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Post by redarrow on Dec 23, 2016 19:20:20 GMT -5
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 23, 2016 20:06:32 GMT -5
How can ANYONE who whined and lobbied for crossbow inclusion for all be HYPOCRITICAL enough to call a archers babies? ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ? Cause I don't cry if some one wants to join me in the woods like some archery hunters do. There are many archery hunters that welcome all to the woods. The rest cry at the mere thought of someone disturbing their deer or their hunt. I never cried and whined about crossbow inclusion. I presented my position in civil ways in front of the people that mattered using the good data that was available at the time. Ultimately, it seems that direction worked, not the attack and personal swipe approach that you seem to indulge in. I spoke with many commissioners during the crossbow wars. All of those I spoke with often commented on the negative and very below the belt fight that some of the antis engaged in. Those that chose to throw slop as you do, really had no respect from the board at the time. You got your archery season during the rut because folks asked for it and presented their case in a productive way. As I did with crossbow inclusion. No whining or crying on either occasion.
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 23, 2016 20:09:28 GMT -5
These are likely the same type of hunters who prop a scoped crossbow up on a bipod and claim to be archery hunting. Not that there's anything wrong with that ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) , but it ain't archery. Again--------IMHO Nope. Only one of the guys that I regularly rifle hunt with spends any time archery hunting. He never dusted off his bow last year. Congrats to your friend. May he be able to spend more time in the great outdoors for years to come.
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Post by bowbum on Dec 24, 2016 9:50:24 GMT -5
He told me it is the last deer he'll kill with a crossbow. "They can say what they want, but it's not archery hunting." I'm only a short ways behind that guy because for me archery hunting means lifting, drawing, holding and releasing a string. I whined incessantly against inclusion of crossbows in the general archery season for that reason. BUT, I lost my argument and I respect and abide by the choice to include crossbows. As with compounds, scopes on rifles, (my dad hated that anyone would use a scope), or any other change for inclusion, I simply do not have a problem with it or with the people who choose to use those weapons. I am no better than them and many hunters of different weapon choices could teach me and "you" lessons on wildlife behavior, tracking, shot placement, and a host of hunting skills that go well beyond the choice of weapon on any particular day. As for, (" it's not archery hunting"), it don't matter what you call it. Tell him to call it gun hunting if he wishes. But suck it up.....don't start sounding like those snowflakes who won't accept that Trump won....! confused-smiley-013
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 24, 2016 10:10:28 GMT -5
I'm only a short ways behind that guy because for me archery hunting means lifting, drawing, holding and releasing a string. I whined incessantly against inclusion of crossbows in the general archery season for that reason. Bowbum, Red could learn much from you. You and I went round and round on HuntingPa during the crossbow wars but what I respect greatly about you is you always kept it civil and free from personal slights. You opposed the crossbow in archery but in a way that many can learn from. As I told Red, everyone is entitled to their opinions. It is how those opinions and positions are presented that says a lot about a person. You and Red are on opposite ends of the spectrum. You are what this sport needs more of. God bless and Merry Christmas to you and yours.
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Post by redarrow on Dec 24, 2016 10:57:34 GMT -5
As long as they keep the weapon of any land I own, it's fine that guys hunt with crossbows as the law says they may now be used in archery season. As for those who lobbied and whined for full inclusion, I think they are representative of the dumbing down of America. The handicapped were given some advantages so that, if they could not draw a bow, they could still take part. Then, some healthy hunters became jealous that, because of the own lack of effort, they were left out and wanted the advantages too. Some movers and shakers, looking for a way to play hero, took up the cause. Looking for a way to raise funds through the increased sale of archery tags, the PGC gave into the whining and moved to allow crossbows full inclusion in PA's archery seasons. Even then, these heroes insisted that the effort of using open sights was too taxing to the type who considers the weapon acceptable , so they demand scopes be allowed. hissyfit And here we are. It is funny listening to the folks look for reasons to claim that that is not the genesis of xbows full inclusion. Oh, and bb, I take it "snowflake" is the latest label to become popular with the tea baggers? I would think that if anyone recognizes the parallel between affirmative action and full inclusion it would be a conservative-epecially the super conservatives. How do you feel about "participation" trophies? ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ?? confused-smiley-013
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 24, 2016 12:28:28 GMT -5
As for those who lobbied and whined for full inclusion, I think they are representative of the dumbing down of America. The handicapped were given some advantages so that, if they could not draw a bow, they could still take part. Then, some healthy hunters became jealous that, because of the own lack of effort, they were left out and wanted the advantages too. Some movers and shakers, looking for a way to play hero, took up the cause. Merry Christmas to you! This whiner, complainer, dumb, lazy, mover, shaker, affirmative actioner has it in his heart to bless all on the eve of the most holy day. You, on the other hand, ................ God bless.
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Post by bowbum on Dec 24, 2016 12:29:02 GMT -5
Bowbum, Red could learn much from you. You and I went round and round on HuntingPa during the crossbow wars but what I respect greatly about you is you always kept it civil and free from personal slights. You opposed the crossbow in archery but in a way that many can learn from. As I told Red, everyone is entitled to their opinions. It is how those opinions and positions are presented that says a lot about a person. You and Red are on opposite ends of the spectrum. You are what this sport needs more of. God bless and Merry Christmas to you and yours. I appreciate that very much Ridge. I honestly do not recall "who" I went round and round with but I did realize people can have different views and still be civil. As soon as the decision was made for inclusion it was time to recognize that, move on and wish those who joined our ranks well. Yes, a hearty Merry Christmas to you and yours.
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Post by bowbum on Dec 24, 2016 12:38:33 GMT -5
As long as they keep the weapon of any land I own, it's fine that guys hunt with crossbows as the law says they may now be used in archery season. How can it be fine when you continually used words and phrases like: " they are representative of the dumbing down of America." "healthy hunters became jealous that, because of the own lack of effort, they were left out and wanted the advantages too. Some movers and shakers, looking for a way to play hero, took up the cause." "these heroes insisted that the effort of using open sights was too taxing to the type who considers the weapon acceptable , so they demand scopes be allowed."I take it "snowflake" is the latest label to become popular with the tea baggers?" Don't know about any tea, or any bagger or braggers. I simply "hoped" that you would not become like those who seem to melt down when they don't get their way. = "snowflakes" Am I too late in that hope? You continually exert the nastiness, as shown above, ......with phony claims that it doesn't matter as long as they aren't on your land.....but then you exclaim all sorts of stuff to blatantly demonstrate that "to you" it really does matter! ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ? confused-smiley-013
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Post by redarrow on Dec 24, 2016 14:22:51 GMT -5
I have no problem with being called names for my opinion on crossbows. And I am not surprised by hypocritical post made by anyone anymore. It's almost fun to see those who call names get upset when someone dares return it. Thanks for the laughs and Merry Christmas to all.
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Post by bowbum on Dec 24, 2016 16:25:42 GMT -5
I have no problem with being called names for my opinion on crossbows. And I am not surprised by hypocritical post made by anyone anymore. It's almost fun to see those who call names get upset when someone dares return it. Thanks for the laughs and Merry Christmas to all. Don't know who called you names but that ain't nice on Christmas Eve. I did see where you used some less-than-complimentary descriptions though. Hope the spirit finds you and administers a cure for that kind of talk. Merry Christmas.
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Post by redarrow on Dec 24, 2016 17:55:27 GMT -5
And to you and your reading skills, bb.
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Post by dougell on Dec 26, 2016 9:16:59 GMT -5
Squirrels and spring gobbler are the best way to get a kid started.Archery deer is the worst. I agree to a point Doug, but there for most people shooting their first deer and first buck is one of their most memorable experiences in hunting. Deer is the "king" of hunting so to speak. Also I don't think archery deer is that bad especially early season. You are sitting a relatively short period of time(2-3 hours) and the weather is usually decent. I do agree that squirrel and spring gobbler are good. An often overlooked thing is predator hunting with a call. It can be exciting as well. Of course under the stupid regs we have now a MY kid can only shoot a coyote that comes in. If a fox comes in then he has to pass. True,but I believe the actual kill is secondary.I just think bowhunting is way too boring to start a get out with.I feel it's something that they should graduate to after learning patience.Just my opinion.Crows aND predators are also good.We hunt coyotes a lot in the summer.To date,we've never called one in to the gun and got a shot but we've called in dozens of deer,bear and everything else.It's fun and exciting even if you don't kill anything.
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Post by dougell on Dec 26, 2016 9:23:30 GMT -5
The crossbow war is over.I don't find them fun and they aren't for me but if they get someone out top enjoy the outdoors,it's all good.Hunting is dying a much faster death than I originally thought and it saddens me.Every year I see less and less hunters and hear less and less shooting.I guess that increases opportunities for those of us who take advantage of it but it's truly heartbreaking to see such an awesome heritage and way of life die.
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Post by bowbum on Dec 26, 2016 12:37:40 GMT -5
The crossbow war is over.I don't find them fun and they aren't for me but if they get someone out top enjoy the outdoors,it's all good.Hunting is dying a much faster death than I originally thought and it saddens me.Every year I see less and less hunters and hear less and less shooting.I guess that increases opportunities for those of us who take advantage of it but it's truly heartbreaking to see such an awesome heritage and way of life die. Agreed! The inherited traditions that evolved out of a necessity for our species to survive have been fading from the minds and desires of those who follow. There is no longer the appreciation of hunting as the key element to our existence. Adding opportunities has certainly brought new participants and possibly kept others here beyond their destined exit, but the writing is on the proverbial caveman's wall. We, --- our children's children, will see "managed" wildlife by chemical, surgical, medical or other micro controlled methods.....such as more predator species introduction and barriers to keep species in defined regions. I also doubt I will take up a crossbow but that is absolutely no a judgment of anyone else. I encourage those who think they would enjoy the outdoors with any weapon to go for it and be good at what they choose. I may even change my mind but I cut my teeth on summer archery sports when I was not even 10 years old and have been a student ever since. I simply love it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2016 16:59:59 GMT -5
Woo hoo, I just put a deposit down & having a custom built Big Jim's Thunderchild Longbow. The bow is built by "Big" Jim Babcock in Georgia. It's gonna be a long year's wait. bigjimsbowcompany.com/?s=thunderchild
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Post by dougell on Dec 27, 2016 9:15:44 GMT -5
The crossbow war is over.I don't find them fun and they aren't for me but if they get someone out top enjoy the outdoors,it's all good.Hunting is dying a much faster death than I originally thought and it saddens me.Every year I see less and less hunters and hear less and less shooting.I guess that increases opportunities for those of us who take advantage of it but it's truly heartbreaking to see such an awesome heritage and way of life die. Agreed! The inherited traditions that evolved out of a necessity for our species to survive have been fading from the minds and desires of those who follow. There is no longer the appreciation of hunting as the key element to our existence. Adding opportunities has certainly brought new participants and possibly kept others here beyond their destined exit, but the writing is on the proverbial caveman's wall. We, --- our children's children, will see "managed" wildlife by chemical, surgical, medical or other micro controlled methods.....such as more predator species introduction and barriers to keep species in defined regions. I also doubt I will take up a crossbow but that is absolutely no a judgment of anyone else. I encourage those who think they would enjoy the outdoors with any weapon to go for it and be good at what they choose. I may even change my mind but I cut my teeth on summer archery sports when I was not even 10 years old and have been a student ever since. I simply love it. Same here.I just find bows fun to shoot year round.I don't find crossbows fun to play with at all.
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Post by dougell on Dec 27, 2016 9:16:19 GMT -5
Woo hoo, I just put a deposit down & having a custom built Big Jim's Thunder Child Longbow. The bow is built by "Big" Jim Babcock in Georgia. It's gonna be a long year's wait. Awesome gift for some kid.
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Post by davet on Dec 27, 2016 10:52:45 GMT -5
Same here.I just find bows fun to shoot year round.I don't find crossbows fun to play with at all. I've adjusted my compound bow down to it's lowest draw weight of 45-lbs. I can now draw it back and shoot it and it's fun and for me, great exercise. Still, I cannot use it for hunting as to hold it at full draw for any amount of time the sight becomes to "shakey" for a good release and a confident release for a clean kill. But for shooting at paper it's great fun. OTOH, I shoot thousands of rounds of ammo every year from handguns to rifles. I load different loads for the same rifle or handgun for different purposes for both target and hunting, and I believe that being a "numbers" guy all my life, I find that ballistics is a fun thing to work with. Of course, shooting from a bench rest always helps, but in hunting, shooting from a solid support such as a well supported shooting stick is always a good thing. Boolits, is bullets is bulluits. It's all good stuff!! To me, it's important to "get out there" in the outdoors and have a good time!! Teach your children and grandchildren and they will never forget it. The weapon is not as important as the experience. My Dad was not a hunter. My Grandparents were and they took me out and taught me the "how, what and why" when I was of age. I think of them often. Even today. And heck, I'm 60 and when I take a deer I recall my Grandfather helping me with my first buck. I still feel 15 years old.
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Post by whilekioti on Aug 8, 2017 11:44:46 GMT -5
I know this is a old post...but it's new to me...It isn't my intention to get my licks in on redarrow...but to suggest a different point of view on this post We have always made exceptions for the crippled, but too many folks who suffer no physical limitations, save their own slothfulness, want the same rules for themselves. And there are lots of reason for the decline in hunting. The, Let's find a way to make things easier so that those who lack all dedication can be successful and feel good about themselves, are at least partially to blame. Times have changed...there are more demands and on a young man's time than there was when I/we grew up. If someone doesn't have the time to master traditional or compound bows but has the time to master a crossbow...should they be looked upon as lazy and be denied the privilege to hunt the archery season? I agree that there are many reason for the "decline in hunting"...not the least of them is...a lack of interest...the truth is we are all different...we have different priorities in life...IMO that means we all have varying degrees of a desire to hunt...should we leave things alone...or should we try to grow our ranks by offering those with a lesser degree of desire opportunities to participate? Dec 18, 2016 20:34:47 GMT -4 redarrow said: I think many who claim to be advocates for hunters are much more concern with self-promotion. Some of the things that are now law, and others that are being advocated, are not favored by many current hunters. ARs and semis are two that most of the hunters I know oppose.[/quote] It depends on ones point of view...personally I support changes that will provide more opportunities that benefit the greatest number of us even if it means I loose some opportunities, which I believe in turn will help with hunter recruitment and retention...if one believes that we have enough hunters and more are not needed then my point of view is seen as a problem. Dec 18, 2016 20:34:47 GMT -4 redarrow said: We may be "bleeding hunters", but looking back on whether or not recent changes in laws have helped, one must be honest enough to accept the fact that they have not, and that some may have actually made the problem worse.[/quote] The "fact" is we will continue to "bleed hunters" regardless...there are too many reasons associated with the "bleed" to stop it or to know if recent changes have lessened the bleeding.
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Post by davet on Aug 8, 2017 11:52:28 GMT -5
The "fact" is we will continue to "bleed hunters" regardless...there are too many reasons associated with the "bleed" to stop it or to know if recent changes have lessened the bleeding. A very true statement. You can't measure the effect of "what if we would have." with any real confidence in the numbers.
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Post by redarrow on Aug 8, 2017 17:02:08 GMT -5
I know this is a old post...but it's new to me...It isn't my intention to get my licks in on redarrow...but to suggest a different point of view on this post We have always made exceptions for the crippled, but too many folks who suffer no physical limitations, save their own slothfulness, want the same rules for themselves. And there are lots of reason for the decline in hunting. The, Let's find a way to make things easier so that those who lack all dedication can be successful and feel good about themselves, are at least partially to blame. Times have changed...there are more demands and on a young man's time than there was when I/we grew up. If someone doesn't have the time to master traditional or compound bows but has the time to master a crossbow...should they be looked upon as lazy and be denied the privilege to hunt the archery season? I agree that there are many reason for the "decline in hunting"...not the least of them is...a lack of interest...the truth is we are all different...we have different priorities in life...IMO that means we all have varying degrees of a desire to hunt...should we leave things alone...or should we try to grow our ranks by offering those with a lesser degree of desire opportunities to participate? Dec 18, 2016 20:34:47 GMT -4 redarrow said: I think many who claim to be advocates for hunters are much more concern with self-promotion. Some of the things that are now law, and others that are being advocated, are not favored by many current hunters. ARs and semis are two that most of the hunters I know oppose. It depends on ones point of view...personally I support changes that will provide more opportunities that benefit the greatest number of us even if it means I loose some opportunities, which I believe in turn will help with hunter recruitment and retention...if one believes that we have enough hunters and more are not needed then my point of view is seen as a problem [/quote] I hear the "more opportunities" excuse used often as a reason to allow shortcuts like crossbow. But the opportunity to archery hunt has been there for many decades. If a hunter was physically unable to draw a bow he was given a easier method. If healthy hunters did hunt deer with the archery equipment that so many others did without complaint, it is all on them.
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Post by ridgecommander on Aug 8, 2017 17:54:35 GMT -5
I hear the "more opportunities" excuse used often as a reason to allow shortcuts like crossbow. But the opportunity to archery hunt has been there for many decades. If a hunter was physically unable to draw a bow he was given a easier method. If healthy hunters did hunt deer with the archery equipment that so many others did without complaint, it is all on them. Just as they were when you, and your elite brotherhood, embraced the compound bow. Hypocrites..... You pushed the same "easy" button as well...
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Post by redarrow on Aug 8, 2017 18:30:31 GMT -5
Maybe....... 'pparently even that weren't easy enough fer some of yuonz. smileys-whistling-823718
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Post by whilekioti on Aug 8, 2017 19:36:32 GMT -5
I hear the "more opportunities" excuse used often as a reason to allow shortcuts like crossbow. But the opportunity to archery hunt has been there for many decades. If a hunter was physically unable to draw a bow he was given a easier method. If healthy hunters did hunt deer with the archery equipment that so many others did without complaint, it is all on them. You hear only what you choose to hear...I hear older hunters rejoining/joining our ranks...I hear younger hunters who started out with crossbows switching to compound and traditional bows as they grew in age, strength, and mental discipline...I hear middle aged hunters who don't have the time needed to become proficient with compound and traditional bows becoming archery hunters...all because of crossbows.
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