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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 14, 2021 8:56:18 GMT -5
When nearly half of the antlered deer harvest is already dead before rifle season , kind of sounds like opportunity has already been taken away from some. Success rates do not bear this out. Rosenberry had a lengthy discussion about this at a BOC meeting. You do realize that 50% of the harvest does not equate to 50% of the bucks are already dead? |
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 14, 2021 8:58:12 GMT -5
I dunno if this data was posted previously.....but just wondering the "success rate" of today's rifle hunter (Antlered only) when compared to "days of old" before those nasty crossbows were legal. Fluctuates around the mid teens I believe. |
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Post by fleroo on Dec 14, 2021 8:59:07 GMT -5
OH FOR F**KS SAKES ! DO YOU EVEN BELIEVE YOURSELF, GENE ? Archery is ANYTHING but low impact. A couple years ago, you said antlered buck harvest per archery, was a negligible (low impact) number. That's when it was 40% ? It is closing in quickly on 50%, and you STILL will say low impact, because of season length ? LOL
You're still be my "cyber pal", Gene. But I just can't get on board with your thought process the majority of the time. LOL
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 14, 2021 9:03:36 GMT -5
OH FOR F**KS SAKES ! DO YOU EVEN BELIEVE YOURSELF, GENE ? Archery is ANYTHING but low impact. A couple years ago, you said antlered buck harvest per archery, was a negligible (low impact) number. That's when it was 40% ? It is closing in quickly on 50%, and you STILL will say low impact, because of season length ? LOL You're still be my "cyber pal", Gene. But I just can't get on board with your thought process the majority of the time. LOL Archery is low impact which is why seasons are longer in every state. If archery was high impact the season would be two weeks. |
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Post by fleroo on Dec 14, 2021 9:04:56 GMT -5
GEEZUS ! An inline is basically a scoped rifle. Why not just open that up to ALL weapons, rifles included if that were the case ? Your suggestion is to allow basically in-lines, in the fall for 1 week on a limited draw. NICE ! Typical archers mindset, though I know you hunt more than archery. That's 1 tick up from nothing at all. I misspoke. A "typical" archers mindset would be nothing at all. So you have that going for you.
So, out of 875,000 (my numbers) potential rifle hunters, you're gracious enough to let 20,000 hunt the rut with y'all. LOL
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 14, 2021 9:13:15 GMT -5
GEEZUS ! An inline is basically a scoped rifle. Why not just open that up to ALL weapons, rifles included if that were the case ? Your suggestion is to allow basically in-lines, in the fall for 1 week on a limited draw. NICE ! Typical archers mindset, though I know you hunt more than archery. That's 1 tick up from nothing at all. I misspoke. A "typical" archers mindset would be nothing at all. So you have that going for you. So, out of 875,000 (my numbers) potential rifle hunters, you're gracious enough to let 20,000 hunt the rut with y'all. LOL Actually just offering something that has a realistic chance. I prefer to wade across a stream instead of upstream when I am trying to cross. I don't want opportunity taken away from anybody. If you don't want to get a whack at a buck with a muzzleloader earlier, you can keep on keeping on with your approach of whining and complaining. If we had a early antlered muzzleloader season in September like Kansas, I would be out there filling my antlered tag before archery and would hardly archery hunt. I archery hunt a lot cause it comes in first and is a long season. No other reason. I like to hunt. No "archery hunter mindset" here. Just a hunters mindset. |
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Post by fleroo on Dec 14, 2021 9:16:31 GMT -5
You beat me to it. I wonder what the stick flingers would have thought about keeping their old 4 week season for the majority, and offering 20K of them to hunt in November for $20/per. LOL Can you say.... LEAD BALLOON !?
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Post by fleroo on Dec 14, 2021 9:19:45 GMT -5
Shucks robinpa. You are still allowed 2 weeks to get what's left over after all of the Slammers, Toads, and Frogs have been targeted and whacked. You should be thankful.
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 14, 2021 9:23:13 GMT -5
When ships sail, you have missed the proverbial boat. Some can't seem to figure that out. If you want to get to the other side, you have to come up with a plan that has a chance to succeed. Standing on the shore and stomping your feet doesn't bring the boat back.
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Post by fleroo on Dec 14, 2021 9:34:31 GMT -5
That's deep, bro. DEEP !  |
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Post by fleroo on Dec 14, 2021 9:51:52 GMT -5
I am a rifle hunter, and a flintlock hunter, Ridge. In 1985, I was bowhunting with a pard in Greene County. A young, vibrant, bowhunting hack-ass. I was standing on a large oak limb along a pasture when a little forkie came strolling by. I yanked back the venerable Bear Whitetail Hunter compound, looked down the shaft of my Easton Game-Getter tipped with a Savora broadhead (instinctive hack-ass, sights weren't all the rage then), and let 'er fly. Welp, at the spine shot, forkie went down baying and bawling. I stood on the limb also baying and bawling. My pard came up, and he started baying and bawling. We stopped at a bar in Waynesburg on the way home, bellied up to the bar, and the nice bartender asked why the hell we were baying and bawling. I resigned that day, that a hack-ass shouldn't pick up a bow, and try to ply that trade. Haven't since. So I'm not interested in the "come join us" instead of whining, Ridge. I will express my feelings however on the matter of season length, and what I think is inequity among hunter "types", season lengths, etc... Now, your take is, there is no inequity. We are all "hunting brothers". Opportunity is opportunity if you're in the hunting fraternity. In other words... shut up and deal with it. We archers want it all, and after getting inches, won't give an inch. Georgie O's quote I posted yesterday, rings so true when it comes to the BOC and how they look at hunters. |
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Post by robinpa on Dec 14, 2021 9:54:39 GMT -5
Possibly the rifle hunters would have a better chance at season changes and improvement if the archers would quit fighting them at every step of the way , but IMO archers have become the me me me generation , and I don't expect them to change.
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 14, 2021 10:01:47 GMT -5
So I'm not interested in the "come join us" instead of whining, Ridge. I never asked you to "come join us". Others often say that but I understand some do not want to archery hunt and I respect that. When I said whining and complaining I was referring to trying to get additional opportunities for muzzleloader. That is not true. I have said several times that archery hunters have the best opportunities and that rifle and muzzleloader have been neglected. My point is opportunity is available without taking it away from others. We are which is why I say work together instead of against each other. Taking opportunity away is not working with others. Opportunities exist for those that want to pursue them in a constructive way. |
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JEEPERS !
Dec 14, 2021 10:27:07 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by moosey on Dec 14, 2021 10:27:07 GMT -5
I still use a Bear Whitetail Hunter and I still do not use sights. You have to have those old Compounds if you want to shoot fingers. With newer bows you must use a Release
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Post by fleroo on Dec 14, 2021 10:39:31 GMT -5
I am not advocating additional opportunity for "muzzleloader". I would however, like to see some additional EARLY FALL opportunity for Flintlock, as their base is small, and their harvest is very negligible. Not even close to impactful like archery, in-lines, rifles.
And to be honest, and I know you don't want to hear it, but the BOC sh!t the bed when they opened up archery to most of November. I do not want more rifle earlier than it is. That is including in-lines also which are basically rifles. I am advocating perhaps taking archery back down to 4 weeks, or even 5, so that the rifle hunters have a "more fair" crack at a booner, slammer, toad, frog. Not a dink that may happen to be left. It's actually additional rifle opportunity by proxy, right ? By necking down a 7 week impactful archery season.
And I know your take. Early fall MUZZLELOADER (meanin in-line) opportunity with a limited draw. LOL Gee Thanks...... laughable. And, don't even think about necking down the archery season.
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 14, 2021 10:44:43 GMT -5
And I know your take. Early fall MUZZLELOADER (meanin in-line) opportunity with a limited draw. LOL Gee Thanks...... laughable. Flintlock would be more than welcome to hunt it as well. |
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Post by fleroo on Dec 14, 2021 11:12:01 GMT -5
Gee Thanks.... again. You're hitting homers. Ridge, let's be realistic. How many people, under your limited (20,000 limit and all muzzy types), would choose a Flinter over an inline in an early fall season ? An inline is nothing more than a scoped rifle when it comes to brass tacks, on 1 shot opportunities. How about this. NO DRAW LIMIT. Include FLINTLOCK for a week or two in November with the archers. Flintlock is MUCH less impactful than an X-Bow. Not to mention, there are MUCH less Flint hunters than there are archers. |
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 14, 2021 11:18:08 GMT -5
How about this. NO DRAW LIMIT. Include FLINTLOCK for a week or two in November with the archers. Flintlock is MUCH less impactful than an X-Bow. Not to mention, there are MUCH less Flint hunters than there are archers. Go for it but I see it having little chance to succeed. Pa is the only state in the country that has a flintlock only season. You are asking the PGC to create a second one. That just ain't going to happen, IMO. We are darn lucky to still have one season dedicated to flintlocks. What does it matter? Some hunt with a 30/30 lever in rifle. Some with a scoped 300 winnie. Some with single shot TC Encore. Some hunt with a longbow in archery. Some a crossbow. A "muzzleloader" season you are free to hunt with whatever ignition type you want. |
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Post by robinpa on Dec 14, 2021 11:27:31 GMT -5
A better solution is shorten archery by two weeks and give those two weeks in November to flint lock hunters , still low impact so all is good
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Post by fleroo on Dec 14, 2021 11:27:41 GMT -5
No. PA has a "late deer season" in all actuality. All of the nearly 400,000 archers are welcome to hunt that late season also.
Again, why include INLINES ? Your proposal might as well be allowing rifles in the early archery season for antlered deer. And under a "limited" draw. Talk about "ain't gonna happen". LOL Flint only in the early season has a wayyyyyy better chance. And with the BOC, and 400,000 crying archers, that ain't gonna happen either any time soon. LOL
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 14, 2021 11:37:21 GMT -5
Talk about "ain't gonna happen". LOL Flint only in the early season has a wayyyyyy better chance. Just some facts for ya. Many states have an early muzzleloader season where all muzzleloaders are legal and both buck and doe are legal. Some of those states award antlered tags for that season to provide some opportunity without any harm coming to the resource. And the big fact for you. There is no state that has a flintlock only early season where bucks and does are legal. Remember the wading across the stream instead of wading upstream comment................... So I will hedge my bet on what is actual reality. |
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Post by fleroo on Dec 14, 2021 11:46:45 GMT -5
And here's a fact for "ya" too. Only Texas has more hunters, or licenses sold if you will, than Pennsylvania. Your statement is an apples/oranges statement.
PA actually sold 25,000 less MUZZLEOADER permits in 2020 than in 2010. Flintlock only hunters are a fraction of that I'm sure. So exactly how "impactful" can a Flintlock in early season be ? They usually don't go bang, and when they do, guys usually don't connect on their target. Quite unlike the scoped X-Bow. No "limited draw" is necessary when adding the "sporting" Flintlock to early season.
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 14, 2021 11:55:37 GMT -5
Like I said Fleroo, have at it. I wish you well.
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Post by davet on Dec 14, 2021 11:58:40 GMT -5
A better solution is shorten archery by two weeks and give those two weeks in November to flint lock hunters , still low impact so all is good See....I don't agree that an early Flint season would be as "low impact" as the post Christmas season we now have. I think the biggest reason we have a low impact post Christmas is not only because of the firearm in use, but the fact that deer are at their most "skittished" awareness of humans in the woods. The simple crack of a small branch at 100 yards is enough to send them running. They won't even stick around to see what made the branch crack. An early Flintlock season would have as much or more of an impact as the current last two weeks of archery does now. |
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Post by fleroo on Dec 14, 2021 11:59:09 GMT -5
Thank You ! I am writing up a petition for the BOC as we speak.  |
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