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Post by fleroo on Dec 13, 2021 10:28:11 GMT -5
I took a ride with my old pal "Grumpy" to our local deer processor, as he had to drop a doe off for butchering. I was talking to the owner, a guy I went to school with. We were there at 3:30 PM Saturday, and Grumpy's doe was the 15th deer dropped off that day. He said it was expected, as we had steady rain and 40-50 mph wind gusts Saturday.
BUT, get this. He said he did 700 archery deer, almost all buck. He was at about 900 rifle deer, of course a mix of buck/doe. This really shows the transformation that has been taking place for years now. He also said that this shift presents more of a problem for his business. He cited the warmer weather, and not having adequate help lined up due to unexpected "rushes". In the past, he would have his help lined up knowing that from start to finish of rifle, he would be very busy.
It wouldn't surprise me to finally see archery harvest tally up to 50% of the total buck harvest. Like maybe even within the next year or two.
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Post by robinpa on Dec 13, 2021 11:51:18 GMT -5
And in my opinion that number needs to be lowered by a shorter archery season and possibly a earlier rifle season.
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 13, 2021 12:17:42 GMT -5
It wouldn't surprise me to finally see archery harvest tally up to 50% of the total buck harvest. Like maybe even within the next year or two. No doubt we are headed there as we keep losing rifle hunters and participation in rifle season. Quite a few destination states for whitetails typically see archery account for close to 50% of antlered harvest.
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 13, 2021 12:18:37 GMT -5
And in my opinion that number needs to be lowered by a shorter archery season and possibly a earlier rifle season. Why does it need to be brought down? 45% of all deer hunters archery hunt and success rates for antlered deer in rifle have not changed.
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Post by fleroo on Dec 13, 2021 14:27:39 GMT -5
Robinpa. You are correct. Shorten the 7 week archery season.
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 13, 2021 14:30:51 GMT -5
Robinpa. You are correct. Shorten the 7 week archery season. I would ask you the same question. Why? 45% of our deer hunters archery hunt and success on antlered deer in firearms season is unchanged according to the PGC. What is it that you would expect to accomplish?
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Post by fleroo on Dec 13, 2021 14:32:02 GMT -5
False narrative. We aren't "losing" rifle hunters. They just shifted to the warmer and much longer season, to be able to target their "Toad"/"Frog"/"Slammer". Almost to the man/gal, if they don't harvest that big buck they "target", they turn into rifle hunters the weekend after Thanksgiving.
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Post by fleroo on Dec 13, 2021 14:37:53 GMT -5
More level playing field for the rifle only hunter, the guy that has no desire to join the razor flingers, to have a slightly better chance to target a Toad/Frog/Slammer. But, rifle only hunters better get used to the BOC pooping all over their wishes. They've been doing it for quite a while now. Pooping on the folks that need a bit more time to get ready for the season after Thanksgiving, is their latest way of stating, "You rifle guys and camp owners can go F yourselves. We don't care."
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 13, 2021 14:45:49 GMT -5
False narrative. We aren't "losing" rifle hunters. They just shifted to the warmer and much longer season, to be able to target their "Toad"/"Frog"/"Slammer". Almost to the man/gal, if they don't harvest that big buck they "target", they turn into rifle hunters the weekend after Thanksgiving. You are simply ignorant of the numbers. When they are pointed out you claim that they are wrong. We have 750,000 hunters that claim to hunt deer in Pa, according to the PGC. We have 370,000 that archery hunt deer. We used to have 1.1 million deer hunters in this state. Is is readily apparent that we have not lost archery hunters. We have lost the folks that used to rifle hunt just a few days of the year. They quit deer hunting or have died.
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 13, 2021 14:48:34 GMT -5
More level playing field for the rifle only hunter, the guy that has no desire to join the razor flingers, to have a slightly better chance to target a Toad/Frog/Slammer. Success rates in rifle deer for bucks has changed little and rifle only folks are barely over 50% of all deer hunters. Rifle season has been expanded greatly. Antler deer has been expanded two weekend days. Antlerless expanded by 11 days. Opportunities for everybody have never been greater.
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Post by fleroo on Dec 13, 2021 15:15:22 GMT -5
Gene, stop with the spin/nonsense. You claim we have 750,000 hunters that hunt deer. And per above, claim that of those, only about 375,000 would hunt RIFLE deer ? Do you even believe yourself ? LOL
Again. The paradigm shift to archery has been created by the BOC, due to a 7 week, warmer season to target a nice buck, and the inclusion of X-Bow adding tons of arrow folks. Fine, add the X-Bow, but 7 weeks of season ? It is very clear, with the pooping on camp owners, etc... they don't care about any wishes of riflemen.
Lastly, I don't buy that a couple/few hundred thousand folks buy licenses, and not wish to hunt deer.
We agree to disagree.
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 13, 2021 15:29:41 GMT -5
Gene, stop with the spin/nonsense. You claim we have 750,000 hunters that hunt deer. Spin/nonsense if you don't understand the numbers. I don't claim that. The PGC claims that. I have seen from 700,000-75000 in their estimates. Again, you are ignorant of the numbers. If we have 750,000 deer hunters and 50,000 tag out in archery, that leaves 700,000 to potentially rifle deer hunt which falls in line with their estimates. Most people that archery hunt rifle hunt if they don't tag out. People that rifle only hunt do not archery hunt, lol. Did you ignore what I pointed out before. Rifle season has been expanded two full days for antlered deer and 11 days for antlerless deer. Now is the best of times for both archery and rifle hunters.
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Post by fleroo on Dec 13, 2021 15:45:41 GMT -5
Gene, stop with the spin/nonsense. You claim we have 750,000 hunters that hunt deer. And per above, claim that of those, only about 375,000 would hunt RIFLE deer
In your first quote, you forgot to include my entire text Gene. lol
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Post by fleroo on Dec 13, 2021 15:52:07 GMT -5
Ya. Let's stick with just the antlered opportunity Gene. Not the antlerless. Bowmen get SEVEN FULL WEEKS, including a few more weeks in the late Flinter. And the 7 weeks are PRIOR to riflemen getting a crack at a "slammer", not to mention full-blown rut.
And yes, the riflemen get a lowly 2 days added, which actually F's up most of their plans due to the proximity of Thanksgiving.
Your manipulation is falling short pal. lol
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Post by robinpa on Dec 13, 2021 15:52:56 GMT -5
Move the rifle season up to the last week of October and the first two weeks of November , and watch the rifle hunter numbers jump
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 13, 2021 15:58:30 GMT -5
Gene, stop with the spin/nonsense. You claim we have 750,000 hunters that hunt deer. And per above, claim that of those, only about 375,000 would hunt RIFLE deerI never made that claim. You are not grasping the numbers and the details within them. Take 50,000 successful archery hunters out of our total deer hunters and we have around 700,000 that potentially hunt during rifle deer. Of our roughly 750,000 deer hunters 45% archery hunt. That leaves about 375,000 that are only rifle deer hunters. Making sense now?
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Post by davet on Dec 13, 2021 16:02:24 GMT -5
Dunno what the fuss is all about. Buy a bow and go archery hunting. But...you gotta get close to make it work. That's the challenge!
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 13, 2021 16:02:24 GMT -5
Ya. Let's stick with just the antlered opportunity Gene. Not the antlerless. Bowmen get SEVEN FULL WEEKS, including a few more weeks in the late Flinter. And the 7 weeks are PRIOR to riflemen getting a crack at a "slammer", not to mention full-blown rut. And yes, the riflemen get a lowly 2 days added, which actually F's up most of their plans due to the proximity of Thanksgiving. I have mentioned it two times now and you have ignored it. According to the PGC , success on antlered deer in rifle season has not changed. You are getting the same crack as you always had yet now the bucks are older on average. I don't have to manipulate. I am using real numbers from the real PGC.
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Post by robinpa on Dec 13, 2021 16:09:30 GMT -5
Dunno what the fuss is all about. Buy a bow and go archery hunting. But...you gotta get close to make it work. That's the challenge! Why is it so hard for people to understand that there are some hunters that don't want to hunt with archery equipment , they just want to be treated fairly , in fact some even think it should be stopped completely for various reasons.
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Post by fleroo on Dec 13, 2021 16:10:13 GMT -5
Well that's certainly a more clear explanation than prior attempt. lol
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 13, 2021 16:13:30 GMT -5
Well that's certainly a more clear explanation than prior attempt. lol I said the same thing before.
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Post by fleroo on Dec 13, 2021 16:15:06 GMT -5
Gene, riflemen are NOT getting the same "crack" at a mature antlered buck than bowmen. I didn't say that rifle hunters don't have the same 2 week season that they've had for decades upon decades. lol
I am stating, the disparity to hunt a mature buck (you know allowing 10 legal buck to walk before arrowing the Toad you really like) between bowmen/riflemen is drastic. Essentially 10 weeks bow, vs. 2weeks rifle
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 13, 2021 16:16:36 GMT -5
Why is it so hard for people to understand that there are some hunters that don't want to hunt with archery equipment , they just want to be treated fairly , in fact some even think it should be stopped completely for various reasons. How are you being treated unfairly? Success rates have remain unchanged for antlered deer in rifle and the seasons have been expanded. Antlerless deer expanded over 500% and antlered deer 15%.
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Post by robinpa on Dec 13, 2021 16:22:07 GMT -5
Why is it so hard for people to understand that there are some hunters that don't want to hunt with archery equipment , they just want to be treated fairly , in fact some even think it should be stopped completely for various reasons. How are you being treated unfairly? Success rates have remain unchanged for antlered deer in rifle and the seasons have been expanded. Antlerless deer expanded over 500% and antlered deer 15%. Gene if you can't see how archers get preferential treatment on season dates and length than you are not being honest with yourself or others.
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 13, 2021 16:22:13 GMT -5
Gene, riflemen are NOT getting the same "crack" at a mature antlered buck than bowmen. But they do. Success rates for antlered deer are the same in rifle deer as they were before and the average age for both archery and rifle harvested deer is older. 50% of the antlered harvest by archery does not mean that archery hunters are taking 50% of the available antlered deer now compared to 40% before. That is a false parallel.
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