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Post by Dutch on Feb 25, 2013 18:28:06 GMT -5
www.publicnewsservice.org/index.php?%2Fcontent%2Farticle%2F30666-1Dead coyotes in truck bed. Reserve, NM. Photo courtesy: Animal Protection of New Mexico. February 6, 2013 SANTA FE, N.M. - A bill which would put an end to animal-killing contests in New Mexico is receiving the support of the Rio Grande chapter of the Sierra Club. House Bill 316 is the result of widespread dismay over a recent killing contest promoted by a gun store in Los Lunas. The highly publicized contest was only one of numerous such contests held around the state. "House Bill 316 outlaws any organized competition to go out and kill large numbers of animals for a prize," said bill sponsor Rep. Nate Cote, D- Doña Ana and Otero counties, a hunter himself. "There are penalties involved, for example, up to a $5,000 fine." While opposition is expected from those who use the contests to raise funds, Cote believes he will get a lot of support for the bill, not only from groups concerned about animals and the environment but also from hunters and people who fish. Animal-killing contests reflect badly on New Mexico and on sportsmen, he said, calling the contests "unethical" and charging that they counteract the balance of nature. Ecologically speaking, said Ray Powell, commissioner of the New Mexico State Land Office, animal killing contests are "nonsensical." "If you have a specific predator that's causing a problem for domesticated livestock or companion animals, you deal with that animal specifically, quickly and humanely," he said. "That's very different than blowing these animals up and filling your pickup truck with carcasses." Powell said these killing contests disrupt the natural order of things, which, in the case of coyotes, benefits from rodent control and reducing the occurrence of plague and diseases native to New Mexico. Additionally, he said, these contests create a vacuum, drawing younger coyotes to move in en masse. Despite the spotlight turned on the coyote-killing contest held in November, Mary Katherine Ray, wildlife chairwoman for the Sierra Club chapter, mentioned a high school on the eastern plains that sponsored one to raise money for the track team. She said this is not at all unusual around the state. "They're actually very common. But mostly they don't like to publicize what's going on because I think they realize the public is pretty outraged by it. You can sometimes find allusions to them on predator Web sites." The text of the bill is online at nmlegis.gov.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2013 18:49:49 GMT -5
And some thought all they wanted was to ban pigeon shoots, right? If we support them on that they will let us alone. Keep on hoping. They ain't gonna quit 'til hunting is banned in all forms.
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Post by Dutch on Feb 25, 2013 18:52:03 GMT -5
Kath, Stroupy, and I got into a "discussion" via Facebook the other night with a most hateful anti hunter. She pretty much wished us all dead.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2013 18:58:46 GMT -5
Those people are nuts hey put animals life's ahead of human life's talk about creepy!!!!
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Post by dougell on Feb 25, 2013 19:12:10 GMT -5
And some thought all they wanted was to ban pigeon shoots, right? If we support them on that they will let us alone. Keep on hoping. They ain't gonna quit 'til hunting is banned in all forms. I respectfully disagree George.Pigeon shoots have absolutely nothing to do with hunting.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2013 19:15:52 GMT -5
I felt the same way you do Doug until the last few months doing some research on these nut cases they will get them banned and then they will see it as a big win and then move on to pheasants hunts. Whats the difference if the game commission stocks pheasants and then you go out and flush them up and shoot them not much difference at all!
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Post by Dutch on Feb 25, 2013 19:16:48 GMT -5
Doug, lets roll over, and throw in with them to pass legislation in PA and have shoots banned.
When we hand them that, what will their next move be?
I personally don't like pigeon shoots, but there is little differerence between that and a commercial regulated shooting ground or a canned hunt. Then, when we consider the stocking of pheasants......
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Post by dougell on Feb 25, 2013 19:36:33 GMT -5
Man oh man,I don't want to get into this debate again lol.There is a huge difference between shooting domestic stock that's released at the time of a shoot vs hunting the most challenging animal in this country.One is hunting at it's finest and one is shooting.
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Post by dougell on Feb 25, 2013 19:39:23 GMT -5
Stroupy,I actually strongly dislike stocked pheasants and would never hunt for them.With that said,there's still a big difference because they can hide and run.A pigeon only gets away if someone misses.I think it's a disgusting practice and those who partake do more harm to hunting than anyone who opposes it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2013 19:54:10 GMT -5
Give them an inch they will want to take a foot. I personally feel the pigeon shoots are taking attention away from everything else sort of like a blocker for us can't ever side with those against us. They say even most hunter's support this that's never good to hear.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2013 20:06:30 GMT -5
And some thought all they wanted was to ban pigeon shoots, right? If we support them on that they will let us alone. Keep on hoping. They ain't gonna quit 'til hunting is banned in all forms. I respectfully disagree George.Pigeon shoots have absolutely nothing to do with hunting. I didn't say they did, Doug, but my point is still valid. They start with pigeon shoots and then graduate to any sort of hunting they wish, say doves? When do cute and furry little rabbits become the animal of their choise to ban from hunting? And deer are also bambis, aren't they? It was easy on pigeon shoots because so many "hunters" agree with you that they have nothing to do with hunting so go ahead and ban them.
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Post by Dutch on Feb 25, 2013 20:08:01 GMT -5
Man oh man,I don't want to get into this debate again lol.There is a huge difference between shooting domestic stock that's released at the time of a shoot vs hunting the most challenging animal in this country.One is hunting at it's finest and one is shooting. Yer to easy. ;D
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Post by ridgecommander on Feb 25, 2013 21:12:12 GMT -5
And some thought all they wanted was to ban pigeon shoots, right? If we support them on that they will let us alone. Keep on hoping. They ain't gonna quit 'til hunting is banned in all forms. I respectfully disagree George.Pigeon shoots have absolutely nothing to do with hunting. Both put and take. Both the target of antis. Same as trout that are stocked in waters that are not capable of holding them over. Pheasants are raised and released in this state for the sole purpose of hunters shooting them. The antis are trying to set the stage with pigeon shoots leading the way. They already have hunters on their side. A few here.
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Post by dougell on Feb 26, 2013 8:50:40 GMT -5
Pigeons aren't put and take.They release them in front of a shooter.How would you feel about guy's following the stocking truck and just wacking them as they fly out of the crate?Pigeon shoots have no more to do with hunting than the humane society euthanizing stray dogs.Pigeons shoots and any type of "canned hunts"put actual hunters in a very poor light to non-hunters.Those that partake in these activities do far more harm to the hunting community than those who oppose them.
Give them an inch and they take a mile.My take is why even give them a reason?It's easy to defend hunting as a necessary tool.It's much harder to defend shooting pigeons for an easy thrill.
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Post by Dutch on Feb 26, 2013 11:11:32 GMT -5
My cousin retired from the PGC Food and Cover. Years ago, they had a pheasant farm towards Philly or something. He told me that guys followed the stocking truck from the pheasant farm, clear back to Lancaster County!
Said, they started putting those bicycle flags on the trucks so hunters knew where the stocking trucks were and they would not shoot towards the trucks when the birds were released!
He said he had been peppered by shot a few times while releasing birds.
Near the end of his career, he was cutting trees on a SGL and one fell on him, breaking both legs. He didn't get out unscathed. LOL
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Post by dougell on Feb 26, 2013 11:43:23 GMT -5
You're really trying to reel me in lol.I'm not a fan of our put and take pheasant program either.For the guys with dogs,I can understand.Otherwise it's a bad joke.
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Post by Dutch on Feb 26, 2013 11:56:14 GMT -5
I'm getting a couple chukars for this Sunday for my brothers little pup to train on. Just get a kick out of watching the dogs, as long as it's OPD's. (other people's dogs)
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Post by dougell on Feb 26, 2013 17:11:35 GMT -5
I know twp different groups of guys that hunt stocked birds.There's the guys who have dogs and their interest lies mainly in watching the dogs work.I can can respect that.Then there's the groups that have to know exactly when the stocking truck is pulling in.They shoot every bird they can and it doesn't matter if they're in the air or on the ground.Personally,I'd rather see my lisence dollars being used on a different project.
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Post by Dutch on Feb 26, 2013 17:13:39 GMT -5
I 100% understand what you are saying.
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Post by ridgecommander on Feb 26, 2013 17:25:25 GMT -5
.How would you feel about guy's following the stocking truck and just wacking them as they fly out of the crate? Pheasants? Not my bag but if someone wishes to do it, no problems. Same as pulling trout out of the hole after the stocking truck leaves. It is put and take. Nothing more or less. Problem is many hunters refer to any hunt behind a fence as a canned hunt and talk down to those that choose to do it. There are true canned hunts which take place in very small enclosures. Then there are high fence operations that are rather large with the fence never a factor. Many of the concessions in South Africa are high fence and it is far from a canned hunt. Some high fence hunting operations are the reason why certain species are still around in sustainable numbers. I believe that hunters bashing hunters with a broad brush over so called "canned hunts" is very harmful to our sport. There is a distinct difference in the various high fence operations. I would agree that placing a animal is a very small enclosure and then shooting it is a black eye. I would strongly disagree that the many true high fence operations with good acreage do any harm at all. Some hunters lump em all together though. The greatest enemy is always those that are supposed to be on your side. Not the apparent opponent. Hunters are becoming that enemy from inside. Doug, even in the sporting world that lives up to your vision of what hunting is, the antis would continue to attack every part of it. They have chnaged their strategy and are using hunters to help their cause. With much more success I might add.
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Post by Dutch on Feb 26, 2013 17:32:58 GMT -5
Well, after dealing with Arelene Steinberg on Facebook, I'd say you are right, plus, some of them, like her, want us dead, no matter what we kill or how we kill it. There is no distinction.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2013 17:55:50 GMT -5
Pigeon shoots have no more to do with hunting than the humane society euthanizing stray dogs. Pigeons shoots and any type of "canned hunts" .Those that partake in these activities do far more harm to the hunting community than those who oppose them. You nailed it...these hunts only hurt our image...how could they help? We don't have to support a ban but just avoid these hunts & they will disapear. Good ridance.
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Post by dougell on Feb 27, 2013 9:10:32 GMT -5
Well, after dealing with Arelene Steinberg on Facebook, I'd say you are right, plus, some of them, like her, want us dead, no matter what we kill or how we kill it. There is no distinction. Dutch,the extremist anti-hunters are nut jobs and most rational people look at them that way.They aren't the one's that concern me.The one's that concern me are the non-hunters who really don't put a lot of thought into hunting.They're the one's we need on our side and when hunters make themselves look like fools,we loose some of those people.Acting in a professional manner and displaying ethics and integrity strengthens our cause.Shooting pigeons that are let out of a cage doesn't help that image and those who choose to promote that crap further divide us from the non-hunters who we need. I have a fair amount of experience dealing with both anti-hunters and concerned non-hunters.I can tell you without any doubt what so ever that there's a very thin line between those people looking at hunters as goons and being respected.I spent almost 5 years on a wildlife committee trying to convince an entire community that hunting was the answer to our problems.Since I was the only bowhunter on the committee when this was going on,it was my job to sell hunting as the answer.A small group of lunatic anti-hunters would show up at every meeting and makes fools of themselves.Nobody paid them any attention.However,there was a very large group of non-hunters that has very misguided but real concerns about hunting.We need to win those people over,which I'm proud to say,we did in that case.There's dozens of hunting shows on TV these days that show hunters doing all kinds of crap that really turns this group against hunters.I'm firm in my belief that these people do way more harm than good and sorry,but I won't be a hypocrit and support most of that nonsense.The way we act and the actions we choose to take make a much bigger difference with the future of hunting that blindly supporting a practice that most people disaprove of.
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Post by dougell on Feb 27, 2013 9:16:55 GMT -5
.How would you feel about guy's following the stocking truck and just wacking them as they fly out of the crate? Pheasants? Not my bag but if someone wishes to do it, no problems. Same as pulling trout out of the hole after the stocking truck leaves. It is put and take. Nothing more or less. Problem is many hunters refer to any hunt behind a fence as a canned hunt and talk down to those that choose to do it. There are true canned hunts which take place in very small enclosures. Then there are high fence operations that are rather large with the fence never a factor. Many of the concessions in South Africa are high fence and it is far from a canned hunt. Some high fence hunting operations are the reason why certain species are still around in sustainable numbers. I believe that hunters bashing hunters with a broad brush over so called "canned hunts" is very harmful to our sport. There is a distinct difference in the various high fence operations. I would agree that placing a animal is a very small enclosure and then shooting it is a black eye. I would strongly disagree that the many true high fence operations with good acreage do any harm at all. Some hunters lump em all together though. The greatest enemy is always those that are supposed to be on your side. Not the apparent opponent. Hunters are becoming that enemy from inside. Doug, even in the sporting world that lives up to your vision of what hunting is, the antis would continue to attack every part of it. They have chnaged their strategy and are using hunters to help their cause. With much more success I might add. Gene,if someone wants to shoot a pigeon flying out of a cvage for a thrill or shoot a ram or pig in a small fence,that's not hunting.It's a bad joke that portrays hunters and mindless idiots,even though it has absolutely nothing to with hunting. I take pride in being a hunting and live by a certain code of ethics.I don't expect nor do I care if everyone has the same outlook as me.There are lines that if we cross,we alienate people who we need support from.I won't support that stuff,just for the sake of supporting it.
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Post by TusseyMtman on Feb 27, 2013 9:26:25 GMT -5
DCE, the people in the middle get no attention on any issue, even though we are the majority. The media focuses on the extremes of both sides because of the emotion and drama. Another tactic the extremists like to use is labeling you as "helping the other side" if you disagree with their position. I have heard recently that if I oppose baiting I am helping the anti's. Now, support shooting birds as they fly out of a cage, or you are helping the anti's. Really? I can think for myself.
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