Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2016 11:27:59 GMT -5
I'm wondering, who here has had a hunt negatively affected by another hunter who took a shot at an animal with a crossbow? Compound bow? Recurve bow? Longbow? Shotgun? Handgun? Rifle?
Personally, I've never been affected one way or another.
|
|
|
Post by Bill on Dec 16, 2016 20:20:51 GMT -5
I guess my point in all of this is that it's a piss-poor, bordering on irresponsible, marketing campaign. Just like the broadhead manufacturers that tell you you can shoot through a deer's shoulder blade with their heads. Par for the course anymore though...
|
|
|
Post by ridgecommander on Dec 16, 2016 21:55:55 GMT -5
I guess my point in all of this is that it's a piss-poor, bordering on irresponsible, marketing campaign. Just like the broadhead manufacturers that tell you you can shoot through a deer's shoulder blade with their heads. Par for the course anymore though... I agree. I write for an outdoor magazine and when I saw the new ad before it was seen by the masses I cringed. The last crossbow that was touted as a 100 yard rifle was the PSE TAC15. Nobody bought them and they are now discontinued. When you start flinging arrows at live game at 70, 80, 100 yards, you learn pretty quick that they are not rifles.
|
|
|
Post by redarrow on Dec 17, 2016 8:45:17 GMT -5
I'm wondering, who here has had a hunt negatively affected by another hunter who took a shot at an animal with a crossbow? Compound bow? Recurve bow? Longbow? Shotgun? Handgun? Rifle? Personally, I've never been affected one way or another. I have never personally had my hunt effected by someone who shot from the window of a pickup, or killed a deer over a bite pile, or shot a deer with a rifle during archery season either. I would still oppose any law that made doing those things legal. I believe some of the never ending cries for change after change have motives that have absolutely nothing to do with the betterment of hunting in PA.confused-smiley-013
|
|
|
Post by davet on Dec 18, 2016 11:20:15 GMT -5
I'm wondering, who here has had a hunt negatively affected by another hunter who took a shot at an animal with a crossbow? Compound bow? Recurve bow? Longbow? Shotgun? Handgun? Rifle? Personally, I've never been affected one way or another. I have never personally had my hunt effected by someone who shot from the window of a pickup, or killed a deer over a bite pile, or shot a deer with a rifle during archery season either. I would still oppose any law that made doing those things legal. I believe some of the never ending cries for change after change have motives that have absolutely nothing to do with the betterment of hunting in PA.confused-smiley-013 Ummmmm......... #1--There is already a law that permits shooting a deer with a rifle during bow season. It's called the "Special Firearms" season. It runs for 3 days. This year it was Oct 20-22. The rules are listed on page 31 of the Digest. #2--There is already a law that permits shooting a deer with a firearm or crossbow, or bow I suppose if you could do that from a vehicle window. It's called a "Shoot from a Vehicle Permit" and is issued to those who are disabled and unable to, or have significant issues of mobility getting into the woods.
|
|
|
Post by ridgecommander on Dec 18, 2016 12:01:01 GMT -5
I have never personally had my hunt effected by someone who shot from the window of a pickup, or killed a deer over a bite pile, or shot a deer with a rifle during archery season either. I would still oppose any law that made doing those things legal. I believe some of the never ending cries for change after change have motives that have absolutely nothing to do with the betterment of hunting in PA.confused-smiley-013 Just throwing out some more facts for you to digest that your body doesn't digest well. Pa had an estimated 550,000 deer hunters out there on the first day of rifle. An all time low. Down from an estimated 750,000 6 years ago and down from an estimated 1,000,000 20 years ago. Pa is bleeding deer hunters without baiting, without Sunday hunting, without semiautomatic rifles for deer hunting, without air rifles, only recently crossbows. We are still bleeding hunters without many of the things you claim are bad for hunting. Maybe all of those things that you hate are actually not a bad thing for hunting since we are bleeding hunters without them......
|
|
|
Post by redarrow on Dec 18, 2016 19:34:47 GMT -5
We have always made exceptions for the crippled, but too many folks who suffer no physical limitations, save their own slothfulness, want the same rules for themselves. And there are lots of reason for the decline in hunting. The, Let's find a way to make things easier so that those who lack all dedication can be successful and feel good about themselves, are at least partially to blame.
I think many who claim to be advocates for hunters are much more concern with self-promotion. Some of the things that are now law, and others that are being advocated, are not favored by many current hunters. ARs and semis are two that most of the hunters I know oppose.
We may be "bleeding hunters", but looking back on whether or not recent changes in laws have helped, one must be honest enough to accept the fact that they have not, and that some may have actually made the problem worse.
I will keep hunting as long as I enjoy it. I hope my sons chose to do the same. I will not pretend that things that I believe are harmful to hunting, wildlife, and the environment are not. And I will voice my opposition to them.
I wish some of the heroes who claim to be working for the good of hunting would actually listen to the concern of all hunters and just those that share their own ideas.
|
|
|
Post by ridgecommander on Dec 18, 2016 19:40:11 GMT -5
I wish some of the heroes who claim to be working for the good of hunting would actually listen to the concern of all hunters and just those that share their own ideas. So how many hunters outside of Pennsylvania have you personally spoken to regarding these concerns?
|
|
|
Post by redarrow on Dec 18, 2016 19:48:36 GMT -5
I know a few hunter in MT, Washington, NY, and many who travel to hunt Ohio and some western states. Those who care about the game laws in this state are Pennsylvanians from early teens to 91 yrs old. I would guess late 30s early 40s is pretty close to the mean age.
|
|
|
Post by ridgecommander on Dec 18, 2016 19:52:31 GMT -5
I know a few hunter in MT, Washington, NY, Of the "few" that that you know that live out of state, do they oppose semiautos for hunting and Sunday hunting?
|
|
|
Post by redarrow on Dec 18, 2016 20:10:40 GMT -5
One guy hunts coyotes with a semi.223. None of the others use semis. I think they all find it hard to believe that we do not hunt most game on Sunday's-at least from those that I have talked about the subject with.
I don't think we should anymore base our laws on other states anymore than they should base their's upon ours.
|
|
|
Post by bowbum on Dec 18, 2016 20:32:16 GMT -5
.............. looking back on whether or not recent changes in laws have helped, one must be honest enough to accept the fact that they have not, and that some may have actually made the problem worse. I wish some of the heroes who claim to be working for the good of hunting would actually listen to the concern of all hunters and just those that share their own ideas. You have absolutely no foundation for the wild claim that changes have not helped and could have hurt hunting. Who knows what the participation rate might be if no additional opportunities were offered? certainly not you or me. You've made it very clear that you see yourself as someone above the norm, of special quality and possessing exceptional skills......"or" at least better morals in your techniques. I see that as offensive when you try to define what hunting should mean to everybody else and you use offensive language to describe those who have different ideas and promote what they consider to be expanded opportunities. Your "concern of all hunters" is as bogus as you analyzing of what affect changes have made. Again, you have absolutely no way to determine what concerns "all" hunters have and most of what has been implemented has come out of the desires of hunters. I'm one who traveled to and hunted in many states and provinces and even in New Zealand where there are "NO" regulations on hunting weapons, bag limits or seasons --- none! I learned my hunter's craft well; reading sign, assessing set ups, utilizing patience and dedication, (10 hours on stand in minus 25f for 6 days running as one example), developed skills with my bow that would stand against the best and I realized some of the finest results a hunter could hope for. I saw in those places where the motels and hotels filled up with out of state hunters, and where lottery were used because of over demand for non-resident licenses things that Pennsylvania did not allow or consider allowing. The quality of game never suffered, the demand for hunting opportunity remained high and even being a draw and hold archer, I never considered bad mouthing the gun hunters, crossbow hunters or any who choose a different method. I've said it before and you never responded, but here goes again; Native hunters, early hunters and practically every hunter used every possible tool at their disposal to maximize their opportunity to be successful Today we have the best educated and most skilled hunters in history. Tree stands are not new, camo is not new, scent control is not new....none of it is new. It is only now more commonly known to everyone and more available in better quality. The thought that trying to kill a wild animal should be done with some self imposed restriction is foreign to the traditions of hunting.
|
|
|
Post by Loggy on Dec 18, 2016 20:57:00 GMT -5
Very well said Bowbum!!
|
|
|
Post by redarrow on Dec 18, 2016 21:53:28 GMT -5
bb, I have responded to that before. If we are to take you thinking seriously, as mauch of the chalenge that hunting presents should be eliminated as possible and the should be no limit placed upon we who wish to take game, let alone restrict us to bows or muzzleloaders at any time. I could likely take many deer, nearly a will, using snares. If the PGC decided to make a snaring season legal for the taking of deer, would you oppose? I would, and I love trapping and snaring.
The "other states do it this way" holds no more water than those states saying "Pennsylavania does it this way". How about we go with European wildlife management practices to see if that will make those who want constant change happy for a while.
|
|
|
Post by ridgecommander on Dec 19, 2016 7:46:13 GMT -5
One guy hunts coyotes with a semi.223. None of the others use semis. I think they all find it hard to believe that we do not hunt most game on Sunday's-at least from those that I have talked about the subject with. I don't think we should anymore base our laws on other states anymore than they should base their's upon ours. As I thought. Most of the resistance within Pa is based on hunters that cannot see past their tiny little window in their own little safe box. Once you get outside of Pa, they look at us like we are the crazy ones regarding our hunting laws and regulations. As I said before, if you grew up and hunted under a different set of hunting laws and regulations, you would not be opposing many of these issues and slighting others as you constantly do now.
|
|
|
Post by ridgecommander on Dec 19, 2016 7:52:13 GMT -5
bb, I have responded to that before. If we are to take you thinking seriously, as mauch of the chalenge that hunting presents should be eliminated as possible and the should be no limit placed upon we who wish to take game, let alone restrict us to bows or muzzleloaders at any time. I could likely take many deer, nearly a will, using snares. If the PGC decided to make a snaring season legal for the taking of deer, would you oppose? I would, and I love trapping and snaring. The "other states do it this way" holds no more water than those states saying "Pennsylavania does it this way". How about we go with European wildlife management practices to see if that will make those who want constant change happy for a while. As is usually the case, your bias and deeply held distaste for certain people and hunting techniques, makes it impossible for you to actually understand and digest other points of view and the hypocrisies in your own. After Bowbum makes a very pointed and deeply thought out post, you did not even understand the point of it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 7:57:37 GMT -5
Perhaps it is red that should not be taken seriously?
|
|
|
Post by ridgecommander on Dec 19, 2016 8:00:40 GMT -5
Perhaps it is red that should not be taken seriously? He is fun to spar with but I learned pretty quick to not take him seriously or respect most of his positions. It is not the position one has, but how one supports or opposes that position that tells the tale. When all you got is slop from the gutter to throw, the tale is well told.
|
|
|
Post by bowbum on Dec 19, 2016 9:27:26 GMT -5
bb, I have responded to that before. If we are to take you thinking seriously, as mauch of the chalenge that hunting presents should be eliminated as possible and the should be no limit placed upon we who wish to take game, let alone restrict us to bows or muzzleloaders at any time. I could likely take many deer, nearly a will, using snares. If the PGC decided to make a snaring season legal for the taking of deer, would you oppose? I would, and I love trapping and snaring. The "other states do it this way" holds no more water than those states saying "Pennsylavania does it this way". How about we go with European wildlife management practices to see if that will make those who want constant change happy for a while. You can't seem to get it right. I never said "should be eliminated." I said that historically hunters always have tried to improve their methods for success using the same things you denigrate. I also did not say there should be no limits placed. While you have repeatedly mentioned hunters using camo, tree stands etc. as negative ways that imply cheating or not being skilled, you have yet to address that the evolution of hunting is based in those skills and many others that you deem to represent a lesser person. Also, it is not that "some other states" have implemented liberal rules, it is that they just never saw a need to install rules against traditional methods and they let them stand. My only point in mentioning that is that the health and numbers of their game populations have not suffered because of allowing traditional methods to continue. In some cases, hunters argue against what other hunters do and how they do it because of that age old fear ---- they're gonna kill my deer/bear/turkey etc. I don't know if you are one of those or just someone who thinks he is better than others.....?
|
|
|
Post by davet on Dec 19, 2016 12:39:40 GMT -5
I could likely take many deer, nearly a will, using snares. If the PGC decided to make a snaring season legal for the taking of deer, would you oppose? I would, and I love trapping and snaring. This would be a walk in the park. However, it would never be considered a clean quick nor humane kill on deer. This isn't hunting....it's just killing. And bad killing at that.
|
|
|
Post by davet on Dec 19, 2016 12:40:50 GMT -5
In some cases, hunters argue against what other hunters do and how they do it because of that age old fear ---- they're gonna kill my deer/bear/turkey etc. I don't know if you are one of those or just someone who thinks he is better than others.....? I was thrown out of a "Sportmens" Club for this very reason.
|
|
|
Post by redarrow on Dec 19, 2016 19:09:25 GMT -5
You never heard me say that I'm a better hunter than anyone else. And when you said that I consider treestands, camo, scent control, is cheating, you are wrong, I have never said any of that. I may have said that I believe these things are overrated. You also said that hunters throughout history have taken advantage of advances in technology to make taking game easier, I could not agree more with that statement. The advances in tech is exactly the reason "primitive weapons" season were put in place, It was because some thought it was a good idea to add a more challenging aspect to the taking of game.
If I worry that other hunters will kill my deer I will post all of my property and stop hunting public lands.
I hate crossbow inclusion in archery season, except for those incapable of drawing a bow and I see it as an effort to attract those who are unwilling to put the slightest amount of work into taking part in a season that was always available to them the same as everyone else. I do not think semis in big game seasons are needed. If some guys want to take up the cause, have at it. I don't want to see Sunday hunting laws changes in this state but, again, have at it. I do understand the need some hunters who must travel and only get to hunt on weekends have for allowing it.
That is where I stand on Xbows, semis, and SH. My positions are my own opinions. For anyone to add anything else to the above is is dishonest. Fire away. Have at it. Knock yourself out. Write a book. I would care, if only I could think of any reason to.
|
|
|
Post by zimmerstutzen on Dec 20, 2016 9:40:55 GMT -5
Wow all that tech and no self cocking feature. ought to have a gas operated piston to cock itself after being fired. Read about such a feature being developed. Guess we aren't there yet
|
|
|
Post by davet on Dec 20, 2016 9:48:26 GMT -5
Even tho I have to use a crossbow, I'm waiting for a semi-auto one. No mag limit of course. fighting0092
|
|
|
Post by redarrow on Dec 20, 2016 15:55:22 GMT -5
Well, as long as it's ok in other states and there is no data to be sited against such a device, It should be lobbied for in PA. You see, we must look to others for direction. We should bow to those who will champion our cause, and shower them with praise for finding ways for us to be allow to use the most effective-NOT EASIEST-way to kill the critters we seek.
|
|