when I lived in the country.
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Post by Bill on Mar 22, 2013 17:20:09 GMT -5
Kind of disappointed. I was expecting maybe a Dodo or a Passenger Pigeon. lol
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Post by Roosterslammer on Apr 2, 2013 22:11:15 GMT -5
It sure would be great for woodcock! I've expressed my opinion on the WPRA many times. While it's neat to see wild birds, the results are not reproduceable. Plus, it is only on private lands, which means, even if hunting is opened, it's going to be very much limited only to family and friends of those that are in tight with landowners. It will be a private hunting experience, paid for with public funds. When I drove away from the flushing survey the other week, in less than a half mile, I was out in sterile farmland that could not support a pheasant. It was an oasis in a desert. I wish it would work on a large scale, but without CREP, and enrolled farms, it never will. As a sportsman, I'd rather see the PGC dedicate that money to helping grouse and woodcock, and funding more initiatives in that direction. Dutch has become the expert on WPRAs?? Talk about the blind leading the blind. He drives through a 100,000 acre WPRA and thinks he has seen all the available habitat. I just joined the board today. Dutch, this is your notice that your BS on WPRAs will no longer go uncorrected. You can run but you can't hide ;D
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Post by Dutch on Apr 3, 2013 4:01:17 GMT -5
We'll see in 10 years.
Can pheasants survive in this state, in huntable numbers, without CREP? If they can, where is that now happening?
While food and cover crews are working on pheasant projects, what is NOT getting done on SGL's that will benefit all hunters?
If we expand and have more WPRA's, how many more food and cover crews will be taken out of service spending time on this program, to the dertiment of all other hunters?
Are more WPRA's in the works? Where and how many?
If this limited effort has taken close to $2,000,000, how much will further expansion cost?
How will hunting pressure be handled on these private lands? Are they farm game co-op? Who will get to hunt, if populations can ever take hunting pressure?
Just some of my thoughts.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2013 6:24:46 GMT -5
All good valid points Dutch, especially in these financial times. IMO, the bulk of the funding should come from private sources as I doubt the average public hunter will reap the reward.
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Post by TusseyMtman on Apr 3, 2013 7:02:23 GMT -5
Too much cost and effort to promote an exotic species. There are plenty of private shooting preserves already.
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Post by bud16057 on Apr 3, 2013 7:02:36 GMT -5
I tend to agree with Dutch on this. Since a good portion of the CREP program is funded with grant money from the govt, it ends up that the public is financing projects on private ground.
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Post by Dutch on Apr 3, 2013 8:20:19 GMT -5
Will we sell chances at a pheasant hunting permit for these areas, similar to the elk tags?
If that were the case, then some income goes to the PGC.
The other thing, if these places just barely make it, and they keep the WPRA going, no stocked birds will be put in these area, so, area hunters, lose an opportunity.
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Post by Roosterslammer on Apr 3, 2013 11:16:57 GMT -5
What a selfish bunch. You don't need to gage everything on how it affects you.
Here are some questions for you.
1. Should we have some wild trout streams even though they alone can never handle the pressure of all trout fisherman and must be supplemented with stocked fish?
2. Since everyone in the state will never be able to hunt elk, should we never have brought them here?
3. CREP is a conservation program providing habitat for all types of wildlife and is primarily a water quality program. Since you can't hunt on CREP without permission, would you be happier if it was corn and beans like the rest of the fields in PA?
4. If two million dollars has been spent on the wild pheasant plan, somebody needs to go back to accounting school. The money the PGC has spent on "wild pheasants" has been for 4 biologists (who don't just work on pheasant stuff) and some radio transmitters and receivers. The bulk of the wild pheasant costs have come from the Mellon Foundation and PF Chapters. Our chapter alone has spent more than 200K on HABITAT and not pheasants. The PGC has also spent money on grassland HABITAT that benefits all grassland species many of which are threatened and endangered in PA. The only money spent on "pheasants" was Mellon money used to trap and transfer the wild birds here. Since you don't hunt grassland wildlife, should we just forget about them?
We now know what needs to be done to increase the wild pheasant population to the thousands and we will get it done even though some who know little about it feel the need to express their opinions.
The idea that PGC crews are wasting time working on habitat of any kind shows how clueless Dutch is on this subject. If more habitat is being done for grassland species (not hardly) than woodland species, it must be because more people are requesting it. Like maybe some of the 80,000 pheasant hunters in the state.
The idea that the local WPRA hunters are suffering from a lack of hunting game farm birds is laughable. Poor things, they only have the rest of the whole state to hunt game farm birds. You're really scraping the bottom of the barrel Dutch.
How is hunter access pheasant hunting handled in SD or any other wild pheasant state. There is public ground hunting and private ground hunting. Gee, I think it works that way for deer too.
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