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Post by ridgecommander on Feb 16, 2019 19:56:29 GMT -5
With some states that have historically been shotgun or muzzleloader only now allowing straight walled cases rifle and pistol cases for deer hunting, Winchester has just unveiled their new 350 Legend cartridge. It is a 35 caliber straight walled case with ballistics similar to the 30/30 Winchester. The great thing about this design is it will be compatible in AR15 platforms since the parent case is the .223. This will provide much better performance on deer sized game than many traditional AR15 chamberings. I think this has a lot of potential. Will be interesting to see if the rifle manufacturers start chambering for this cartridge. www.americanhunter.org/articles/2019/1/31/first-look-winchester-350-legend/ |
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Post by ridgecommander on Feb 16, 2019 20:06:04 GMT -5
If Pa ever legalizes semis for big game I was thinking 450 Bushmaster but this cartridge looks to have the advantage.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 20:58:05 GMT -5
Yeah I'd take it over the 450 every day of the week.
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Post by davet on Feb 17, 2019 7:54:34 GMT -5
I wonder how the ballistics compare to a 357 Maximum? I'll check that out 'n report back!!!
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Post by Muab Dib on Feb 17, 2019 8:12:20 GMT -5
Or the 35 Remington. A lot of these new cartridges look impressive as they're loading them to higher pressures... confused-smiley-013
Muab
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Post by dennyf on Feb 17, 2019 10:41:38 GMT -5
Spoke a bit with the Winchester ammo guy at the show. Seems its not much different than the old 357 Max, just a bit smaller case and like Gene noted, compatible with an AR platform. Oddly enough, he didn't actually have any rounds there to show people, which I thought was kinda dumb?
Winchester once made a similar cartridge over a hundred years ago for their semi rifles, but this new one will far out perform those old relics. Back in the early 1900s, both Winchester and Remington had such rounds in a number of bullet diameters for their "self loading" rifles.
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Post by Dutch on Feb 17, 2019 11:09:20 GMT -5
Or the 35 Remington. A lot of these new cartridges look impressive as they're loading them to higher pressures... confused-smiley-013 Muab You are too in love with old stuff. Get into the 20th Century. Lol |
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Post by Muab Dib on Feb 17, 2019 14:08:23 GMT -5
Or the 35 Remington. A lot of these new cartridges look impressive as they're loading them to higher pressures... confused-smiley-013 Muab You are too in love with old stuff. Get into the 20th Century. Lol I guess you're right Dutch, not much that needs done today that can't be done with cartridges almost 100 years old. And, if you look at many of the new cartridges being introduced today they're jacking-up the pressures to gain a few hundred fps. Muab |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 15:05:55 GMT -5
Well it can't stand toe to toe with the 35 Remington but it's target market is the Midwest states that are straight wall cartridges only and the AR crowd. Being a blown out 223 it will do that stuff well.
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Post by davet on Feb 17, 2019 15:28:11 GMT -5
New cartridges like the 6.5 Creedmore can drive a 140gr. bullet 2,700+fps. My 100+YO 6.5x55 can drive a 140gr. bullet 2700+fps. It's plain to see that newer is better. Maybe even more better.
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Post by davet on Feb 17, 2019 15:33:44 GMT -5
The 357 max can drive a 158gr bullet anywhere from 1,700fps to just over 2,000fps. (LoadData reloading source). The new Win .350 states a 150gr bullet will be driven at 2,350fps.
The additional 350fps will clearly provide more downrange energy.......however, I dunno if the deer will notice that.
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Post by Dutch on Feb 17, 2019 16:20:01 GMT -5
New cartridges like the 6.5 Creedmore can drive a 140gr. bullet 2,700+fps. My 100+YO 6.5x55 can drive a 140gr. bullet 2700+fps. It's plain to see that newer is better. Maybe even more better. Ok then, why the success of this cartridge? My FIL had a Swede. Great gun, but they never caught on. That was a sweet gun. Bought that around 1990 or so. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 17:26:32 GMT -5
The 6.5 Creed success is due to very fast twist rates and affordable ammo with very high BC bullets. That's the in things right now and the Creed offers it in spades while the other 6.5's don't.
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Post by dennyf on Feb 17, 2019 18:31:52 GMT -5
LAX Ammo had 200 count boxes of 6.5 CM at the show, for $139. 140gr Hornady HPBT.
PFSC is rafflin' off a Ruger American Predator in 6.5 Creedmore. Think they're $5, or five for $20? Sold a mess of 'em at the show. Only 750 tickets being offered. Drawing when they're sold, or at our Sept. session.
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Post by Dutch on Feb 17, 2019 18:50:37 GMT -5
LAX Ammo had 200 count boxes of 6.5 CM at the show, for $139. 140gr Hornady HPBT. PFSC is rafflin' off a Ruger American Predator in 6.5 Creedmore. Think they're $5, or five for $20? Sold a mess of 'em at the show. Only 750 tickets being offered. Drawing when they're sold, or at our Sept. session. I got 5 tickets for a gun I already have! |
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Post by davet on Feb 17, 2019 19:17:53 GMT -5
New cartridges like the 6.5 Creedmore can drive a 140gr. bullet 2,700+fps. My 100+YO 6.5x55 can drive a 140gr. bullet 2700+fps. It's plain to see that newer is better. Maybe even more better. Ok then, why the success of this cartridge? My FIL had a Swede. Great gun, but they never caught on. That was a sweet gun. Bought that around 1990 or so. I handload for my modern action 6.5x55, and also for my 1915 dated Swedish bolt action. I don't put modern action handloads into the 1915 bolt action. Factory ammo for a 6.5x55 Swede will only get you 2200-2300fps. The Creedmore will get you the 2700+fps from factory ammo. Handloading the 6.5x55 for modern action firearms makes it as fast as the Creedmore. Hunters and target shooters want a cartridge that will have a flatter shooting bullet. Speed in the 6.5 gives them it. Hence the acceptance of the 6.5 Creedmore. But for a handloader, the bottom line of the 6.5x55 vs the 6.5 Creedmore is the two shoot the same 6.5 bullet at the same speed. I have rifles chambered for the 6.5x55 and dies and quality brass for the 6.5x55. Why change? |
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Post by Dutch on Feb 17, 2019 19:31:52 GMT -5
Ok then, why the success of this cartridge? My FIL had a Swede. Great gun, but they never caught on. That was a sweet gun. Bought that around 1990 or so. I handload for my modern action 6.5x55, and also for my 1915 dated Swedish bolt action. I don't put modern action handloads into the 1915 bolt action. Factory ammo for a 6.5x55 Swede will only get you 2200-2300fps. The Creedmore will get you the 2700+fps from factory ammo. Handloading the 6.5x55 for modern action firearms makes it as fast as the Creedmore. Hunters and target shooters want a cartridge that will have a flatter shooting bullet. Speed in the 6.5 gives them it. Hence the acceptance of the 6.5 Creedmore. But for a handloader, the bottom line of the 6.5x55 vs the 6.5 Creedmore is the two shoot the same 6.5 bullet at the same speed. I have rifles chambered for the 6.5x55 and dies and quality brass for the 6.5x55. Why change? No reason to change |
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Post by Dutch on Feb 17, 2019 19:34:56 GMT -5
The Creedmoor righted the wrongs of the Swede and the 260.
Factory loads for the Swede could never be beefed up.
The 260 started out with the wrong twists and never recovered
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Post by davet on Feb 18, 2019 9:07:22 GMT -5
The Creedmoor righted the wrongs of the Swede and the 260. Factory loads for the Swede could never be beefed up. The 260 started out with the wrong twists and never recovered I dunno if the Swede was ever really "wrong." Remember that cartridge was developed in the early 1900's and back then a 140gr. projectile at 2300fps or so did the job of punching holes in the enemy. Now.....the 260....that's 'nuther story!! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2019 11:42:05 GMT -5
The Swede is wrong for today. The younger shooting crowd is of the tactical mindset and as far as bolt action rifles they're into fast twist, long COAL, and high BC's. 19th and early 20th century cartridges aren't appealing to them.
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Post by turkeykiller on Feb 18, 2019 12:15:22 GMT -5
Another forgotten caliber is the .264 Win Mag. My buddy had one custom built in the 70's. Deadly fast and accurate. They had a reputation for burin out the barrel.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2019 7:18:43 GMT -5
Interesting thing about the Creedmoor, and I hate to hijack this thread because the 350 Legend is something worth talking about in it's own right, but the Creedmoor is supposed to be a low recoil alternative for folks who need such. Now because rifle recoil has sent my heart into AFIB a couple times before it's one of the things that I need to mostly eliminate because I have to try to stay out of AFIB or they're going to start looking at more drastic measures than just medication. So I looked at Creedmoor recoil numbers and they're right there with the 270 Win and 308 Win. Just a pound or two behind. That's certainly higher than what I'm looking for and not what I consider "low recoil".
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Post by Dutch on Feb 19, 2019 17:20:34 GMT -5
Interesting thing about the Creedmoor, and I hate to hijack this thread because the 350 Legend is something worth talking about in it's own right, but the Creedmoor is supposed to be a low recoil alternative for folks who need such. Now because rifle recoil has sent my heart into AFIB a couple times before it's one of the things that I need to mostly eliminate because I have to try to stay out of AFIB or they're going to start looking at more drastic measures than just medication. So I looked at Creedmoor recoil numbers and they're right there with the 270 Win and 308 Win. Just a pound or two behind. That's certainly higher than what I'm looking for and not what I consider "low recoil". In my 6.5 lb gun, it hits you. I shot the 308 during the same session last year, with a reduced load, and it actually felt less. Different calibers recoil differently. Some are sharp, some are a shove. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2019 17:22:32 GMT -5
Very true. My son shot my 35 Whelen today and he was surprise at how sharp recoil was compared to his 375 H&H. Even though the 375 has a lot more of it.
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Post by turkeykiller on Feb 19, 2019 17:49:57 GMT -5
Alot of the recoil from a rifle depends on the shape of the stock.
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