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Post by Dutch on Mar 23, 2020 18:51:41 GMT -5
OK.you can't use a motorized vehicle to locate game period.If a guy is driving through a field on an ATV and he sees a deer,he just broke the law if he get's off and shoots it and since there's no road in a field,it does matter how far away from the ATV he was. Actually, your bud, the former WCO in Elk county said you can be randomly driving, see a deer from an ATV, and shoot it. However, if you are actively searching, that makes it illegal |
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Post by turkeykiller on Mar 23, 2020 19:35:35 GMT -5
Who makes the decision whether your randomly drivin, or actively huntin
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Post by CoureurDeBois on Mar 23, 2020 20:09:24 GMT -5
Two things I’m sure of about this hunt and the harvest.
One is I don’t know the whole story
Two is that some judge is going to decide the out come.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2020 4:46:42 GMT -5
OK.you can't use a motorized vehicle to locate game period.If a guy is driving through a field on an ATV and he sees a deer,he just broke the law if he get's off and shoots it and since there's no road in a field,it does matter how far away from the ATV he was. Actually, your bud, the former WCO in Elk county said you can be randomly driving, see a deer from an ATV, and shoot it. However, if you are actively searching, that makes it illegal Now, exactly how does a game warden tell the difference? |
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Post by davet on Mar 24, 2020 5:42:51 GMT -5
Actually, your bud, the former WCO in Elk county said you can be randomly driving, see a deer from an ATV, and shoot it. However, if you are actively searching, that makes it illegal Now, exactly how does a game warden tell the difference? Observation vs a limited view? Innocent until proven guilty I always thought. If a Warden is watching a suspect creep slowly...stop...go...stop...creep...stop, get out and shoot. That's hunting from a vehicle. If a Warden hears a shot, drives up the hill to see a hunter the required distance from his vehicle (car...truck....atv) how can said Warden possibly claim hunter was "hunting" from a vehicle? Unless other evidence such as spent shell casings lying around the vehicle is there, the Warden has NOT shown a hunting from a vehicle incident. MHO |
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Post by Dutch on Mar 24, 2020 7:39:06 GMT -5
Actually, your bud, the former WCO in Elk county said you can be randomly driving, see a deer from an ATV, and shoot it. However, if you are actively searching, that makes it illegal Now, exactly how does a game warden tell the difference? I'm just relaying what RSB said years ago |
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Post by redarrow on Mar 24, 2020 8:29:47 GMT -5
Are loaded weapons permitted on/in moving vehicles?
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Post by CoureurDeBois on Mar 24, 2020 8:54:40 GMT -5
Are loaded weapons permitted on/in moving vehicles? The only two that I know about are. side arm with CC license. Farmers while on their own land. I have heard that hunters in the bed of a pickup moving from one area to another to set up a drive, but I wouldn't bet on that. |
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Post by dougell on Mar 24, 2020 9:01:40 GMT -5
I have heard that hunters in the bed of a pickup moving from one area to another to set up a drive, but I wouldn't bet on that.Big No there.About 20 years ago,a local 13 year old girl was riding in the back of a pick-up and shot and killed her father who was sitting in the front seat.
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Post by dennyf on Mar 24, 2020 9:10:31 GMT -5
These are but another "set of rules" designed to be intentionally vague enough to be interpreted however someone needs to interpret them, if they decided to file a citation. Interpretation is the key here.
If I am in the woods and see the same vehicle going by time after time down on the road, that is clearly "road hunting". Have seen it numerous times over the years in deer seasons, knew what it was without much critical thinking involved. There was a time this was far more prevalent than it has been lately, where I hunt. Partially do to higher gas prices, partially due to the most dedicated local adherents having croaked.
Remember when another "set of rules" once claimed camps and tents could be searched at will? That one bit the dust long ago. Probable cause is one legitimate reason to search, but that's also another interpretation issue. Just claiming an LEO could search whatever they wanted to search, didn't survive Constitutional protections.
I often drive a half mile from camp to hunt deer over near the NY line, on property I have permission to be on. If I'm on the way over there and see a deer out on other properties I have permission to hunt on, do I park the truck and mosey on out taking advantage of cover, to get into a position to shoot it - or just keep going and hope there are deer out where I was heading?
I also like to drive around a bit while at camp sometimes, glassing here and there. Like to watch others hunt, see where some deer might be in the area. It's how I have managed to see bedded deer escape notice of those pushing that same area. Two old boys that were once dedicated road hunters in our area, no longer hunt. They still drive around glassing and taking pics now, instead of shooting deer they find. Be tougher to cite them now for road hunting, since neither brings a rifle?
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Post by 3212 on Mar 24, 2020 11:20:18 GMT -5
Are loaded weapons permitted on/in moving vehicles? The only two that I know about are. side arm with CC license. Farmers while on their own land. I have heard that hunters in the bed of a pickup moving from one area to another to set up a drive, but I wouldn't bet on that. I know a fellow was cited for a loaded rifle while sitting with friends in the bed of a pickup.It was bear season. |
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Post by CoureurDeBois on Mar 24, 2020 14:38:56 GMT -5
The only two that I know about are. side arm with CC license. Farmers while on their own land. I have heard that hunters in the bed of a pickup moving from one area to another to set up a drive, but I wouldn't bet on that. I know a fellow was cited for a loaded rifle while sitting with friends in the bed of a pickup.It was bear season. Yep, that's another no no. A couple of years ago I used the cooler that was in the back of the truck as a seat for one of our bear drives. Where I parked the truck along the old logging road it gave me a nice elevated watch with a back rest over looking a ravine. Afterwards I got to thinking maybe I couldn't legally do that, so I brought it up as a question on the other site. Well everyones favorite retired game warden chimed in, figured he would, saw he got a permanent boot again, informing me of the no no. If I removed the cooler from the bed and sat it on the ground next to the truck, and as long as I didn't touch the truck I was good. IMO some of the game laws makes one scratch ones head. |
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Post by fleroo on Mar 31, 2020 9:20:14 GMT -5
You can shine alight until 11:00 PM MOST of the time. You can't shine alight during the 2 weeks of rifle season.
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Post by turkeykiller on Jun 22, 2020 16:36:06 GMT -5
I just read that the raffle winnin hunter and Elk Co. Outfitters were found guilty of various charges. A $5000 fine was issued to be split 3 ways between the 2 guides and Elk Co. Outfitters.
Also the Keystone Elk Alliance has severed all ties with Elk Co. Outfitters and is lookin for a replacement outfitter to handle the raffle hunt.
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Post by ridgecommander on Jun 24, 2020 6:41:50 GMT -5
www.centredaily.com/sports/outdoors/article243680757.htmlUnless there is major stuff missing in Mr Nales summary of the case, the case looks weak and based on speculation and assumptions. . I read the article and saw zero evidence that the hunter and his accompanying guide spotted the elk from the vehicle before pulling over. There was also zero evidence presented that the other "guide" informed the hunter and his immediate guide that elk were coming. Whispering after pulling off the road with a plan to hunt close by isn't unusual either. I have pulled off the road many times to park and had deer or turkeys staring at me from the hillside that I never saw while driving. If one does not locate game from the vehicle, then sees game after exiting then shooting, there is no crime. Maybe the red bandana guide was vague and somewhat evasive when questioned by authorities but the state didn't present any hard evidence that he spotted the elk from his vehicle and informed the hunter and his guide to do what they did. There is no crime if one pulls off the road, sees game, walks off of the road and shoots if they did not spot the game from the vehicle. That is what was presented in the case. Nothing was shown that proves the game was spotting from a vehicle.
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Post by timberdoodle on Jun 24, 2020 7:40:48 GMT -5
Judges &Juries could save a lot of time if they just read the newspaper...no sense sitting thru a trial
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Post by ridgecommander on Jun 24, 2020 7:48:28 GMT -5
Judges &Juries could save a lot of time if they just read the newspaper...no sense sitting thru a trial As I said, unless Mr. Nale left out important details of the testimony................. |
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Post by dougell on Jun 24, 2020 8:05:14 GMT -5
The guy who edited the footage of the hunt and turned it over to the PGC is a close personal friend of mine.He said the violations where very clear and blatant.They film every one of these hunts for KECA and he always lets them know that the camera is rolling the entire time.I'll give you a few hints of what he told me.First,it doesn't look good when a stop sign is in the footage when they shot and the use of electronic devices(cell phones) was evident in locating the bull.
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Post by ridgecommander on Jun 24, 2020 8:10:32 GMT -5
First,it doesn't look good when a stop sign is in the footage when they shot There is no violation for simply shooting under or right next to a stop sign if hunting. There would be a violation if game was alighted from a vehicle and the hunter did not get off the road the required distance to shoot. No evidence was of that was noted in the article. Were the phone records presented in the courtroom? The charges did not include electronic device violation. The charges were motor vehicle violations and shooting from a road. |
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Post by dougell on Jun 24, 2020 8:17:06 GMT -5
I wasn't their Gene and I didn't see the footage.All I can say is,the guy who turned over the evidence told me he was shocked when he reviewed the footage for editing.He said there where multiple violations that were obvious and blatant.He has a close relationship with ECO,KECA and the PGC.He couldn't let it slide and turned the footage over to all three entities for them to sort out.He's no LEO and he said the footage was very bad.
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Post by dougell on Jun 24, 2020 8:18:08 GMT -5
You can't locate an animal from a vehicle and get out and shoot it from the road.
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Post by ridgecommander on Jun 24, 2020 8:18:54 GMT -5
I wasn't their Gene and I didn't see the footage.All I can say is,the guy who turned over the evidence told me he was shocked when he reviewed the footage for editing.He said there where multiple violations that were obvious and blatant.He has a close relationship with ECO,KECA and the PGC.He couldn't let it slide and turned the footage over to all three entities for them to sort out.He's no LEO and he said the footage was very bad. Many things can "look bad" but be legal. |
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Post by ridgecommander on Jun 24, 2020 8:20:33 GMT -5
You can't locate an animal from a vehicle and get out and shoot it from the road. Correct. I never said anything to the contrary. You cannot use a vehicle to actively locate game. You can exit a vehicle after randomly alighting game from a vehicle and shoot if a proper distance from the road. You can also exit a vehicle and shoot from a road if the game was not alighted from the vehicle. There is no violation if I park, get out, see a deer running across the hillside, and shoot at it as long as my bullet path is away from the road or high enough above it. |
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Post by dougell on Jun 24, 2020 9:50:02 GMT -5
According to my buddy,who didn't want to be involved with something like this,what you describe is not the way it went down.This bad press for everyone involved,including the KECA and the PGC.Had laws not been obviously broken,they would'nt have pursued.
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Post by ridgecommander on Jun 24, 2020 10:02:56 GMT -5
According to my buddy,who didn't want to be involved with something like this,what you describe is not the way it went down. Never said that is how it went down. Just was saying what is and what is not legal and that I haven't seen any evidence of anything illegal happening. As I said before, things can "look bad" but be legal. Hopping out of a truck and shooting a B&C elk from the edge of the road does look bad and I am sure KECA and the PGC don't want that "look". But, lets stick to the laws and judge cases based on the laws, not emotions and reputations. I prefer to see strong evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. That hasn't been shown in a public setting yet. |
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