260, Swede, Creedmore?

[Dutch]

I'll admit, when I was young, I shot a lot. I no longer do and don't keep up with much of it.

Whats the deal? Was the Creedmore really needed or an improvement over the 260 or the Swede?

I did read a comparison of them a while back, and it seemed the Creedmor didn't warrant the hoopla?

Whats the deal with thses three. Enlighten me.

I like my 260, thats for sure.

[Deleted]

Not much. But FWIW when Jim Carmichael was testing the 6.5-308 (260 Rem) and the 6.5-250 (close to Creedmoor) he felt the 6.5-250 was a better cartridge hands down. He was upset when Remington standardized the 6.5-308 instead.

[Dutch]

250? as in 250 Savage??

[Deleted]

Yes .250 Savage. I believe the 260 was called the 6.5 Panther at the time and the 6.5-250 was called the 6.5 Bobcat then. Carmichael did more testing at all ranges including extreme long range with those 6.5's than anyone else has. It was his pet project and his testing determined the 6.5-250 was the more effecient cartridge witht he better downrange ballistics. He recommended the 6.5-250 and he was peeved when Remington standardized the 6.5-308 because he knew he would be associated with the cartridge (and he has been) and he liked the 6.5-250 so much more. The Creedmoor is very similar to the 6.5-250.

[Dutch]

The reason I bought the 260 back in 1997 was due to Carmicheals article in Outdoor Life.

[bghunter]

Yes the creedmoor is a 6.5 done right. The case is what it's all about. The taper and the shoulder angle, and neck lth. Not to make this into my dogs bigger then yours, but I've never shot a cartridge as nice as the Cmoor. 1" groups at 200yds. is common. My bear huntin buddy just bought a Savage in a Creedmoor and he can't believe how well his shootin has become. He's shootin factory and is in love. He thanked me for turnin him on to the cartridge. Just a side note my other bud got himself a 6mm/.250 and he is my biggest compatation. That round shoots very well also both my cmoor and his are Rem. short actions and custom barrels.

[Dutch]

My 260 is sub MOA at times, but with a 20 inch barrel, and perhaps not the right twist, thats the best I can expect, and for deer hunting, that is good enough.

Perhaps if I were to do it over, I'd get a Creedmore, but this is working well.

Just was curious what the difference was all about.

[bghunter]

Nothin wrong with .260's for light recoil, good shootin, and huntin. I once had a custom rifle built in 25.06 and it was a real nice rifle. I've got a real nice shootin .220 swift, and have loaded everything you can in it and settled on a load. I've pushed the limits on it with long shots on G/hogs then began to think I've had this rifle since 05 and many rounds down the barrel, maybe I need to lighten up some. Well thinkin you only live once maybe another custom is what I need. First what caliber would I get??? I have had good luck with my rifles and lean to oldproven cartridges. The one cartridge I liked that was some what new school was the .300rum. I read anything I could on it and seem'ed like a well thought out cartridge imo so I bought myself a Rem. 700 SS RMEF edt. and it's a nice set/up I'm happy. SOOO when thinkin of custom I went the same route. It took some time asd research. I kept fallin back to the 25.06 or .257AI but bull headed as I am just kept reachin others. I wanted something I could shoot at least long 100gr.bt. for I had done all I could with the .222 and .220. I love G/hog huntin and wanted a cartridge for both G/hogs and deer. Like you'ed have with a .243. SOOO 6.5 Cmoor kept comein up. Long range steel shooter's were on the Cmoor band wagon sayin good by to their .308's in praise of the Cmoor. A few were onto the 6.5/47's also. Well now I had my cartridge picked I found after mindless searchin for a doner rifle. I again knew the action's would be a 722 or 700 Rem. The 722's go alittle high priced imo and the 721 which is always cheaper are to long. I wanted an older 700 high gloss blue type old school steel actions. I called all over usa tryin to get one in mint shape a safe queen one. About 3monthe to find price and style and older ADL no floor plate. Now I'm golden, and next thing was a trip to Nescopeck Pa. to top shelf Bobby Hart's gun shop. They hooked me up big time. He did all the smith work, stock work, and put the rifle back together with his family made barrel. A 26", SS, fluted barrel. I picked up the rifle 3 days before Christmas last year after his 4mo. smith work. I felt like I hit the lottery!!! It's topped off with a 6X18X40 AO,Leupold, with the CDS turret. Sorry I went on so much but this is got to be the most wonderful rifle I've ever owned. I do think as a guy gets along in life he should treet himself to a fine rifle to enjoy it's well worth the money....later

[Dutch]

Sounds like yer dream rifle.

If you are using it on groundhogs, how far are you shooting with it, and what "medicine" are you using?

[Deleted]

Brad, ive always been an 06, 300 winnie, 35 Whelan etc...Big Cal type of guy till I started to do a lil research on guns in the 264 cal range. My search lead me to the 6.5X55 Swede particulary the CZ 550FS model which I bought a few years ago. It's by far the sweetest shooting cf ive ever owned!! An optimum caliber which affords outstanding SD w/lite recoil.

As far as the best ammo for this 20.5" 1-9 barelled gun I found 2 to be optimum. These are the both outstanding factory loads which are loaded hotter than most out there maximizing the 6.5 Swedes performance.

First the Norma 156 Nrma Orynx which provides 2,560 FPS/2,267 FPE. My bear load.

Second Hornaday's new Superformance 140 grain Interlocks 2,569 FPC/2,051 FPE.

[Dutch]

I think that is what limits the 6.5's is that they are a great deer cartridge, but somewhat minimal for anything else.

308/30-06 can be an anything cartridge for whatever we hunt here in PA, but the 6.5's are just a little light for bears. So, sales suffer. You need to almost be a 2 gun hunter if you want a bear gun.

30-06 can be loaded down to lighter recoil, if we want a lower recoil rifle. Altho, when I loaded mine down with 150's, I still didn't care for the recoil. LOL

Those 156's for the 6.5, I wonder if they are available in 260's as factory loads? Have to look.

[Deleted]

See the Norma Factory ammo in 156 Orynz's are available in the 280 Rem but not 260.

[bghunter]

Dutch, I started out to get rounds down the barrel Hart barrels are hand lapped when you get them so basicly go shoot with 120's. For G/hogs I dropped back to 95gr. V Max. The twist is 1-8 and they shoot real well. My best with this summer chuckin was not a hit but a heck of alot of fun. 575yds. 7 shots at this bugger . Windage was the problem. He'ed be standin I'ed shoot (with spotter) he'ed go down back up 10 min.later to do all over again. Once I got the ht. right the windage took a couple shots. Darkness set in and I stopped shottin for bad conditions. Much fun anyways. Wiyh the Cmoor or the Swift 450 is somewhat easy if standin. Since I have the CDS turret you need a bullet, it's speed it's BC ,temp,and sea level. Pa. mean is around 1100ft. and where I live is about 180 so I split it same with temp. I use the 120bt. and need to stay with this load to keep scope correct. I didn't need a deer rifle for I have a .270 and 30.30 so I'm golden. I will hunt field edges with the 120 gr, All I've read and a 6.5 site I belong to the 120 will take deer all day. Since I started workin and got a pay check I found guns are my vice!!! I have rifles for deer, bear, etc. If I could ever own one rifle guess it would be an .06, but that would never happen. If I were to want a 6.5 for deer and what I'ed look at a 264 win mag., but then why when I've got my .270??? I've dropped deer with the .270 soetimes in it's tracks. A great deer round imo. Lastly as they say never trust the one gun hunter, grinn, grinn, and your .06 thinkin is right on.......

[Dutch]

First deer I killed with the 260 was with 120's. Drpped in it's tracks, of course, I AM a superb shot. I loaded some 120's for my nephews son last year when we took him for a mentored doe, and that deer ran a ways, but it was lung shot. I like shoulder shots, drops them where they stand.

I have now gone back to the 140's because the gun might be used for bears.

I agree tho, 270- 30-06 is a sweet spot in all round cartridges. 280 is probably the best aomng them? But then, like when I was young, we could debate "best" all day long, and have a hell of a lot of fun doing it.

I miss chuck hunting. Bad. But, as I drive around Tioga and Potter, I see almost no evidence of them anymore. I spent many days up there in the late 70's shooting chucks, and while I didn't know it at the time, hunted some of the same places DennyF did.

I can still see, in my mind, some of those long shots we took and scored on, but we were using a 40-X in 7 Mag, with 120's and 162's at the time. Those 120's did some terrible damage to a chuck at 500-900 yds. Loved it, and probably miss that form of hunting more than anything.

[bghunter]

Ya Dutch the northern counties took a big hit on the G/hog population. Coyote, and hawks, I'ed say. I've noticed thechucks are more in the tree lines most places they need extra help from the predators. Plus the early huntin. G/hogs need time to raise the young and folks start shootin to soon in many places. Another thing that has not helped is the gas wells. Farmers gave up some plantin and don't mow as they did. Like all things today many reasons thing fall apart. One at a time we can maybe fix, but so much wrong makes it hard. Most think let the other guy do it. I watched two hawks with a G/hog how they went about it to try to get a G/hog. He was alittle to big but they tried, it was neat to see. While archery huntin a couple yrs. back I watch an owl knock a squirrel out of tree tops and before he hit the ground the owl had him. Anyways farm areas is best for chuck huntin farms that work that is. Permission and how you conduct yourself is # 1. I've seen in Bradford Co. chucks you shoot are gone the next day if you let them lay. Ok waitin on the storm.....

[Dutch]

IIRC, way back when, we had a season hogs that did allow them to raise their young. I still agree with that. We never hunted before the first cutting of hay came off, yet, many guys went up in early May and shot hogs. Never agreed with that and never will.

I also agree with the hawks and yotes. In the case of hawks, we have over protected a predator class, and that will never change now. I see more and more roadkilled hawks these days. Very common.

[dennyf]

No question that the advent of bald eagles have put the whammy on 'chucks in the area around my camp.

They've been around there for about 5 or 6 years now and it's become virtually impossible to find a hayfield that still has many 'chucks in it. Judging by the number of eagles seen and the frequency of seeing them, gotta be at least two or three nests in the area now? Talking about an area roughly twenty or more square miles, which is about what our old woodchuck shooting area encompasses (NE Potter/NW Tioga).

When there was one pair of eagles within the coupla square miles near camp about 5 or 6 years ago, I was still able to find 'chucks on a regular basis. Labor Day weekend this year, shot one and that was in a series of huge hayfields that used to easily produce three or four within an hour's time.

Hawks, 'yotes, some bobcats and lots of foxes have been around for many years, but we never had any problem shooting a dozen or more 'chucks (apiece) per day, afer the hay came off. Back in the 80s and 90s we often killed more than a dozen per day.

Now I'm lucky to see a half dozen woodchucks out and that requires lots of driving.

Started out in the 70s with a M788 Rem. in 22-250 and saw my yearly 'chuck kills go into three digits. Handloads ranged from 50gr Hornadys to 52gr Sierra Match Kings, then nothing but 55gr Btips since they came out. Have also killed quite a few 'chucks with a custom heavy barrel 25-06, shooting 100gr Btips (also my deer load).

Backsliding now, mostly hunt does with antique lever guns. Even have a 30-30, after 50+ years of hunting deer. Lord save me!

[bghunter]

Denny, we agree shootin to early hurts us but with all the threds of how many??. and the new breed hunter harvest this and move to the next animal don't help. I hunted Potter a few times back when and your right 12-15 a day was sweet. I too used a 25.06 for chucks a stright 12 power Leuy, 26" Douglas, Mauser action, those were the days for sure. What we do is find a nice field, ask farmer where he'ed like us first, then set up. Lawn chair's, shady spot, rests, binoculars, range finder, drinks,eats, and time. It's real good to have a spotter and some one to shoot the bull with. If not that and a walk around hunt you can be alone and then I carry my .222 Again your right with comein full circle. My last rifle buck was about 65yds. or so with my Ruger old school and a 3X9 Z on it. I was on a ridge trail as I do so often. I said to my self what the heck are you doin??? My 30.30 could and would do this job all day. Grant you huntin around fields I just have to have my .270 Your not alone.....

[dennyf]

When the haggle turns to "How Far", I like to joke that I've killed deer from about 3' and pretty close to 500 yards. But that really isn't a joke, because I have.



All of my long pokes (300+ yards) were with the same heavy barrel 25-06. It still comes along, but I haven't used it on deer in about 12 years or so.

My woodchuck/deer huntin' bud of many years, passed away in the summer of 2001, so that put a crimp in my woodchuck hunting pretty much ever since. I still thump a few each summer, but mostlly close to camp. Switched to the 223 several years ago and mostly use that now, although I have killed a few dozen with the 22-250 since my bud passed away.

Mostly killed baldies over the past 10 years, with some sorta old lever rifle. Although I did kill two of 'em last season with my M700 sporter in 25-06. One was mine (late on the first Thursday). The other one late in the second week, was a "mercy killing" for an ol' local boy that had wounded it and let it get away for a bit. Downed it fer keeps at a tad over 200 yards (lasered it later that day).

Back to using lever rifles this year. Got a "new to me" M64 Win. (1953) in 30-30 that'll get the call, complete with a vintage Lyman 66 sight.

Since the OT was 6.5 caliber firearms, should note that an old neighbor of mine had a pile of 6.5 Swedes, all still in original military configuration. Spent many an hour with him at our club ranges with those relics. Some were very accurate, despite their age and he mostly shot his own cast bullets w/gas checks, in them things.

[Deleted]

I think the 270 Win. keeps the 6.5's from being succesful.

[Dutch]

The 260/6.5, just doesn't fill the PA bill. Its not a bear gun, and many guys, who just want one gun, want something they can use for both deer and bear, and for that lifetime hunt out west.

The 270/30-06 is that gun. No one can deny that.

[Deleted]

Exactly. Most guys aren't gun collectors. They buy a rifle and that's their rifle for all their hunting. The .270 and .30-06 make sense for that.

[bghunter]

Ya, alot of truth to the one gun do all type of guy. A 6.5 whatever is no match for a top choice. There is more to think about with the selection of an all around cartridge IMO. Some things to consider is loaded bullets in any ol hardware, or gun shop. What bullets can you load if reloader, and what game you plan to hunt, and what type of realestate you walk on. Now if your a rifleman along with huntin then the 6.5 might peak your interest. I've been and am a hunter so I've always needed a cartridge to harvest game 1st. I also think have enough gun. Most guys shoot less then they think they do. Pound 100 rounds a week and the one gun hunter will get bord fast. If you shoot any cartridge AI'ed you may be lookin for a barrel all to soon. I can't help myself, I love guns. I do have way more then needed but that's how I roll. When I decided to have a Creedmoor huntin was not the only thing for this cartridge but it will hunt. Of the .264 dia. cartridges the Creedmoor and the 6.5X47 are the most accurate, and the .264 Win. Mag. the most powerful. Since all but the mag. shoot about the same speed + or - a couple houndred fps, only the case design make one better or worse then the other. Bullet weight in the .264 is one reason deer are it's limit IMO. I've always favored the.30 cal. for game larger then a deer. Once you move onto bigger and bone let the rest alone and IMO pick a .30 cal. or more at or above 3000 fps. Just like the 7mm's .284 dia. cartridge it can be done but much better choice, and as with the Win. Mag .264 the Rem. Mag stands out. Why do many give up the 30.30 for a 30.06 it just makes sense. It's sorta like a .308 Win. good cartridge for sure but at the 180gr. level and 200gr. the .06 is much better. JMO the best thig to happen to a .308 win. was to put a .284 bullet in it... I'm a long time hunter with a .270 and it dose very well on deer but if I had to have a deer/ larger boned one cartridge it would be a 30.06 So back to the .260 vs. Creedmoor for huntin in a skilled hand it would do the job for thin skinned game. I've never owned a cartridge with so much pleasure to shoot as the Cmoor, but if that ol nasty wide spred, long tined 8 pointer strolls by I'ed be much happier to have a 150gr. .270 or 30.06 in my hands. ......later

[Deleted]

After reading things here startin to get a lil worried that I may be way undergunned for bear with my lil 6.5x55 Swede popgun pushing a 156 grain Norma bonded Orynx a mere 2,560 FPS/2,267 FPE. Guess I was overly optimistist since this is a commonly chosen round for 1,200 lb Moose in Scandinavia etc. Think I will carry my 44 mag as a back-up!! ;D

[Dutch]

I think the 156 should be fine. I'm thinking the sectional density and BC of that thing should be outstanding. Like a freight train when it hits that bear. I hope.