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Post by Dutch on Apr 3, 2013 12:22:00 GMT -5
Lynn, I asked Carl Roe how much was spent on the WPRA's, as it had supposedly been a closely held secret. He told me it was no secret and that he mentioned it publicly before. His answer was slightly under $2 million.
Please, don't come on here using terms like "clueless" towards people. No reason to go on the attack or into attack mode. We can discuss issues here.
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Post by dougell on Apr 3, 2013 13:55:10 GMT -5
Yeah,Johns is actually a kinder more gentle sole here.Everytime he disagrees with me here he just bends me over and spanks me instead of giving me the usual head butt.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2013 14:07:40 GMT -5
Lynn, I asked Carl Roe how much was spent on the WPRA's, as it had supposedly been a closely held secret. He told me it was no secret and that he mentioned it publicly before. His answer was slightly under $2 million. Please, don't come on here using terms like "clueless" towards people. No reason to go on the attack or into attack mode. We can discuss issues here. agreed! To be honest why is so much work being done to bring an animal into the state that isn't a native species? Can't do that with anything else.
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Post by dougell on Apr 3, 2013 14:11:58 GMT -5
Well,it's a noble project if it works.The put and take stocking bothers me but improving the habitat to have a self-sustaining population would be awesome.Truthfully,I'm more in favor of money spent trying to do that than letting a bunch of tame ditch chickens loose.
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Post by Roosterslammer on Apr 3, 2013 18:18:45 GMT -5
Brad, how did you know it was me? ;D Sorry to use the word clueless. You're not clueless, just very lacking in information on this program. I had hoped your visit during the flushing survey would have made you a little better informed. I was right, you are a little better informed. Very little. (is that better than clueless) I have batted this with you back and forth on HPA for way too long and I won't do it hear. We will get it done but it might be five more years before it offers people the kind of hunting we think is possible. You said it couldn't be done and we have two farms with a total of over 200 pheasants We also know why they are there and not other places and we are full speed ahead on putting that kind of habitat on other farms in the area. Most of our habitat work this year and the next few years will be on PPL ground which is open to public hunting. From what you say about Middleburg, we should be looking at a trap and transfer of birds on that property. Pheasants are prolific breeders in good habitat and if you provide standing winter cover so they survive (switchgrass) they can take care of the rest. I know where the 2 million dollar figure came from and it's not accurate. Putting that price tag on the pheasant program is like taking all the money that was spent on buying game lands and saying all that money was spent on deer. Fuzzy math is what Ronnie Reagan called it. They should be spending money on grassland habitat, that's what they do. Some of that money went to add hunter access acres in the WPRA so people can have access when the birds become available as well as provide grassland habitat. The PGC cannot spend money on private lands programs unless the ground is in hunter access.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2013 18:34:56 GMT -5
Why not put the effort into the quail which is a native species and then move on to pheasants?
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Post by Dutch on Apr 3, 2013 18:51:26 GMT -5
Lynn, I didn't say you can't raise birds there, I am saying it is not reproduceable over a large area, without CREP. Outside the 100,000 acres, how muh CREP is there, in large blocks. Inside the WPRA, how many acres of CREP are there? BTW, yer easy to spot, whether on a message board or in person.
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Post by Dutch on Apr 3, 2013 19:01:51 GMT -5
Lynn, I know you want 60% switch or better, and I agree, but, CREP tells you the mix you have to buy, and the mixes on our CREP do not come anywhere near 60%, more like 15% or less, IIRC.
Hpw are you squaring that with the Conservation District?
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Post by Roosterslammer on Apr 3, 2013 20:06:55 GMT -5
Not correct Dutch. An approved CREP mix is 10lb/ acre switch and partridge pea. The partridge pea will get killed spraying for invasive but it make biologists happy. The mixes here all called for switch but the herbicide they used (plateau) killed it before it came up. We got the reseeding thing all figured out and by staying within CREP guidelines.
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Post by Roosterslammer on Apr 3, 2013 20:17:43 GMT -5
There are other counties with high crop acres. Bradford is number one and there other counties with more than Columbia or Montour. We have enough crep on these 3 counties to keep us busy for years. The only thing keeping it from going on other areas is proving it here. Unfortunately it takes switchgrass 3 years to provide the cover we need. It will take 10 to 15 years to have large scale wild bird hunting but here and a few other places it will be 5 years. Both of us are young enough to see that day. Hopefully my grandsons will have great wild pheasant hunting.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2013 20:20:34 GMT -5
Lynn, I asked Carl Roe how much was spent on the WPRA's, as it had supposedly been a closely held secret. He told me it was no secret and that he mentioned it publicly before. His answer was slightly under $2 million. Please, don't come on here using terms like "clueless" towards people. No reason to go on the attack or into attack mode. We can discuss issues here. Amen Dutch! You & I don't see "eye to eye" on all issues but keep our commuiques above immature attack like modes. Such invariably shows weakness in throwers positon plus sometimes a tad of immaturity!
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Post by Roosterslammer on Apr 3, 2013 20:23:31 GMT -5
Lynn, I asked Carl Roe how much was spent on the WPRA's, as it had supposedly been a closely held secret. He told me it was no secret and that he mentioned it publicly before. His answer was slightly under $2 million. Please, don't come on here using terms like "clueless" towards people. No reason to go on the attack or into attack mode. We can discuss issues here. Amen Dutch! You & I don't see "eye to eye" on all issues but keep our commuiques above immature attack like modes. Such invariably shows weakness in throwers positon plus sometimes a tad of immaturity! Loggy, interesting how you can comment on bad form while taking a stab yourself.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2013 20:35:55 GMT -5
Amen Dutch! You & I don't see "eye to eye" on all issues but keep our commuiques above immature attack like modes. Such invariably shows weakness in throwers positon plus sometimes a tad of immaturity! Loggy, interesting how you can comment on bad form while taking a stab yourself. Glad your are at least astute enuff to find my observations as "interesting". There is a way to respectfully debate/share issues here & there is a way not to. You for some unknown reason seem to want to entertain the later.
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Post by Dutch on Apr 3, 2013 20:54:25 GMT -5
It's ok guys, this ain't nuttin' to be getting excited about.
I'm allowed an opinion, as is Lynn.
I don't see this going real far, he does. he owes me a beer at some point in the future, and he knows that. Just kidding Lynn.
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Post by Roosterslammer on Apr 3, 2013 21:14:41 GMT -5
That's right Loggy, Dutch is a big boy, he doesn't need any help from you to try and make me look bad for calling him clueless while you call me immature. I'm sorry, I forgot which one of us was taking the high ground?
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Post by Roosterslammer on Apr 3, 2013 21:19:45 GMT -5
Stroupy, I'm all in for a quail program. No need to stop the pheasant plan to do it. The pheasant plan is at the stage of being a habitat issue. Most of the monitoring manpower on the wpras could transition to quail.
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Post by Dutch on Apr 3, 2013 21:32:04 GMT -5
Now wait a darned second, be careful who you refer to as a "big boy". You ain't no Tinkerbell type Mr Appelman! ;D
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2013 4:08:55 GMT -5
Stroupy, I'm all in for a quail program. No need to stop the pheasant plan to do it. The pheasant plan is at the stage of being a habitat issue. Most of the monitoring manpower on the wpras could transition to quail. Whats the could is should be trying to bring quail back before it brings in a bird not native to the state imo.
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Post by Dutch on Apr 4, 2013 11:12:50 GMT -5
Roosterslammer, would you be up for giving me a tour of that area up there so I could better understand the efforts and situation?
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Post by Roosterslammer on Apr 4, 2013 19:48:09 GMT -5
Dutch, anytime you want. Our crowing routes start this month and you can ride along with me some morning if you want. Sunday mornings are the best but it means early rising. We start 1/2 before sunrise. We can just do a tour if you want too.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 8:12:00 GMT -5
That's right Loggy, Dutch is a big boy, he doesn't need any help from you to try and make me look bad for calling him clueless while you call me immature. I'm sorry, I forgot which one of us was taking the high ground? Apparently neither of you are. You join a forum and come out swingin' with your first couple posts? Did Chickenkicker send you over here to disrupt?
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Post by Dutch on Apr 6, 2013 9:29:10 GMT -5
Mike, Lynn and his felow PF members have spent a HUGE amount of time on these projects, and money, I understand why they become defensive, I probably would to if questioned.
Just want a healthy debate on the future of these projects and if there is enough habitat on the ground and planned for the future to increase the bird population to huntable numbers.
I also just want to know if this is reproducable outside these area.
We have 2 WPRA's that are failures, and 2 that are doing "well".
I just want to know if the future holds promise or not. If not, when do we pull the plug?
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Post by TusseyMtman on Apr 6, 2013 12:59:26 GMT -5
There are plenty of private shooting preserves around. This is a pipe dream of a select few, some within the PGC. How is the hunting going to be controlled? A lottery like the elk hunts? Will there be high priced pheasant guides, with access to the properties the "wild" bird are on? I'm being serious. They are not a native species. There is no reason to have them other than to shoot them. The elk may not be technically native, either. But, they are close to it and they carry tremendous value in terms of tourism, environmental awareness, ect.
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Post by Fldbred on Apr 6, 2013 15:25:58 GMT -5
Well it's a dream alright, and one that is coming true. It seems like the same people are against it here on this Forum and no amount of debate will change their mind, and that is fine. I am glad to see the program gaining momentum, the vast majority of the people I talk to are very excited and grateful that we have a Game Commission that understands what small game hunting means to us, and their focus is not just pheasants. If you hunt small game in Pa. especially with a bird dog and look around at the surrounding States you can see how lucky we are, and as hard as it is for some to believe the future looks even better.
Dutch, yes there are areas outside of the WPRA's that have wild pheasant. The Ringneck was never exterminated from Pennsylvania. I have never stopped hunting wild birds, although some years I count myself lucky to harvest a bird or two!
Good luck with this new Web Site! I would love to see it become a place for people to find out important news and information, without the attacks and bickering over what species one chooses to hunt. Let's keep our fingers crossed!
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Post by TusseyMtman on Apr 6, 2013 15:48:03 GMT -5
It won't work on any meaningful scale. I don't see the PA agricultural industry reverting back to 1950's practices. And, I don't see the predators going away. You may do it in small areas in federal gov't programs. But, it is not something that will have any meaningful impact on small game hunting on the state level. I still maintain the entire PGC pheasant program should be abolished and the business of providing shooting opportunities of an exotic species should be left to the private shooting preserves who can provide the experience at a far lower cost per bird.
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