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Post by cspot on Jun 25, 2019 17:03:19 GMT -5
Why waste money and manpower on bears when they are overpopulated now? They can still randomly check reported bear harvests. Something like elk with a small population i can see. "Overpopulated?" By comparison to deer what is the percentage, I'm guessing bears account for about 2 percent? Geez, this ain't that complex! Yes bears are overpopulated. When our population was about 1/2 of what it is today the PGC bear biologist said that we were at capacity. Why waste money with check stations to maybe catch a couple of poachers. A random check of harvest would still be able to catch some. Most of the poached bears are probably likely never taken to a check station anyway.
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Post by westfieldjoe on Jun 25, 2019 20:33:20 GMT -5
Over population is determined by what the public will tolerate.
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Post by bowbum on Jun 26, 2019 7:10:41 GMT -5
"Overpopulated?" By comparison to deer what is the percentage, I'm guessing bears account for about 2 percent? Geez, this ain't that complex! Yes bears are overpopulated. When our population was about 1/2 of what it is today the PGC bear biologist said that we were at capacity. Why waste money with check stations to maybe catch a couple of poachers. A random check of harvest would still be able to catch some. Most of the poached bears are probably likely never taken to a check station anyway. "Overpopulation" has absolutely nothing to do with law enforcement. The fact that bear density is up is no excuse to not pursue illegally killed situations for prosecution. It is a fact that bears, in comparison to deer, are a much more rare trophy and by percentage, illicit more illegal hunting than deer. Some folks will go to lengths to collect claws, teeth, paws and hides. It really is a silly debate because I'm sure that the PGC would be vilified if they did not uphold the law or collect road-killed bears, rescue cubs, track harvest and collect biologic data etc. They've done that with deer for decades and finally there are so many deer that they've had to hire contractors to do it and they can't even keep up. Nope, the same ones who gripe about a surplus in their budget will gripe about them spending money...........?
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Post by dennyf on Jun 26, 2019 7:17:48 GMT -5
Over population is determined by what the public will tolerate.
Pretty much? "Social impacts" do determine much of that. Two weeks ago a young bear was darted and removed from Harrisburg, deep into the city itself. Going back twenty years, bears had been removed from several other towns in the areas east and west of Harrisburg.
It is no longer that unusual to have young male bears showing up each spring in heavily populated areas around here. While I haven't seen one near our house, turns out we did have one around here early this spring. Something knocked our bird feeder off of its mount out back. Kinda figured it might have been a doe, because I've seen one up on its hind legs, front hooves on the feeder and trying to get at the sunflower seeds. Then I found out some folks about a quarter mile down the road from us, had a bear on their deck a week before.
People often react about such things, by claiming "we're invading their territory". Well, when bears begin showing up in towns/cities that have been there for 150-200 years, that ain't exactly bear territory.
Forget where the bear was that had to be trapped/killed recently, because people had been feeding it and the bear no longer had any fear of human contact, but it wasn't too far from us.
Several years ago at the HQ check station, guys brought a small bear in that had ear tags. It had been trapped/transferred from near Linglestown months earlier, for causing problems. Less than three months later, it had made its way back there from 90 miles away, just in time to be shot in bear season, not far from where it had been causing problems earlier.
Game warden at the check station looked up the ear tags and noted that it wouldn't have to be trapped again, because "this one won't be back".
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Post by turkeykiller on Jun 26, 2019 8:10:53 GMT -5
JMHO, if more and more bears are being seen in places they weren't years ago, that would be an indication that the bears are running out of space where they used to be. The young ones have to travel further to find their territory. It's called over population.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2019 8:24:03 GMT -5
Actually the word is "dispersal," TK. When young bears are kicked out by the sow they go on tour to find a territory. The difference between now and the decades prior to the 1980s is that we have way more bears and they have overspread the entire state. I am not questioning the fact that we have too many bears. Apparently the PGC agrees, since we now have a huge amount of time to hunt them. The only additional thing they might do would be to allow multiple kills in the same license year, and I hope that does not come about.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2019 8:27:14 GMT -5
Dennis, this is proof of that corrolary of Murphy's law that states, "The total intelligence of the human species is a constant. The population is increasing." The more people we have on Earth, the more dumb things they will do. Stands to reason, doesn't it?
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Post by turkeykiller on Jun 26, 2019 8:34:31 GMT -5
I agree it's called dispersal, and my point is, expanded dispersal is caused by expanded population.
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Post by Dutch on Jun 26, 2019 9:28:16 GMT -5
I agree it's called dispersal, and my point is, expanded dispersal is caused by expanded population. Gee, I finally agree with you on something
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Post by Dutch on Jun 26, 2019 9:42:28 GMT -5
If the PGC had been more responsive, there would be no over population issue with bears
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Post by dougell on Jun 26, 2019 9:52:02 GMT -5
Define overpopulation?
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Post by turkeykiller on Jun 26, 2019 10:19:43 GMT -5
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Post by dougell on Jun 26, 2019 11:19:03 GMT -5
OK then.I wasn't sure what they were trying to get at.
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Post by Muab Dib on Jun 26, 2019 12:36:35 GMT -5
And I'll add this... the PGC has transplanted bears in areas they never were, nor should be. (Within their "biodiversity" mantra I'm sure) Michaux State Forest is one that I firmly believe has been populated by the PGC with transplanted bears. Why? MSF is the most heavily used state forest (by bikers/hikers/horsers/birders/RVers's/you name it...etc) in the entire state and with the bear transplants it's just ask'n for a bad human - bear interaction. Yep, we got a lot of stupid weekend warriors here....
Muab
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Post by Dutch on Jun 26, 2019 12:45:38 GMT -5
And I'll add this... the PGC has transplanted bears in areas they never were, nor should be. (Within their "biodiversity" mantra I'm sure) Michaux State Forest is one that I firmly believe has been populated by the PGC with transplanted bears. Why? MSF is the most heavily used state forest (by bikers/hikers/horsers/birders/RVers's/you name it...etc) in the entire state and with the bear transplants it's just ask'n for a bad human - bear interaction. Yep, we got a lot of stupid weekend warriors here.... Muab I think they just came down out of Perry and Juniata.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2019 13:48:08 GMT -5
Do we get bears in from Jersey? Thats the rumor around here but didnt know if it was true or not.
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Post by Muab Dib on Jun 26, 2019 14:45:56 GMT -5
And I'll add this... the PGC has transplanted bears in areas they never were, nor should be. (Within their "biodiversity" mantra I'm sure) Michaux State Forest is one that I firmly believe has been populated by the PGC with transplanted bears. Why? MSF is the most heavily used state forest (by bikers/hikers/horsers/birders/RVers's/you name it...etc) in the entire state and with the bear transplants it's just ask'n for a bad human - bear interaction. Yep, we got a lot of stupid weekend warriors here.... Muab I think they just came down out of Perry and Juniata. All in one year? Muab
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Post by dougell on Jun 26, 2019 15:01:51 GMT -5
Well,we never had any coyotes until a tractor trailer full of them broke down on I80.Crazy enough,every single year after that,at least one every year broke down within 10 miles..There you have it.
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Post by dougell on Jun 26, 2019 15:06:35 GMT -5
I live in an area that supposedly has few deer but has a very deep heritage of bear hunting.Every year the camps are full during bear season and empty during deer season.So far since the snow has melted.I've seen hundreds if not thousands of deer but I've yet to see a single bear.I fgind it odd that people who've probably never even seen a live bear in Pa are complaining that we have an overpopulation.
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Post by Muab Dib on Jun 26, 2019 15:19:52 GMT -5
Well,we never had any coyotes until a tractor trailer full of them broke down on I80.Crazy enough,every single year after that,at least one every year broke down within 10 miles..There you have it. So...Are you responding to my post? And if so, what are you implying? You want the truth... just call the PGC and ask them if they've transplanted any bear into Michaux St. Forest over the last 5 -8 years. There you have it.... Muab
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Post by bowbum on Jun 26, 2019 15:30:11 GMT -5
JMHO, if more and more bears are being seen in places they weren't years ago, that would be an indication that the bears are running out of space where they used to be. The young ones have to travel further to find their territory. It's called over population. That is so far from a biological determination and it is laughable. Bears will, by their very nature, expand their hunting and breeding grounds as the population increases. When bear numbers were extremely low we couldn't even expect to see them in the northern counties. Most of Pa is bear habitat, so naturally as numbers increase they will expand their range. That certainly doesn't define "overpopulation!"
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Post by bowbum on Jun 26, 2019 15:32:18 GMT -5
Do we get bears in from Jersey? Thats the rumor around here but didnt know if it was true or not. Yup! Jersey closed hunting for bears and so the population grew at a fast rate and expended in to Pennsylvania.
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Post by cspot on Jun 26, 2019 15:32:24 GMT -5
Yes bears are overpopulated. When our population was about 1/2 of what it is today the PGC bear biologist said that we were at capacity. Why waste money with check stations to maybe catch a couple of poachers. A random check of harvest would still be able to catch some. Most of the poached bears are probably likely never taken to a check station anyway. "Overpopulation" has absolutely nothing to do with law enforcement. The fact that bear density is up is no excuse to not pursue illegally killed situations for prosecution. It is a fact that bears, in comparison to deer, are a much more rare trophy and by percentage, illicit more illegal hunting than deer. Some folks will go to lengths to collect claws, teeth, paws and hides. It really is a silly debate because I'm sure that the PGC would be vilified if they did not uphold the law or collect road-killed bears, rescue cubs, track harvest and collect biologic data etc. They've done that with deer for decades and finally there are so many deer that they've had to hire contractors to do it and they can't even keep up. Nope, the same ones who gripe about a surplus in their budget will gripe about them spending money...........? Where did I say not to pursue illegally killed situations? I did NOT. I said it isn't worth the money they are spending to maybe catch a couple more poachers. They can still randomly check reported harvests and alot of poaching prosecutions comes from tips they receive. If getting rid of check stations causes a few more bears to be illegally taken then who really cares. The population is higher than it needs to be and it won't be detrimental to the long term goals. There are plenty bears that get poached every year as it is now.. They can still collect data from harvested bears, but as shown with deer they don't need to check every one to get it. I don't believe that the PGC hires our contractors for deer pickup. That is done by PennDOT and the county. Please show me where I griped about a surplus in their budget???
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Post by turkeykiller on Jun 26, 2019 17:15:20 GMT -5
JMHO, if more and more bears are being seen in places they weren't years ago, that would be an indication that the bears are running out of space where they used to be. The young ones have to travel further to find their territory. It's called over population. That is so far from a biological determination and it is laughable. Bears will, by their very nature, expand their hunting and breeding grounds as the population increases. When bear numbers were extremely low we couldn't even expect to see them in the northern counties. Most of Pa is bear habitat, so naturally as numbers increase they will expand their range. That certainly doesn't define "overpopulation!" Keep teaching 3rd grade, that's all you can handle
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Post by timberdoodle on Jun 26, 2019 19:47:30 GMT -5
Just finished mowing and was standing on the front porch and here comes Junior walking up the road and starts up the driveway. Sees me standing there and turns around back to the road walks up another 15 feet and cuts up parallel with the driveway in the woods.
I planned on going fishing tomorrow with the kayak guess I'll be stopping at the landfill first with the garbage I'm certain to be picking up in the AM. No worrys... used to it.
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