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Senior ARs
Jun 28, 2023 14:47:21 GMT -5
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Post by Dutch on Jun 28, 2023 14:47:21 GMT -5
Apparently a bill, with USP backing, passed out of committee today to eliminate ARs for seniors.
It's a GREAT DAY!
Now, because small bucks grow into larger bucks, more small bucks will be killed, leaving even fewer legal bucks for those 17-64 years old.
If you are in that age bracket, you should be upset.
I swear, this country falls all over itself to cater to us older coots, at the expense of younger people.
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Post by ridgecommander on Jun 28, 2023 15:01:03 GMT -5
They might as well eliminate ARs if this bill gains tractions and passes.
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Post by Loggy on Jun 28, 2023 15:18:24 GMT -5
Knew a memo was submitted back in March but this was the first I heard of any movement:: HB 493
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Post by moosemike on Jun 28, 2023 15:41:34 GMT -5
I've always been for the dissolution of ARs
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Post by Loggy on Jun 28, 2023 16:19:07 GMT -5
Without AR I know for a fact there's a couple high/wide heavy horned 4's that woulda met my expectations least worthy of a skull mount. Last couple years about all I've been seeing. Prolly I'm just too old, dumb & inexperienced to find all those high quality bucks resulting from AR that are running all around.
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Post by Loggy on Jun 28, 2023 16:32:26 GMT -5
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Post by Dutch on Jun 28, 2023 17:14:09 GMT -5
They might as well eliminate ARs if this bill gains tractions and passes. I remember watching a hearing, something like 30-40% of hunters are youth and seniors. Sad they have taken this step. The whiners win. If you can't count points, you simply aren't safe to be in the woods, IMO If you have to kill a buck that bad, then, I feel you have to examine why you hunt. My dad killed 4 deer in his life, but just loved being out there. He hunted for the right reason
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Post by moosemike on Jun 28, 2023 18:29:04 GMT -5
You have a right to your opinion. You don't have a right to tell me what mine should be. Anybody judging who belongs in the Woods and who doesn't is taking things a bit too far
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Post by ridgecommander on Jun 28, 2023 18:45:51 GMT -5
I really don't care what people shoot if it makes them happy. I just have to wonder if they remove ARs for seniors, would the goals of antler restrictions be compromised. If the goals are compromised, then they should remove ARs for everybody at that point.
I like ARs for selfish reasons but I understand why others don't like them.
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Post by westfieldjoe on Jun 28, 2023 19:08:08 GMT -5
There isn't enough Seniors to throw off the age structure to the point it will do harm. First, not all hunt. Second, Not all who do are successful. Third, not all would opt for a set of small antlers.
Look to NY No antler restrictions. Through an education effort, thier buck age structure is well into a desired range for healthy herd concerns.
I believe AR has educated enough that it can be removed in PA.
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Post by ridgecommander on Jun 28, 2023 19:11:39 GMT -5
There isn't enough Seniors to throw off the age structure to the point it will do harm. First, not all hunt. Second, Not all who do are successful. Third, not all would opt for a set of small antlers. If the number Dutch posted is accurate, about 35% of our hunters would not have ARs since junior hunters do not have to abide by them either.
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Post by stroupy on Jun 28, 2023 19:30:13 GMT -5
I'm in the opinion of eliminating AR all together. I know it has made a lot of people happy but it has also chased a lot away too. With losing hunter numbers no where near what it once was just try eliminating them all together and see what happens. If we can change the opener and make a lot of people unhappy why not this? It's more opportunity isn't it?
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Post by westfieldjoe on Jun 28, 2023 19:34:45 GMT -5
Around me Stroup, I don't think it's ARs as much as it is a lack of hunters.
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Post by stroupy on Jun 28, 2023 19:39:54 GMT -5
Around me Stroup, I don't think it's ARs as much as it is a lack of hunters. I agree, lower hunter numbers the bucks are going to get big still imo. I said that for the last couple of years. It's time to throw out the ego and get back to common sense. If someone is satisfied with a dink then let them. I will still hold out for a big one. I don't have to be forced to do it. I see people on Facebook every year shooting the first legal buck either their first rack or 2nd. Same guys are notorious for it. I always ask myself why don't they hold out for a big one. The one guy had on the other year about BBD! It was a 2 year old with maybe a 14" spread. I just giggled to myself. I guess everyone's opinion is different.
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Post by cspot on Jun 28, 2023 19:41:55 GMT -5
I honestly question if they are still needed with the decline of hunter numbers. The mindset of the average is different than 20 years ago too. Many practice their own AR's. Alot of guys now pass legal bucks waiting on something better.
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Senior ARs
Jun 28, 2023 20:59:41 GMT -5
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Post by Dutch on Jun 28, 2023 20:59:41 GMT -5
You have a right to your opinion. You don't have a right to tell me what mine should be. Anybody judging who belongs in the Woods and who doesn't is taking things a bit too far Nah....if one can't count points, they don't belong in the woods. And now they have to know the difference between a 2.75 inch spike or a 3 inch spike. Yeah, we just want to shoot at anything..... Sorry, I had an azzhole shoot at a spiker running between us just because he had to kill a deer.
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Senior ARs
Jun 28, 2023 21:07:48 GMT -5
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Post by Dutch on Jun 28, 2023 21:07:48 GMT -5
Bring it on, fewer bucks for those 17-64 to shoot.
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Senior ARs
Jun 28, 2023 21:10:09 GMT -5
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Post by Dutch on Jun 28, 2023 21:10:09 GMT -5
I honestly question if they are still needed with the decline of hunter numbers. The mindset of the average is different than 20 years ago too. Many practice their own AR's. Alot of guys now pass legal bucks waiting on something better. Guys may pass them on private land, public land will be different, especially the heavily hunted public
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Post by muttleysback on Jun 29, 2023 4:15:28 GMT -5
Not too many hunters are older than I am, and I would not support this bill.
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Post by moosemike on Jun 29, 2023 6:31:41 GMT -5
You have a right to your opinion. You don't have a right to tell me what mine should be. Anybody judging who belongs in the Woods and who doesn't is taking things a bit too far Nah....if one can't count points, they don't belong in the woods. And now they have to know the difference between a 2.75 inch spike or a 3 inch spike. Yeah, we just want to shoot at anything..... Sorry, I had an azzhole shoot at a spiker running between us just because he had to kill a deer. I never see a buck that isn't on the move. If I'm sitting on stand they run past me escaping somebody somewhere else. If I'm walking they jump up and run away from me. It's hard to see brow tines in those situations. I don't have a deer lease with food plots where I have all the time I need. You just come from a different experience and you'll never understand the pressured world I hunt in
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Post by Loggy on Jun 29, 2023 6:34:56 GMT -5
I wonder if the greatly expanded archery seasons coupled with its ever creeping increased buck kill(percentage wise) compared to rifle season buck kills)has contributed to this?? Obviously there are less & less of these AR resultant "so called" quality bucks left for about half of PA's hunters(nonarchery) on opening day Regular Season? I have no idea....just a thought. I'm sure much more goes into the origin of HB 493 than meets the eye.
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Post by ridgecommander on Jun 29, 2023 6:38:16 GMT -5
I never see a buck that isn't on the move. If I'm sitting on stand they run past me escaping somebody somewhere else. If I'm walking they jump up and run away from me. It's hard to see brow tines in those situations. I don't have a deer lease with food plots where I have all the time I need. You just come from a different experience and you'll never understand the pressured world I hunt in I can pretty much guarantee that bucks on even the heaviest pressured land are not either running or bedded during the daylight. I can understand most getting out of dodge if you are stil hunting but stand hunting it sounds like you are not hunting security areas.
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Post by Loggy on Jun 29, 2023 6:40:38 GMT -5
Nah....if one can't count points, they don't belong in the woods. And now they have to know the difference between a 2.75 inch spike or a 3 inch spike. Yeah, we just want to shoot at anything..... Sorry, I had an azzhole shoot at a spiker running between us just because he had to kill a deer. I never see a buck that isn't on the move. If I'm sitting on stand they run past me escaping somebody somewhere else. If I'm walking they jump up and run away from me. It's hard to see brow tines in those situations. I don't have a deer lease with food plots where I have all the time I need. You just come from a different experience and you'll never understand the pressured world I hunt in Mike raises a valid point. IMO....If some just spent opening regular season week on SGL 134(Sullivan County Camp Mountain) or other comparable public land....their blinders would come off and they'd come away with a totally different tune.
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Post by moosemike on Jun 29, 2023 6:48:42 GMT -5
Last time I had a legal buck come walking past instead of running, trotting, or loping was 2008. From what I can remember. They've all been on the move since then except for some spikes
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Post by ridgecommander on Jun 29, 2023 6:52:57 GMT -5
I wonder if the greatly expanded archery seasons coupled with its ever creeping increased buck kill(percentage wise) compared to rifle season buck kills)has contributed to this?? Obviously there are less & less of these AR resultant quality bucks left for about half of PA's hunters(nonarchery) on opening day Regular Season? I have no idea....just a thought. I'm sure much more goes into the origin of HB 493 than meets the eye. Too many conflate percent of harvest with percent of population. The antlered archery harvest has gone up about 15,000 since 2016, as an example. On a statewide level, that is pretty much a dud. We have lost 100s of thousands of rifle only hunters as well. The perception may be that there are a lot less buck available during rifle season but the reality is there are plenty out there but many fewer hunters trying to shoot one.
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