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Post by fleroo on Dec 14, 2021 12:02:31 GMT -5
NEVER ! There's about 360,000 archery permits sold in 2020. 150,000 MUZZLELOADER (which includes inlines). Of that, how many are flint only hunters ?
Scoped X-Bows always fire. The Non-scoped Flintlocks sometimes fire. Scoped X-Bows normally hit their mark. The Non-scoped Flintlocks rarely hit their mark.
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Post by dougl on Dec 14, 2021 13:03:53 GMT -5
A better solution is shorten archery by two weeks and give those two weeks in November to flint lock hunters , still low impact so all is good See....I don't agree that an early Flint season would be as "low impact" as the post Christmas season we now have. I think the biggest reason we have a low impact post Christmas is not only because of the firearm in use, but the fact that deer are at their most "skittished" awareness of humans in the woods. The simple crack of a small branch at 100 yards is enough to send them running. They won't even stick around to see what made the branch crack. An early Flintlock season would have as much or more of an impact as the current last two weeks of archery does now. I don't believe that for a second.For years I helped administer a proficiency test for archery and flintlocks.Most of the archery(above 80% and growing)hunters used crossbows.The test was simple,three out of 5 shots in a 6" circle at 20 yards with a bow/crossbow and the same with a flintlock at 30 yards.Shooting sticks were allowed for both.You did see guys fail with a crossbow but more failed with a flintlock than passed.Yes,we have some dedicated proficent guys with flintlocks but for the most part,the vast majority of people have no business shooting at a live animal with one.Crossbows are a far more effective weapon in the hands of the average hunter.No debate about it.
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rs
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Post by rs on Dec 14, 2021 16:18:47 GMT -5
I would be a proponent of returning the length of archery season back to the month of October and making it antlerless only.
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Post by Loggy on Dec 14, 2021 17:01:18 GMT -5
I would be a proponent of returning the length of archery season back to the month of October and making it antlerless only. I agree on returning Archery Season to the month of October as it was for many years but for both buck & doe.
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rs
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JEEPERS !
Dec 14, 2021 17:21:09 GMT -5
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Post by rs on Dec 14, 2021 17:21:09 GMT -5
I would be a proponent of returning the length of archery season back to the month of October and making it antlerless only. I agree on returning Archery Season to the month of October as it was for many years but for both buck & doe. I would only agree with buck & doe, if it were limited to longbows, recurves, compound bows and cross bows for physically disabled hunters. I don’t think in principle we should be removing a large number of bucks prior or during the rut.
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 14, 2021 17:31:21 GMT -5
I don’t think in principle we should be removing a large number of bucks prior or during the rut. Some the greatest destination states for whitetails and muleys take the bulk of their antlered harvest prior to or during the rut. It has had zero effect on the resource just as it would here. And yes, archery accounts for 50% of the harvest in some.
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Post by bushmaster on Dec 14, 2021 19:15:31 GMT -5
I kind of like my bows. You guys are lobbying to take my days away. Quit, that's not nice!
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rs
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Dec 14, 2021 19:30:40 GMT -5
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Post by rs on Dec 14, 2021 19:30:40 GMT -5
I don’t think in principle we should be removing a large number of bucks prior or during the rut. Some the greatest destination states for whitetails and muleys take the bulk of their antlered harvest prior to or during the rut. It has had zero effect on the resource just as it would here. And yes, archery accounts for 50% of the harvest in some. Many would consider Iowa a destination state. In 2020-2021 they harvested 14,010 antlered archery deer. 58,291 total all seasons antlered deer. 24% archery buck harvest. They limit non-resident archery by permit, no cross bows in archery, gun season is shotgun and straight wall rifle only. Just because the PGC commissioners approve regulations does not mean it is not affecting the resource.
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 14, 2021 19:35:12 GMT -5
Many would consider Iowa a destination state. In 2020-2021 they harvested 14,010 antlered archery deer. 58,291 total all seasons antlered deer. 24% archery buck harvest. They limit non-resident archery by permit, no cross bows in archery, gun season is shotgun and straight wall rifle only. Yes, Iowa is pretty restrictive on many levels. Last year Ohio took 46,000 bucks in archery and 80,000 total bucks. Percent by archery 57%. A destination state for whitetail hunters. Breeding dates have not changed. Populations are currently steady to growing in some units. What evidence is there that the resource is being negatively affected?
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rs
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JEEPERS !
Dec 14, 2021 20:11:45 GMT -5
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Post by rs on Dec 14, 2021 20:11:45 GMT -5
Many would consider Iowa a destination state. In 2020-2021 they harvested 14,010 antlered archery deer. 58,291 total all seasons antlered deer. 24% archery buck harvest. They limit non-resident archery by permit, no cross bows in archery, gun season is shotgun and straight wall rifle only. Yes, Iowa is pretty restrictive on many levels. Last year Ohio took 46,000 bucks in archery and 80,000 total bucks. Percent by archery 57%. A destination state for whitetail hunters. Breeding dates have not changed. Populations are currently steady to growing in some units. What evidence is there that the resource is being negatively affected? Well I would need to see the latest fetus aging data set. I thought they discontinued aging road killed fetuses awhile back, maybe not. The sample size would be helpful too. Also, the reporting rate of antlered archery harvests would be interesting as well, along with the recovery rate of buck hit by archers.
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Post by fleroo on Dec 15, 2021 9:05:37 GMT -5
Fair = Balanced = Equitable.
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 15, 2021 9:07:04 GMT -5
If I recall, something like 47% of the antlered harvest in Illinois is archery.
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Post by fleroo on Dec 15, 2021 9:18:30 GMT -5
Shouldn't you be tuggin' on a knee, or yankin' on a shoulder somewhere ?
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Post by timberdoodle on Dec 15, 2021 9:21:46 GMT -5
Is that like pull my finger?
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Post by fleroo on Dec 15, 2021 9:27:53 GMT -5
Funniest Grandma to Granddaughter trick EVER !
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Post by fleroo on Dec 15, 2021 9:47:12 GMT -5
Let's be clear. PA is NOT a destination whitetail state for archery, nor is it a destination state for SLAMMERS, HAMMERS, FROGS and TOADS. PA WAS a destination state for a million plus hunters, due to it being a TRADITIONAL (there's that naughty "T" word) rifle hunting state, with endless forests to hunt, that were dotted full of hunting camps. Fast forward to 2021. The recent incarnations of the PGC's BOC's, have been doing their very best to sh!t all over that naughty "T" word. Examples: A). Putting the nuts to endless numbers of camp owners and non-resident hunters, by moving the starting date so close to Thanksgiving, DESPITE overwhelming numbers showing it was not wanted by the hunting community (social), and certainly not needed for herd management (biological). B). Increasing the archery season length to SEVEN (7) weeks. Including prime rut. Shifting away from that "T" word, and giving riflemen, the very root of the PA sportsmen, nothing at all. The PA BOC shouldn't be looking to Illinois, Iowa, Ohio for our whitetail deer management model. There is very little commonality between we and they in that regard.
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Post by dougl on Dec 15, 2021 10:36:50 GMT -5
Ohio has a bow season that never ends for several months and a one week shotgun season.Talk about the gun hunters getting the shaft.
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Post by dougl on Dec 15, 2021 10:38:31 GMT -5
The Quality of hunting and the amount of opportunities have never been better in this state and they keep getting better.I will agree that the traditions have changed a great deal but I'm not so sure theat's due to regulations.
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Post by fleroo on Dec 15, 2021 10:41:47 GMT -5
Which is why Ohio IS a destination state for antlered whitetails. Even though they are a neighboring state, their demographics, topography, and above all lack of Traditional rifle hunting, makes them vastly different. Ohio is all bow, never was and never will be a gun state.
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 15, 2021 10:41:49 GMT -5
Let's be clear. PA is NOT a destination whitetail state for archery, nor is it a destination state for SLAMMERS, HAMMERS, FROGS and TOADS. Agreed. I mention other states that have had historical archery harvest between 40-50% of the totals when some bring up concern for the resource as why we should reduce archery seasons. It is a non issue from a resource standpoint. Was is the important word. That tradition began dying way before the Saturday opener and way before crossbows became legal. Older guys are dying and hunting less. The young folks have no interest. Nothing will change the trajectory. Providing opportunity to those that still hunt will be the way forward. The good days are now for all hunters from an opportunity standpoint. Yes, even the rifle only folks.
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 15, 2021 10:44:21 GMT -5
Ohio is all bow, never was and never will be a gun state. And the gun hunters there kill giant bucks despite archery hunters killing them all, lol.
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Post by fleroo on Dec 15, 2021 11:08:28 GMT -5
I completely disagree that young folks have no interest. I also disagree that many of the older folks have no desire to keep camps alive. Of course, the WWII generation started PA's camp boom. And of course, that generation is slowly dying off. BUT, their boomer kids still have the desire to keep camps, no ? Look at this board alone, and the number of boomers that still cherish their camps and the experience it holds. And many of those boomers have passed "camp" down to their kids.
BOC policy enactments, have certainly had an impact on camp owners, and their camp traditions over the recent years. Much of that, right or wrong, started with the "Deer War" years, when many camp owners simply lost interest in travelling to hunt a meager deer herd. More recently, the BOC choices they've made, has harmed the camp/rifle owners, and that tradition has been brushed to the side.
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 15, 2021 11:42:52 GMT -5
Of course, the WWII generation started PA's camp boom. And of course, that generation is slowly dying off. BUT, their boomer kids still have the desire to keep camps, no ? No. Looking at hunting message boards is a losing argument. They are dying with the sport.
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Post by moosey on Dec 15, 2021 11:45:28 GMT -5
Ohio isn't shotgun only. They are a straight wall rifle cartridge state like the rest of the Midwest except Illinois which clings to its Shotguns
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Post by fleroo on Dec 15, 2021 11:54:23 GMT -5
Not sure how vast a difference there is from a straight-wall cartridge to a rifled barrel shotgun slug ? Perhaps some added distance on the cartridge ? But, the premise is perty much the same.
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