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Post by dougell on Mar 23, 2020 10:47:56 GMT -5
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Post by Dutch on Mar 23, 2020 10:54:34 GMT -5
This will be interesting
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Post by ridgecommander on Mar 23, 2020 11:06:45 GMT -5
I prefer to reserve judgement until cases are heard. Too many careers and reputations ruined these days simply due to accusations.
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Post by dougell on Mar 23, 2020 11:07:00 GMT -5
It is.The guy who reported them is actually a real good friend of mine.I just talked to him on Friday but he didn't say anything about it.
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Post by dougell on Mar 23, 2020 11:10:08 GMT -5
I prefer to reserve judgement until cases are heard. Too many careers and reputations ruined these days simply due to accusations. Yep,it's America and they'll get their day in court.I know the WCO on a casual basis and have dealt with him personally.He's not known as a real hard ass.I have zero doubt that they rode around,located the bull and got out and shot it.I also have zero doubt that they didn't think that was illegal as long as they were 25ft off the rd.
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Post by redarrow on Mar 23, 2020 11:56:41 GMT -5
We should reserve judgement 'til all facts come out.c But, if they were "road hunting" I hope they throw the book at all involved. Road hunters are among the lowest lifeforms in the world of hunters. The out fitter should know all the game laws and strictly abide by them, If this was a purposeful act, the guide's guiding days should be done.
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Post by fleroo on Mar 23, 2020 11:58:34 GMT -5
I wouldn't go THAT far. LOL
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Post by davet on Mar 23, 2020 12:00:04 GMT -5
Video's on many occasions can be interpreted more than one way.
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Post by dougell on Mar 23, 2020 12:18:46 GMT -5
The guy who reported it is a friend of mine.He works for a company that produces a show called TomBob outdoors.TomBob partners with the KECA who has a drawing for a an elk tag and a guided hunt with EC outfitters.They're all partners so he wouldn't have any type of axe to grind.While editing the footage,he saw what he thought was illegal behavior and notified the PGC.I'm pretty sure he has a good idea of what transpired since the camera man works for him.
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Post by redarrow on Mar 23, 2020 12:31:22 GMT -5
Video's on many occasions can be interpreted more than one way. If there was no wrong doing it is a shame that the hunter is being dragged trough this. It will be interesting to see this thing out to it's end.
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Post by ridgecommander on Mar 23, 2020 12:40:56 GMT -5
I have zero doubt that they rode around,located the bull and got out and shot it.I also have zero doubt that they didn't think that was illegal as long as they were 25ft off the rd. What is the language in the law regarding alighting game from a vehicle? Anybody?
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Post by redarrow on Mar 23, 2020 12:50:01 GMT -5
Road Hunting: It is unlawful to 1) hunt from a vehicle; 2) aid or assist another while hunting from a vehicle; 3) shoot at wildlife on a public road or right-of-way open to public travel; 4) shoot across a road unless the line of fire is high enough to preclude any danger to road users; and 5) alight from a vehicle and shoot at any wildlife until the shooter is at least 25 yards from the traveled portion of the roadway
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Post by dennyf on Mar 23, 2020 13:09:58 GMT -5
#1 and #5 are incompatible at best. If it's illegal to "hunt from a vehicle", then why would it become legal to get out of a vehicle, go 25 yards from the road and then shoot an animal?
BTW, all those years my departed huntin' bud and I killed thousands of woodchucks in Potter and Tioga, we drove around looking for them. Got out, went out into the fields to set up and sometimes spent an hour or more in one spot, picking them off as they emerged from their burrows.
One might make a case that this was road hunting, but if you're a dedicated varmint hunter, this is pretty much what happens. If you want to shoot 'chucks, you drive around vast ares of rural PA to find them, first. Lots of times we had a Game Warden or Dep. drive past. Few if any, ever stopped to caution us about anything, as long as we were far enough off the road. They were out there because someone had probably called to report lots of shooting and they wanted to check it out?
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Post by dougell on Mar 23, 2020 13:40:29 GMT -5
If you arrive at your destination and there's a deer standing there,you have to be 25 yards off the road to shoot it.If you locate one while driving.you can't shoot it period.
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Post by ridgecommander on Mar 23, 2020 13:47:40 GMT -5
Certainly a case can be made that as long as they were 25 yards off the road, it was a legal act. #5 does not say the game had to alighted from a stopped vehicle.
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Post by Loggy on Mar 23, 2020 13:48:26 GMT -5
Jack Manack's ECO guiding operation is first class to say the least!! I spent a week at ECO's camp as they guided me on my January Late Season Cow Hunt. My hunt was in Unit 2 and my primary ECO Guide was Lonnie Rensel but his Brother Kim was also guiding within the same unit. I was impressed how they both continually checked their GPS electronic maps along with supplied PGC unit/boundary maps to doubly ensure Units legal boundary line as some weren't too readily marked. Also, throughout my hunt I observed full compliance to all legal hunting regulations including safety standards. Based upon my experience of hunting with these fine guides/sportsmen.... I wouldn't be surprised that there's much more to the story supporting all charges being dropped.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2020 13:50:17 GMT -5
If you arrive at your destination and there's a deer standing there,you have to be 25 yards off the road to shoot it.If you locate one while driving.you can't shoot it period. It doesn't say that, Doug. The exact wording is: (It is unlawful to) 5) alight from a vehicle and shoot at any wildlife until the shooter is at leas 25 yards from the traveled portion of the roadway. So, as this is written, you could be driving down a rural road, see a deer standing on the other side of a field, continue on the road until the deer could not see your vehicle, park it, alight from the vehicle, walk into the area to a point 25 yards or more from the road, set up, and shoot the deer if you have a legal tag for it. Whether one considers this ethical or not is another question. You could be charged with a road hunting violation, but I suspect you could beat that one. The part of the law that deals with road hunting states that it is unlawful to hunt from a vehicle. If one wished to parse a point, if I drive to a state game lands parking lot and park my vehicle there, walk a mile into the woods and kill a deer, I technically was hunting from a vehicle. Just in case anyone thinks I might get caught in such a situation, think again. That is not how I hunt.
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Post by turkeykiller on Mar 23, 2020 13:54:01 GMT -5
If a hunter spots an animal while ridin in a vehicle, it doesn't matter if that critter is 2 hundred yards of the road, or how many yards you walk away from the road to take a shot, technaclly you can be charged with road huntin. You used the vehicle to locate the critter.
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Post by dougell on Mar 23, 2020 13:58:47 GMT -5
If you arrive at your destination and there's a deer standing there,you have to be 25 yards off the road to shoot it.If you locate one while driving.you can't shoot it period. It doesn't say that, Doug. The exact wording is: (It is unlawful to) 5) alight from a vehicle and shoot at any wildlife until the shooter is at leas 25 yards from the traveled portion of the roadway. So, as this is written, you could be driving down a rural road, see a deer standing on the other side of a field, continue on the road until the deer could not see your vehicle, park it, alight from the vehicle, walk into the area to a point 25 yards or more from the road, set up, and shoot the deer if you have a legal tag for it. Whether one considers this ethical or not is another question. Not totally accurate. You could be cited under Title 34, § 2308, for using a vehicle to hunt for / locate game even if you are more than 25 yards from a public highway (§ 2504). See applicable code below. § 2308. Unlawful devices and methods. (a) General rule.--Except as otherwise provided in this title, it is unlawful for any person to hunt or aid, abet, assist or conspire to hunt any game or wildlife through the use of: ... (7) A vehicle or conveyance of any kind or its attachment propelled by other than manpower. Nothing in this subsection shall pertain to any of the following: (i) A motorboat or sailboat if the motor has been completely shut off or sail furled, and the progress thereof has ceased. (ii) A motorized wheelchair if the person has been issued a permit to hunt under section 2923(a.1) (relating to disabled person permits).
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Post by dougell on Mar 23, 2020 14:17:43 GMT -5
OK.you can't use a motorized vehicle to locate game period.If a guy is driving through a field on an ATV and he sees a deer,he just broke the law if he get's off and shoots it and since there's no road in a field,it does matter how far away from the ATV he was.
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Post by dougell on Mar 23, 2020 14:36:04 GMT -5
Here's EC outfitters facebook write up from the hunt.They claim to have gone in after the bull.No mention of hunting from a vehicle.
When we first met Richard Prentiss back on the 18th of August it was under an incredible set of circumstances. Rich had just, an hour or so previous to the drawing, purchased one single $25 chance for the 2019 KECA raffle tag...just one chance!
It was a day to remember for all, when his ticket was pulled out of the barrel and his name called. The crowd erupted, over the noise of a raging summertime thunderstorm, when it was realized Rich was there in attendance. The high fives, pats on the back, and hugs flowed all around as the hail and torrential rain pounded down on the grounds of the Elk Country Visitors Center. Rich's wife, Jennifer, was along that day as well as his grandson Jacob and Jacob's friend, Vincent.
We had a good meet with Rich that afternoon and with him living in Cogan Station, which is within an hour and half of the elk range, we knew the “on call” scenario would be in play if needed. Fast forward, almost a month, to the morning of September 10th. As luck would have it, while we filled the RMEF tag, one of the guys showing up to help with the extraction brought reports of a monstrous bull seen on private property. With a brief description of the rack and the location of the sighting we quickly knew which bull it was.
ECO has had a lot of history with this particular bull dating all the way back to 2014 when a friend found a set of sheds that made us go “hmmm...”. They were from a bull we had seen several times throughout the rut and we could really see the potential in this young bull. As we had kind of expected he eventually developed into a giant bull and one of the guys ended up with two more sets of sheds from him. Each year we thought there was no way he could get bigger and yet somehow he would show up on trail cam pics each summer bigger than the previous year.
We hunted this bull in the general November seasons for several years prior but we were never able to seal the deal due to private property access that no one is granted for elk hunting. A trail cam check, during the summer once again revealed him, and once again we couldn’t believe our eyes that he had somehow gotten bigger! His tell tale left side 4th point was again wide and palmated and his tines seemed like they had all gotten longer as well.
We made the call to Rich on a Wednesday morning to see if he would be available to come out and hunt for a few days. There was a loud “HELL YEAH” over the phone and the true sound of excitement in Rich’s voice. Rich made it into camp Wednesday afternoon and plans were laid for the evening hunt. The big bull was spotted that evening but even though there was no opportunity for a shot we knew we could get Rich in the mix over the next couple days.
Wednesday evening Rich’s nephew Brodie came into camp as he had a few days off of work to be able to share in his uncle's hunt. Thursday morning dawned with solid fog as is pretty much the norm for the area. There was bugling all around and several smaller bulls and cows seen but not the big bull we were looking for. The evening hunt came and went the same as the morning hunt minus the fog with several elk seen.
Friday morning dawned and we were happy to see that the fog was minimal and the bulls were bugling well. After a quick relocation from the area we started in at daylight, Rich was taking aim at the huge bull. Shortly after 7:20 Rich’s 6.5 Creedmore rang out as the bull was pushing cows at 136 yards. A second shot at around 175 yards and the bull was hit hard as he ran into the brush line.
As Rich neared the downed bull his emotions over came him as well as several of the ECO gang. We had a monstrous bull on the ground that we had many years of history with and it was almost bitter sweet. The bull that had gotten away several times, had been the main focus of shed hunting for years, and was a frequent topic of our camp fire stories had finally slipped up and we were able to close the chapter on this true PA monarch!
This harvest wouldn’t have been possible without the cooperation of private property owners and past relationships. We stress all the time to folks we talk to, not to overlook the public state forest and state game lands but at the same time you need to be able to keep an eye on key pieces of private property. We also would like to thank the KECA organization for their continued partnership with ECO.
When the KECA tag was first created and drafted into law in 2014 we had the idea to donate a six day fully guided elk hunt to KECA for the lucky winner. We knew we wanted to do something to be able to give back to the area that we all have grown to love so much. The KECA tag is often referred to as “the working man's tag” since it is awarded through a raffle as opposed to an auction. It only takes one entry to win and that’s just what Rich had in the barrel...one chance out of 10,580 total tickets sold!
Another worthy note to mention is that the monies from this year's raffle pushed the total tag proceeds over $1 million dollars raised since that first raffle in 2014. These funds raised stay right here in our great state and our elk range. These funds have allowed KECA to make several large capital improvements on the grounds of the Elk Country Visitors Center as well as implement a cooperative habitat improvement program across the elk range. These funds have also helped play a part in KECAs first permanent land protection purchase. Anyone who has purchased a KECA raffle tag in the past has played an integral role in conserving our elk range and also educating tens of thousands about the region as well...THANK YOU ALL!
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Post by dougell on Mar 23, 2020 14:40:43 GMT -5
A little local drama after the hunt.
Jay Hall Shame you guys didn’t have permission to hunt the private property you killed the bull on until after you killed it, but hey it’s your story tell it how you want. 7 Hide or report this Like · Reply · 24w Most Relevant is selected, so some replies may have been filtered out. Elk County Outfitters
Author Elk County Outfitters Jay, We figured you wouldn’t be able to resist chiming in here and we have been waiting for you to do so. While we haven’t taken an elk on this property in the last year or so we have taken several in the past including another Conservation tag bull. Admittedly we can say that the one thing we may have done wrong here was to not let the owner know we were on his property ahead of time. Once he realized it was us there were no issues whatsoever but we are adults and can admit when we should’ve went about things a different way and notified him first. The part of this recap that was intentional left out actually involves you and how you personally called Rich many many times to the point of what he described as borderline harassment. You also called multiple family members of his as well in an attempt to “sweeten the deal” apparently and have Rich hunt with another outfitter. We try to keep our hunt reports positive and uplifting and stay away from the “high school drama” but unfortunately we often get sucked into things in an effort to get facts straight and the truth out there. It’s truly a shame how some folks act...
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Post by davet on Mar 23, 2020 15:05:13 GMT -5
Here's what the Digets states:
Road Hunting: It is unlawful to 1) hunt from a vehicle; 2) shoot at wildlife on a public road or right-of-way open to public travel; 3) shoot across a road unless the line of fire is high enough to preclude any danger to road users; and 4) alight from a vehicle and shoot at any wildlife until the shooter is at least 25 yards from the traveled portion of the roadway. NOTE: These provisions do not prevent an individual, who may not qualify for a Disabled Person’s Permit, but who has health concerns or problems to sit in or near a legally “parked” ve- hicle and watch for game. Loaded firearms may never be placed in, on or against any motor vehicle at any time.
So....if your "deemed" to be "road hunting" your "hunting from a vehicle." Your driving down a public road, slowly, stopping often, looking left and right for game. I believe that is "road hunting", or hunting from a vehicle.
If your driving to your hunting location and a legal buck jumps in front of you, or you happen to spot a buck on a hillside\field that is to "hunting from a vehicle." While it's true you were going to your hunting spot...you were not in the act of "hunting." So, now if you can legally park your vehicle, you must move at least 25 yards away from it in order to take a shot. Also, you would obviously have to load your firearm in this process as well because a loaded long-arm in a vehicle is illegal.
So, you can "alight" from a vehicle....move the 25 yards....load your firearm and take a crack. As long as your not on the public road (on the traveled section). OTOH...if your creeping down the road looking for game......you are using a vehicle for hunting....or hunting from a vehicle.
That's my understanding.
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Post by dougell on Mar 23, 2020 15:10:29 GMT -5
No.If you see a deer and pull over to shoot it,you can be cited for road-hunting.If you see a gobbler,pull over and call it in,that's illegal because you used a vehicle to locate game.The 25 feet only applies when you arrive at your destination.People can argue all they want but the PGC wins these cases every year.
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Post by davet on Mar 23, 2020 18:16:46 GMT -5
No.If you see a deer and pull over to shoot it,you can be cited for road-hunting.If you see a gobbler,pull over and call it in,that's illegal because you used a vehicle to locate game.The 25 feet only applies when you arrive at your destination.People can argue all they want but the PGC wins these cases every year. Ok, what if your doing the "creeping along the road while looking in all directions for game"? Is that not hunting from a vehicle?
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