|
Post by Dutch on Nov 3, 2019 15:42:01 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by davet on Nov 3, 2019 17:15:31 GMT -5
Pretty cool web site. Nice to get good info on something that may never be needed......but then again.....
|
|
|
Post by longbeard2372 on Nov 4, 2019 7:15:53 GMT -5
My brother in Potter is averaging 8-12 calls a day for him and his dog. 90% of the calls are xbow hunters. Shooting to far and to low. All bottom hits off the bottom of the chest and deer never found. He tracked from 9 am Saturday till 4 pm. On 3 different bucks. Then went back out at 9 pm for another. All xbow hunters. The pooch has found every vertical bow hit deer this year. Not a single xbow hit deer. Some guys are shooting 60 yds with their xbows. Terrible, everyone thinks they are shooting rifles. This is the manufacturer fault for advertising 100 yd 3" groups and 500 fps. Keep those shots no more then 40 yds. The bolt just doesn't have the kinetic energy of a compound.
I think a lot of people are not being smart with their shots and think the hell with it, I will take a marginal shot and call the dog man and find it. Just have to get him bleeding. The dog can't find a live deer !!!!
|
|
|
Post by davet on Nov 4, 2019 7:20:15 GMT -5
I have a B-I-L that pussed up a few bucks. I think when these guys look thru that scope on the crossbow, they automatically think rifle......and then miss the heart\lung by big inches.
|
|
|
Post by ridgecommander on Nov 4, 2019 7:49:47 GMT -5
This is the manufacturer fault for advertising 100 yd 3" groups and 500 fps. I agree somewhat. As you pointed out they are not rifles and I am not a fan of some of the advertising campaigns. It is also the hunters responsibility to understand the trajectory of the arrow and to only take high percentage shots at known ranges. That used to be the case. Today, most crossbow arrows retain more kinetic energy down range than the typical compound arrow.
|
|
|
Post by longbeard2372 on Nov 4, 2019 10:14:26 GMT -5
"That used to be the case. Today, most crossbow arrows retain more kinetic energy down range than the typical compound arrow."
This is true at 40 yds and closer. The xbow doesn't have the power stroke of a compound. Never has never will. Gene I know your big on the xbows and that's fine. To each his own. I'm not posting to get in a pissing match about xbows. Just telling what we have going on. The problem isn't the xbow. It's the knucklehead behind it. As stated. Smart ethical shots are what's need with every weapon. And the fact that the tracks my brother is on 9 out 10 are xbow tracks says something. I would be curious to see what other trackers are finding. I think the mindset of a lot of xbow guys is big bad 490 fps I can get that buck at 60 yds. Look through the scope and shoot with rifle thoughts going through their mind. There was a excellent article in game news last month that EVERY xbow and vertical bow hunter should read. There are very few xbow guys out there like you Gene. You know your equipment and it's range and capabilities. I would be willing to bet you are of less then 10% of the xbow people that do. I respect you for your knowledge and work with xbows. The problem is we can't get half of the xbow people to have even half of the knowledge you do. Most buy it. Shoot it 10-12 times and never touch it again till they put it in the car to go hunt. People just need to use their heads. But ... The horns walk in and people lose it.
|
|
|
Post by dougell on Nov 4, 2019 11:03:21 GMT -5
I think you see a higher percentage of crossbow hunters wounding deer because there's a higher percentage of them being used.Some used to hunt with bows and some are new to the game.I agree with Gene in that most crossbow bolts are just as heavy,much faster and retain more KE than the average compound.It's the Indian,not the arrow.
|
|
|
Post by Dutch on Nov 4, 2019 11:50:51 GMT -5
My brother in Potter is averaging 8-12 calls a day for him and his dog. 90% of the calls are xbow hunters. Shooting to far and to low. All bottom hits off the bottom of the chest and deer never found. He tracked from 9 am Saturday till 4 pm. On 3 different bucks. Then went back out at 9 pm for another. All xbow hunters. The pooch has found every vertical bow hit deer this year. Not a single xbow hit deer. Some guys are shooting 60 yds with their xbows. Terrible, everyone thinks they are shooting rifles. This is the manufacturer fault for advertising 100 yd 3" groups and 500 fps. Keep those shots no more then 40 yds. The bolt just doesn't have the kinetic energy of a compound. I think a lot of people are not being smart with their shots and think the hell with it, I will take a marginal shot and call the dog man and find it. Just have to get him bleeding. The dog can't find a live deer !!!! Is your brother on the list?
|
|
|
Post by longbeard2372 on Nov 4, 2019 12:15:38 GMT -5
My brother in Potter is averaging 8-12 calls a day for him and his dog. 90% of the calls are xbow hunters. Shooting to far and to low. All bottom hits off the bottom of the chest and deer never found. He tracked from 9 am Saturday till 4 pm. On 3 different bucks. Then went back out at 9 pm for another. All xbow hunters. The pooch has found every vertical bow hit deer this year. Not a single xbow hit deer. Some guys are shooting 60 yds with their xbows. Terrible, everyone thinks they are shooting rifles. This is the manufacturer fault for advertising 100 yd 3" groups and 500 fps. Keep those shots no more then 40 yds. The bolt just doesn't have the kinetic energy of a compound. I think a lot of people are not being smart with their shots and think the hell with it, I will take a marginal shot and call the dog man and find it. Just have to get him bleeding. The dog can't find a live deer !!!! Is your brother on the list? Yes Dutch he is. #1 on the list when you use the 16923 zip code search.
|
|
|
Post by ridgecommander on Nov 4, 2019 12:43:30 GMT -5
This is true at 40 yds and closer. The xbow doesn't have the power stroke of a compound. Never has never will. While it is true that the power stroke is much shorter on a xbow, it is generally leaving the bow at a higher velocity. Once the arrow leaves the bow, it doesn't matter what it was launched from. If the crossbow arrow is still going faster at 60 yards or 100 yards than a vertical arrow, and the weight of each are the same, the crossbow arrow still has more kinetic energy. With todays crossbows, most will still retain quite a bit more speed well downrange than the typical vertical arrow. Many crossbow arrows use brass inserts up front to increase their overall weight. The normal weight of crossbow arrows are generally around 410 grains, which is close to many vertical arrows. At 60 yards and greater, the KE between a modern crossbow and a modern vertical bow are very similar. While I won't get into my skills, I would generally agree with you that the typical crossbow hunter is not as passionate about the nuances of archery hunting as the typical vertical archer. With that said, we both realize that there are many vertical archers that also do not practice and have no business in the woods. Everyone that shoots anything at game needs to use their head and make the best shots possible and the best decisions possible every time. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen. Anyways. No pissing matches indeed. There have been enough of those.
|
|
|
Post by dougell on Nov 4, 2019 13:14:02 GMT -5
Yesterday I had to run my son into Treasure lake so I stopped in to see how many deer have been killed.They were up to 57 checked in and close to twenty incident reports of wounded deer.Those are just the ones that were reported and from personal experience,what's actually reported and wounded aren't even close.I read through the reports and it was the same story over and over.I hit a deer too far back and lost the blood at dark.When will people learn?I'd have to go back and look at what weapon each person was using to say how many were from crossbows but it doesn't matter.A idiot is an idiot,regardless of the weapon.What kills me is that everyone has to attend an orientation where it's stressed over and over again to take good shots and back out on marginal hits.After 12 years of this,I have very little respect for the average hunter.I'm actually more convinced than ever that quite a few guys using compounds should actually be using crossbows.I never used to believe the stories about the wounding rate being around 50% but that's reality.One guy lost two on friday night with a crossbow and lost a third one earlier in the year.If I were still in charge,his permit would be yanked.
|
|
|
Post by ridgecommander on Nov 4, 2019 13:25:49 GMT -5
I am always amazed at the people that track deer they know were not hit good. There is nothing to be gained by taking up the track before you should. Even people that know they gut shot a deer will still track it or track it within 4-5 hours. Even if one is not sure of the hit, it should become obvious within 50 yards if the hit was immediately fatal or not.
|
|
|
Post by longbeard2372 on Nov 4, 2019 13:29:41 GMT -5
Yesterday I had to run my son into Treasure lake so I stopped in to see how many deer have been killed.They were up to 57 checked in and close to twenty incident reports of wounded deer.Those are just the ones that were reported and from personal experience,what's actually reported and wounded aren't even close.I read through the reports and it was the same story over and over.I hit a deer too far back and lost the blood at dark.When will people learn?I'd have to go back and look at what weapon each person was using to say how many were from crossbows but it doesn't matter.A idiot is an idiot,regardless of the weapon.What kills me is that everyone has to attend an orientation where it's stressed over and over again to take good shots and back out on marginal hits.After 12 years of this,I have very little respect for the average hunter.I'm actually more convinced than ever that quite a few guys using compounds should actually be using crossbows.I never used to believe the stories about the wounding rate being around 50% but that's reality.One guy lost two on friday night with a crossbow and lost a third one earlier in the year.If I were still in charge,his permit would be yanked. Yes Doug my brother had the same thing. Tracked a buck he hit ok be Friday afternoon to a unending trail in a large loop. At 7 pm the guy text him a pic he got from trail camera that sends to his phone. The buck was back at the same spot as he shot him at 2 pm. Saturday morning the guy shoots the buck again . Calls my brother and says pretty sure I did the same thing. Shot under him and caught the bottom of his breast bone with a single blade of his rage. Brother tells him to aim higher when they are at 6 yds because of trajectory and being in a treestand. Monday the guy send him a pic of him with the buck he shot Monday morning with a double lung and two different cut marks on the bottom of his chest bone. Xbow guy... That being said you are correct, there's a lot of idiots out there carrying arms they have no right to carry because they don't practice or educate themselves about that weapon. Of you ask my brother about the calls he gets and the questions he asks . The first one is WHEN did you shoot the deer ? You would be surprised how many say 20 minutes ago or even less !!!. It's crazy... When we shoot one in the evening we hunt till dark and go home and have supper then pickup the track. Only time we don't is if we see the deer drop. Or we have a very marginal hit. People are nuts
|
|
|
Post by longbeard2372 on Nov 4, 2019 13:32:13 GMT -5
And that early bear season. You don't wanna know how many calls he got to track bear. Last bear call log I seen he had as of the 28th was 37. SMH
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2019 13:33:00 GMT -5
dougell, makes me sick. Every year, I hit one, or two, or three but didn't find it. Stinks, but not much can be done about. Your right that these so called hunters don't even belong in the woods.
|
|
|
Post by acorn20 on Nov 4, 2019 13:59:43 GMT -5
The fellows I hunt with were talking about this over lunch Saturday. I asked them if they knew of anyone in the area that had a tracking dog and thought that might be a nice service to provide to hunters. With all their contacts, they didn't know of anyone. I can't believe that this list was posted two days after our discussion!
I hope we never need their services but there were three individuals in our general area that we can call should we ever need them. This is the kind of information that needs to be shared on these forums. Well done!
|
|
|
Post by dougell on Nov 4, 2019 14:07:06 GMT -5
And that early bear season. You don't wanna know how many calls he got to track bear. Last bear call log I seen he had as of the 28th was 37. SMH WOW.I've seen these discussions every year and nobody ever believes how high the wounding rate is.I used to get called out several times per week and I've heard all the same B.S.
|
|
|
Post by longbeard2372 on Nov 4, 2019 14:35:14 GMT -5
To many smoke pole guys forgetting they only get one shot and not using it on a high percentage shot. He has had one call for a bow bear since archery bear started.
|
|
|
Post by longbeard2372 on Nov 4, 2019 14:36:18 GMT -5
Day 1 & 2 I think he had like 17 calls alone and a couple on hat Sunday also.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2019 15:34:09 GMT -5
I've been hunting since 1954, and over those years I have wounded a few deer. Actually the total is three, two of which I did not recovered. One was while hunting with a rifle and the other was an archery incident. Of the two, the one most likely to have recovered would have been the archery one. Had I had the use of a tracking dog, we might have recovered at least one of those two. I support this law, because not to use whatever means you have to recover a wounded animal is a waste. I am anything but proud of losing a wounded deer. I do a lot of walking in the woods during winter. I have come upon a few deer carcasses. Upon examination it is fairly easy to tell what killed some of them, and in most cases, they were killed during rifle season. Some years ago while on a bear hunt in Ontario, I had a conversation with a guy from Maryland. He swore that every year he found "dozens" of deer wounded in archery season. Yep. I've heard this before. Sorry, but I have to believe what I've seen with my own eyes. Most of the dead deer I find in winter were rifle killed, and knowing how the locals hunt there, they were wounded during a drive by either a driver or a stander. Yes, there are some of us who hunt who take unethical shots, and not all of those who do are archers. I hope that is not what you are inferring.
|
|
|
Post by longbeard2372 on Nov 4, 2019 16:27:13 GMT -5
Mutt said... Yes, there are some of us who hunt who take unethical shots, and not all of those who do are archers. I hope that is not what you are inferring
Not at all Mutt. Me, my wife and 12 yr old daughter are abid archery hunters. Archery is our passion. So much that my daughter shoots competitive archery and is ranked #3 indoor compound archer in the nation in her age division. We shoot 6 days a week as a family. The daughter shoots way more then mom and I. She shoots over a 100 arrows daily.
|
|
|
Post by dennyf on Nov 4, 2019 16:42:53 GMT -5
I think leashed tracking dogs are a great idea. Too bad it took so damn long to get that bill passed, but as most of us already know, ain't much ever gets done in a timely fashion here in PA, hunting-wise,, when it comes to the General Assembly having a clue?
Best of my knowledge, I've lost one deer in rifle season. Spent the best part of two days looking, never found it. No blood or hair where it had been, but still looked. That was back when I could still spend the best part of two days looking. Last year was the first time in many years, that a deer I shot at with a rifle, didn't keel over and stay there.
Lucky for me and the deer, one of my younger camp neighbors aided me in gathering it up. Appreciated the help and he enjoyed himself immensely during the recovery, making fun of me for being old'n gimpy now. It was a fair trade. Been picking on him since he was a sprout.
|
|
|
Post by Dutch on Nov 5, 2019 17:24:45 GMT -5
Only took 20 years to get the leashed tracking bill passed thru the legislature.
|
|
|
Post by bowbum on Nov 1, 2021 7:53:49 GMT -5
A idiot is an idiot,regardless of the weapon......................... I sure agree with you on the quote above. I'll add that it isn't limited to archery season. I have always found far more dead deer after rifle season than archery. Yes, there are more rifle hunters in my neighboring woods than bow hunters but rifle hunters have much greater capabilities also. I'll add to that, that my thinking is that it isn't hunters, it is cultural in that people, in general, just don't act responsibly.
|
|
|
Post by fleroo on Nov 1, 2021 9:38:47 GMT -5
Which is true. And also which is why I don't mind the commissioners passing certain regs. with just that in mind. As bad as the commission can flock up a reg. I have to recognize them for having the wisdom to not put a semi-auto weapon in the hands of thousands of Fayette-Cong rednecks during our rifle season. And before I hear it, yes, I am only speaking for the rednecks that I see and KNOW exist in my little part of the redneck woods. I can certainly recognize that 60 + other counties in PA, have upstanding sportsmen, would never abuse a regulation, and are completely conservation-minded sportsmen.
|
|