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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 30, 2021 14:26:26 GMT -5
There's no doubt that a 500 fps crossbow coming out of the gate will have tech issues just as the ones did that shot 400 fps.I was told that would be the upper limit and few hunters would use them.That was nonsense.I have no issue with crossbows but there has to be a limit. Who told you that 400fps would be the upper limit? Over 10 years ago the Bowtech Stryker was going 420fps.
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Post by dougl on Dec 30, 2021 15:17:08 GMT -5
The stryker was 380.I bought one 8 years ago.You said that you didn't see the technology getting much faster because the crossbows wouldn't hold up and they were too hard for people to cock.I'm sure you forget saying that just like you tried to say that crossbows didn't have a big advantage over compounds and just like you said you would support limitations.
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 30, 2021 16:21:12 GMT -5
The stryker was 380.I bought one 8 years ago. You should know a little bit more about the Stryker series before trying to make a point about speed. Yours was a 380. Bowtech had a Stryker crossbow that shot over 420 before you bought yours. I remember it well. What I actually said was that just as compounds reached a speed cap, so will crossbows at some point before other technologies needed to be brought into the equation, some of which would be illegal like levers, springs, air, etc..... In 12 years the fastest crossbow went from 420 to 500. They are getting heavier and massively expensive. They will make up a tiny percent of the market share. As for the comment that I said crossbows didn't have an advantage. Lie. I have always said crossbows are easier to use, have higher success rates and have many advantages. As for limitations, that depends on the situation at the time. Currently, I would not. In the future, maybe. It is purely speculative.
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Post by cspot on Dec 30, 2021 19:24:48 GMT -5
The other thing about these fast narrow bows (from what I have seen and heard) is that they are very difficult on strings. How many shots are you likely to get out of a set a strings? The maintenance cost you a fortune as well. In 1997 I bought a Mathews feathermax.It was way lighter than my current bow,quiet and shot 290 fps.I'm not sure if I ever missed a deer with that bow.My current bow is a Mathews VXR.It's way heavier,a little quieter,alot less hand shock but it's shooting 305fps,not that big of a difference.My range and my effectiveness hasn't increased one bit.My 3D scores are still within a few points of what they always were.What has changed is the quality of string materials,arrows and rests.String stretch is a thing of the past once you break them in,peep rotation is not a problem anymore and the rests really allow you to tune for perfect BH flight. There's no doubt that a 500 fps crossbow coming out of the gate will have tech issues just as the ones did that shot 400 fps.I was told that would be the upper limit and few hunters would use them.That was nonsense.I have no issue with crossbows but there has to be a limit. Why set limits? Why is their a need when very soon there won't be enough hunters to fill enough tags to get the desired kill? We are very close to having bow season in this state go from mid Sept till Feb with no breaks. Our rifle season had 2 high impact days (Sat-Sun) added to it. They just increased the number of doe tags that hunters can get. Opportunities will continue to increase. If someone kills a deer with a 500 FPS crossbow what difference does it make to you? There is technology out there that I don't use and others do and it doesn't negatively impact me one bit. For the record the crossbows that I am using are shooting in the 300 to 350 FPS range and I really don't have a desire to shoot 500FPS. Let's be honest in that if one has a decent amount of time to hunt and the desire to go that you can pretty much shoot as many deer as you want throughout all the seasons. I limit myself more than weapons or seasons limit me.
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Post by Loggy on Dec 30, 2021 20:10:49 GMT -5
In 1997 I bought a Mathews feathermax.It was way lighter than my current bow,quiet and shot 290 fps.I'm not sure if I ever missed a deer with that bow.My current bow is a Mathews VXR.It's way heavier,a little quieter,alot less hand shock but it's shooting 305fps,not that big of a difference.My range and my effectiveness hasn't increased one bit.My 3D scores are still within a few points of what they always were.What has changed is the quality of string materials,arrows and rests.String stretch is a thing of the past once you break them in,peep rotation is not a problem anymore and the rests really allow you to tune for perfect BH flight. There's no doubt that a 500 fps crossbow coming out of the gate will have tech issues just as the ones did that shot 400 fps.I was told that would be the upper limit and few hunters would use them.That was nonsense.I have no issue with crossbows but there has to be a limit. Why set limits? Why is their a need when very soon there won't be enough hunters to fill enough tags to get the desired kill? We are very close to having bow season in this state go from mid Sept till Feb with no breaks. Our rifle season had 2 high impact days (Sat-Sun) added to it. They just increased the number of doe tags that hunters can get. Opportunities will continue to increase. If someone kills a deer with a 500 FPS crossbow what difference does it make to you? There is technology out there that I don't use and others do and it doesn't negatively impact me one bit. For the record the crossbows that I am using are shooting in the 300 to 350 FPS range and I really don't have a desire to shoot 500FPS. Let's be honest in that if one has a decent amount of time to hunt and the desire to go that you can pretty much shoot as many deer as you want throughout all the seasons. I limit myself more than weapons or seasons limit me. CS....curious in PA are you hunting private land or public land??
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Post by cspot on Dec 30, 2021 20:40:12 GMT -5
Why set limits? Why is their a need when very soon there won't be enough hunters to fill enough tags to get the desired kill? We are very close to having bow season in this state go from mid Sept till Feb with no breaks. Our rifle season had 2 high impact days (Sat-Sun) added to it. They just increased the number of doe tags that hunters can get. Opportunities will continue to increase. If someone kills a deer with a 500 FPS crossbow what difference does it make to you? There is technology out there that I don't use and others do and it doesn't negatively impact me one bit. For the record the crossbows that I am using are shooting in the 300 to 350 FPS range and I really don't have a desire to shoot 500FPS. Let's be honest in that if one has a decent amount of time to hunt and the desire to go that you can pretty much shoot as many deer as you want throughout all the seasons. I limit myself more than weapons or seasons limit me. CS....curious in PA are you hunting private land or public land?? I hunt private. My point is that most get a buck tag and about 2-3 doe tags. If you archery hunt 5 or 6 evenings a week, take a week off during the rut, hunt 3-4 days in rifle season, and then hunt the late season some you should be able to fill those tags most years without too much trouble. You should be able to do that public or private. This would assume that you take legal deer regardless of size as the opportunities present themselves. Most of us are selective somewhat with both the size of the antlers and the size of the deer with antlerless.
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Post by Dutch on Dec 31, 2021 9:34:57 GMT -5
In defense of the crossbow, I must say it sure opened up an opportunity for my 11 year old great niece. She really hates loud guns and recoil. Handed her the crossbow and she was off! She's coming today to borrow it for tomorrow. Imagine that.
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Post by cspot on Dec 31, 2021 15:25:23 GMT -5
In defense of the crossbow, I must say it sure opened up an opportunity for my 11 year old great niece. She really hates loud guns and recoil. Handed her the crossbow and she was off! She's coming today to borrow it for tomorrow. Imagine that. That is the biggest benefit to the crossbow. Really offers an opportunity for young kids to enjoy archery hunting.
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Post by Dutch on Dec 31, 2021 17:34:08 GMT -5
In defense of the crossbow, I must say it sure opened up an opportunity for my 11 year old great niece. She really hates loud guns and recoil. Handed her the crossbow and she was off! She's coming today to borrow it for tomorrow. Imagine that. That is the biggest benefit to the crossbow. Really offers an opportunity for young kids to enjoy archery hunting. Now she wants to go shed hunting in the spring! And her mom wants to go along! I'm thinking we are going to have a family shed hunting day in early April
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Post by cspot on Dec 31, 2021 17:56:45 GMT -5
That is the biggest benefit to the crossbow. Really offers an opportunity for young kids to enjoy archery hunting. Now she wants to go shed hunting in the spring! And her mom wants to go along! I'm thinking we are going to have a family shed hunting day in early April You thinking of taking her Spring gobbler? My kids started hunting them with a crossbow. Pretty exciting for them with the birds gobbling even if you don't see them. From a ground blind the crossbow with a good rest really isn't much of disadvantage over the shotgun.
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Post by Dutch on Jan 2, 2022 15:54:34 GMT -5
Now she wants to go shed hunting in the spring! And her mom wants to go along! I'm thinking we are going to have a family shed hunting day in early April You thinking of taking her Spring gobbler? My kids started hunting them with a crossbow. Pretty exciting for them with the birds gobbling even if you don't see them. From a ground blind the crossbow with a good rest really isn't much of disadvantage over the shotgun. I'm not a turkey hunter, but my brother might consider that
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Post by dougl on Jan 3, 2022 8:54:09 GMT -5
Crossbows are not evil and neither are those who use them.They're just starting to get out of control.
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Post by fleroo on Jan 3, 2022 9:57:13 GMT -5
You mentioned archery eventually running Sep thru Feb ? YIKES !
I agree with what I quoted above from your prior post, TIME is a big component for those that wish to take advantage of any additional time. BUT, going back to Sep-Feb..... why ARCHERY only ? This has been my "grousing" point in so many posts. FLINTLOCK is nil, almost meaningless when it comes to buck harvest, for a couple of reasons. 1. Time of season - January... when most legal buck in MOST units are already gone. 2. Complexity of weapon - compared to an inline, rifle, or xbow (even compound), they are hard to get to deploy, and for most, inaccurate IF they do deploy. 3. Duration of season - Flinters have 3 lousy weeks, in often lousy weather, to try and target a hammer, slammer, frog and toad.
Ridge graciously has proposed a "limited draw" in the early fall season, to incorporate not only Flintlock, but ALL muzzleloaders, to be able to harvest a buck. Well, we don't need to add what is basically a rifle, in an early season. If so, just let a lucky draw winner use his -06. Not much of a difference. We also don't need a "limited draw" to afford Flinters the ability to harvest a buck in the early fall, 7 week season.
It's kinda self-serving, for those that wield compounds/x-bows, to say that ARCHERY may be expanded to run Sep-Feb, no ? Sep thru Feb sounds like a great idea, if you make that lengthy time component "Traditional Only" (there's that ugly "T" word). That's right, make that season eligible for those that use Flintlocks, Longbows, Recurves, etc... Sell separate stamps for those that wish to use TRADITIONAL equipment, at a menial cost. Say $5. That way you can track participation... or potential participation ? Have a reporting component for TRADITIONAL equipment, so you can track harvest, and see just how non-impactful that equipment really is.
My proposal or WISH, will go over like a lead balloon with most, not all, of the 360,000 archers that would never want that in their cushy season.
And I know what's coming next. Join the archery ranks. Buy a x-bow. Well, it ain't in my fiber. I don't want to. I tried that in the late 70's, early 80's. Hack-ass indeed.
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Post by fleroo on Jan 3, 2022 10:08:27 GMT -5
I can care less either way, but your great niece can, and could have been proficient with a 45-50 lb. pull compound bow also. There are 11 yr. old, female, competitive archery champeens.
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Post by dougl on Jan 3, 2022 11:53:25 GMT -5
In defense of Dutch's niece,she may have not had the desire or a mentor to be proficient with a compound at that age.In that case,the crossbow helped get her in the woods.She may or may not become a lifelong hunter but she will most likely respect and support hunting because of the chance she was given.My son started shooting a bow when he was 5 or 6 and he started hunting with a compound at 11 and killed his first bow buck with one that year.He was shooting about 43lbs at 23" and that set-up was borderline.
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Post by dougl on Jan 3, 2022 11:54:28 GMT -5
I watched a terrible show this weekend where a kid,probably no older than 7 shot a buck with a crossbow at 72 yards.
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Post by ridgecommander on Jan 3, 2022 12:00:13 GMT -5
I watched a terrible show this weekend where a kid,probably no older than 7 shot a buck with a crossbow at 72 yards. Awesome! Hopefully it was a toad and the kid smoked it!
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Post by fleroo on Jan 3, 2022 12:09:33 GMT -5
More than likely a "Hammer". On them thar shows, the "Toads" are reserved for the dudes that own/manage the land, and can get footage of their "Target Buck", to sell whatever it is they sell on their respective shows. They also allow some others, including their kids, to harvest the "cull" buck on their property. Which more than likely, that cull would be Fleroo's buck of a lifetime. That sh!t is fantasy for MOST PA hunters. However, MOST PA hunters don't realize it's a fantasy. LOL
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Post by fleroo on Jan 3, 2022 12:12:21 GMT -5
That said. If Shemane Nugent is selling a 50 lb. bag of "Power Rack" buck Oats on Ted's show.... I'm buying it..... maybe.
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Post by ridgecommander on Jan 3, 2022 12:16:40 GMT -5
Might have been "curly", "Lefty", or the "weak nine" that they had a thousand pictures of. As long as its "mature" it is on the hit list.
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Post by fleroo on Jan 3, 2022 13:34:03 GMT -5
I think it's uber-obvious. I've always been a big fan of "immature".
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Post by Dutch on Jan 3, 2022 20:39:51 GMT -5
Crossbows are not evil and neither are those who use them.They're just starting to get out of control. Agreed
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Post by davet on Jan 4, 2022 7:16:06 GMT -5
Crossbows are not evil and neither are those who use them.They're just starting to get out of control. I don't understand this statement. What does "out of control" mean? If you're referring to the increasing speed and distance that a crossbow is accurate when compared to say, ten years ago I agree they are more accurate over a greater range. But I don't know if "out of control" would be a good way to describe them. Back in the day when compound bows first came out, many conventional hunters sneered at the easy to use compounds vs recurves. But that evolved to the recurve guys now in the minority. If the PGC believes to many deer are being taken with sticks, they will just shorten the season. Those new high speed crossbows still must contend with the weight factor and (like always) the tiny tree stick that deflects the arrow on the way to the intended target. As always, closer is better.
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Post by Dutch on Jan 4, 2022 7:27:12 GMT -5
I can care less either way, but your great niece can, and could have been proficient with a 45-50 lb. pull compound bow also. There are 11 yr. old, female, competitive archery champeens. I'm really don't care what you think. They are legal. I know you dislike bowhunters, that's very clear, but I now have two young girls that are excited about hunting. I don't care how you slice it, THATS A WIN FOR HUNTING.
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Post by dougl on Jan 4, 2022 9:20:12 GMT -5
Crossbows are not evil and neither are those who use them.They're just starting to get out of control. I don't understand this statement. What does "out of control" mean? If you're referring to the increasing speed and distance that a crossbow is accurate when compared to say, ten years ago I agree they are more accurate over a greater range. But I don't know if "out of control" would be a good way to describe them. Back in the day when compound bows first came out, many conventional hunters sneered at the easy to use compounds vs recurves. But that evolved to the recurve guys now in the minority. If the PGC believes to many deer are being taken with sticks, they will just shorten the season. Those new high speed crossbows still must contend with the weight factor and (like always) the tiny tree stick that deflects the arrow on the way to the intended target. As always, closer is better. Archery is a close range sport that has minimal impact,wgich is why the season is regulated to be long.These crossbows are easily 60+ yard weapons.They're easily double the effective range of the avergae guy with a compound,easily.
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