|
Post by GlennD on Aug 18, 2014 17:48:15 GMT -5
Pigeon shoots, groundhog shoots, shooting carp with a bow, starlings, crackles, rats, doves, bunnies, squirrels, foxes, deer, bear, stepping on spiders.... etc..
The animal rights gang does not think any animal should be killed whether for food, sport, pest control, or defense.
If pigeons go, next will be doves. A lot of people associate doves with peace and weddings.
|
|
|
Post by Dutch on Aug 18, 2014 20:06:59 GMT -5
Feral cats are pests Mutt. If your cat is a valued pet, it should not be outside unattended and using other peoples lawns and flower beds as litter boxes.
Feral cats without shots are a health risk to all. They should be shot.
I know a person right now that is shooting feral cats in his neighborhood because there are simply to many and he is tired of dealing with the problems they cause. Why should he?
Not much difference between a feral cat and a pigeon, if you ask me.
|
|
|
Post by grouse28 on Aug 18, 2014 21:40:51 GMT -5
You are right, HSUS is watching all these online arguments among hunters. You are a fool if you think otherwise. Pigeon shoots, Sunday hunting, doe hunting, you name it, they are looking for opportunities. They are far better organized and smarter than the average Joe Hunter with his narrow field of view. HSUS has a broad field of view with goals and objectives and they will destroy your way of life while you argue over doe permits. I am so tired of the BS opposition over Sunday Hunting. Most states allow it and if you were raised in one of those states you would think nothing of it. If you paid for a guided hunt in one of those states I would bet my left nut you would be hunting Sunday. Cut out this argumentative crap and stand together. We do not have to agree 100% all the time, but I will support your stand if my objection will jeopardize our right to hunt. Know your enemy, he is not the doe hunter or pigeon shooter next door.
|
|
|
Post by Dutch on Aug 18, 2014 21:46:26 GMT -5
I support anyone's right to shoot a feral cat tho.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 4:35:23 GMT -5
Feral cats are pests Mutt. If your cat is a valued pet, it should not be outside unattended and using other peoples lawns and flower beds as litter boxes. Feral cats without shots are a health risk to all. They should be shot. I know a person right now that is shooting feral cats in his neighborhood because there are simply to many and he is tired of dealing with the problems they cause. Why should he? Not much difference between a feral cat and a pigeon, if you ask me. I support anyone's right to shoot a feral cat tho. That is exactly the attitude I was referring to. It is similar to the "I hate snakes" crowd's pronouncements. Don't be too proud of yourself, Dutch.
|
|
|
Post by Dutch on Aug 19, 2014 4:48:03 GMT -5
Mutt, why should people have to put up with feral cats and the problems they cause?
At one time, there probably was no law against shooting them, now, due to HSUS types, we have laws that prevent it.
NO responsible pet owner allows their cat to run free. Dogs aren't allowed, and people get fined for not picking up dog waste but cats get a free pass.
The one apartment complex I lived at had a colony of feral cats. They paid a trapper to come in and kill them. Had someone been bitten by one, or contracted some illness due to them, who would have been sued for not doing something about them?
Some say pigeons are vermin. So are feral cats.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 5:10:47 GMT -5
The actual question, Dutch, is how do you know the cat you shot is a feral cat and not a cat owned by one of your neighbors? The answer is, you don't, really. I guess you don't see your posts on this subject as either opinionated or offering support to HSUS, but I do. It is your forum, so you get the last post on the subject.
|
|
|
Post by Dutch on Aug 19, 2014 5:19:57 GMT -5
When you see cats living in sewer pipes, rock piles or under sheds, well........
Again, responsible pet owners don't allow their cats to run free. It's not safe for the cat, or the community.
How many cats do you see flattened on the road? How many were pets? You let them run, you run the risk of losing one to a car, coyote, or someone fed up with dealing with YOUR problem.
|
|
|
Post by ridgecommander on Aug 19, 2014 5:51:05 GMT -5
Pets are pets and are meant to be kept within the household. I have no sympathy for cute cats running loose.
|
|
|
Post by dougell on Aug 19, 2014 7:39:14 GMT -5
The actual question, Dutch, is how do you know the cat you shot is a feral cat and not a cat owned by one of your neighbors? The answer is, you don't, really. I guess you don't see your posts on this subject as either opinionated or offering support to HSUS, but I do. It is your forum, so you get the last post on the subject. I see Dutch's point but I also see your point.I don't think pet cats should be allowed to run loose but the sneaky buggers can get out pretty easy.I'd feel like a big turd if I killed someone's pet.I have a few running around my house but they get a pass because I really don't know if they're pets or not.
|
|
|
Post by galthatfishes on Aug 21, 2014 16:03:09 GMT -5
Today on Facebook, HSUS is asking anyone in PA to sign a petition ending pigeon shoots in a sponsored ad. Yep, paying for the ad.
My gut tells me they know a vote is on the way- ................
What is next? Doves. Pheasant. Bobcat, then...
|
|
|
Post by dougell on Aug 21, 2014 16:38:29 GMT -5
Pigeon shoots are a legislative issue.Isn't the PGC in charge of regulating a bobcat and dove season?I still fail to see how these pigeon shoots are related in any way to hunting.
|
|
|
Post by Dutch on Aug 21, 2014 16:41:43 GMT -5
Doug, at one time it was illegal to hunt doves and squirrels in PA.
The legislature had to add them......
What the "Lord" giveth, the "Lord" can taketh away......
|
|
|
Post by Dutch on Aug 21, 2014 16:43:00 GMT -5
Pigeon shoots are a legislative issue.Isn't the PGC in charge of regulating a bobcat and dove season?I still fail to see how these pigeon shoots are related in any way to hunting. They aren't hunting and should not be lumped in with hunting issues. HSUS knocks one thing off, then goes after another..... which MAY be bobcats, or otters, or fishers......
|
|
|
Post by dougell on Aug 21, 2014 17:01:35 GMT -5
I understand that but since the PGC regulates bobcats,what could the HSUS do about it?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 17:28:40 GMT -5
The reason HSUS opposes pigeon shoots is that a pigeon is an animal and pigeons get killed at pigeon shoots. The reason they oppose hunting is that animals get killed by hunters. While some of you may not wish the two were not related in any way, they are. HSUS opposes killing any animal, and believes that any animal has the same inalienable rights as does any human being. They also oppose pet ownership, but don't publicize that very much because they know most of their contributors own pets. If HSUS wins this one they will consider it a victory in their war to ban all kinds of hunting in which animals are killed. It will be used to show the great unwashed and uninformed that they can win the war, and it will increase their contributions. They invented the term, "blood sport," and miss no opportunity to use it to our detriment. It bothers me is that some of our own members use that term. Some hunters are also fond of referring to the deer management plan as "slaughter" when it suits them. In the words of the immortal Pogo, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."
I would say that it is far more likely that HSUS would go after bear hunting next than any other species. Bears are cute and cuddly in Disney films, and that is where most people get their knowledge of nature. Walt Disney missed no chance to portray hunters as evil and forest animals such as deer and bears as cute and cuddly. His organization survives him with the same attitude. Example: In the movie, Pocahontas prevents Captain John Smith from killing a raccoon. She is portrayed as an animal rights advocate. I'm sure most first Americans avoided killing animals because they thought it was wrong. NOT! I still remember Lisa Jackson, then New Jersey Sec'y of Interior or some such saying, "I talked to the secretaries in my office and we agree you shouldn't shoot those cute bears." She said this before she cancelled the bear season in New Jersey that year. That was so ridiculous that she became head of the EPA and was at one time a biggy in the Obama administration. Fortunately, New Jersey has risen beyond the Lisa Jackson level of intelligence, at least as far as bear management is concerned.
On another subject, I would like to clarify something about the feral cat discussion. I live in a very rural area; not as rural as some but much more rural than other areas that are subject to urban sprawl as is Lancaster County for example. In beautiful downtown Saint Thomas, very few household pets are in the house 100% of the time. Most dogs are pretty much under control, but we do get the occasional stray (or worse yet, drop offs), many of which end up at our house. Drop offs are animals that people decide they do not want anymore, and do not wish to submit to the local animal shelter because of the cost. The baseball field in Saint Thomas is a really convenient place to drop off unwanted pets. We do have a problem with drop offs. My W 1 FE unit has to give a report to our township supervisors as to how many strays the local shelter picks up. So far this year we are over 100 cats and dogs. We have a much greater problem in our area with people who hoard huge numbers of cats or dogs in a house and don't care for them than we do with feral cats or free roaming packs of dogs.
If we had a problem with feral cats in Saint Thomas I might be more inclined to agree with you who enjoy shooting them. We don't have such a problem. I would have no way of knowing if a cat that comes past the house is a pet owned and loved by one of my neighbors who lives in an adjoining area. While it is true that cats kill birds and baby rabbits, hunters kill rabbits and birds too. For many of our local farmers, the barn cats are their main method of rodent control. Those cats are not kept inside either. Some farmers don't care much about their cats, but some do, so be careful when hunting small game or deer that the cat you shoot does not get your favorite hunting parcel posted.
The attitude that any animal that kills game we might be able to shoot is evil and needs to be killed is a holdover from the days when we paid bounties for foxes and great horned owls. It is good that we have mostly got beyond that and realize that those animals, as do snakes, have a place in nature. I am also not suggesting that feral cats are not a problem in other areas and do not need to be dealt with. Wolves were native to Pennsylvania. Coyotes are here now, and there is little we can do about that. I realize that housecats are not native to our area, but neither are chukar partridges or ringnecked pheasants.
You may feel that you are right in wanting all cats that are allowed outside to be killed, but I disagree with that just as much as I would disagree with killing all dogs that may be running free at the time. I know some who will feel justified in killing a dog they see in the woods while deer hunting. Not much difference in my mind. It would, however, be nice if yinz avoided giving ammunition to our enemies.
|
|
|
Post by dougell on Aug 21, 2014 17:52:24 GMT -5
George,I don't oppose pigeon shoots.It's not my cup of tea but I really don't care what anyone does with a pigeon.I do know that many non-hunters find the practice distasteful.That's enough to make me distance myself from these pigeon shoots rather than support them since they really have nothing to do with hunting and truthfully,they're hard to defend.In my view,defending them will cause a loss of credibility to those non-hunters who I want support from.I feel it's just best to keep our moths shut on the issue.
I like most domestic animals and I tolerate cats.I'm not a cat person but I wouldn't want to hurt one either.Dogs and horses are a different story.I have more respect for most dogs and horses than I have for many people.When they get mistreated,it makes me violently upset.Just because I support strict laws concerning dogs and horses,doesn't mean I support the wack jobs at the HSUS.
Hunting is easy to defend and I feel it's a better practice to stick to defending something that we have solid facts about.
|
|
|
Post by dougell on Aug 21, 2014 17:54:10 GMT -5
Doug, at one time it was illegal to hunt doves and squirrels in PA. The legislature had to add them...... What the "Lord" giveth, the "Lord" can taketh away...... I'm just asking because I don't know.Can the legislature step in at this time and close down deer season,bear season or bobcat season?
|
|
|
Post by ridgecommander on Aug 21, 2014 18:16:36 GMT -5
I'm just asking because I don't know.Can the legislature step in at this time and close down deer season,bear season or bobcat season? Yep. They can pretty much do as they please since they oversee the agency.
|
|
|
Post by Dutch on Aug 21, 2014 18:46:49 GMT -5
Doug, at one time it was illegal to hunt doves and squirrels in PA. The legislature had to add them...... What the "Lord" giveth, the "Lord" can taketh away...... I'm just asking because I don't know.Can the legislature step in at this time and close down deer season,bear season or bobcat season? They close down deer, bear and bobcat seasons on Sunday's. Therefore, if they wish, they can make it 7 days a week.
|
|
|
Post by Dutch on Aug 21, 2014 18:51:55 GMT -5
George, when one is afraid to walk in their yard or work in flower beds due to cat excrement, there is a problem. In the cities, towns, there is a problem with feral cats, in SOME areas.
|
|
|
Post by grouse28 on Aug 22, 2014 7:27:42 GMT -5
In this discussion, pigeon shoots have everything to do with hunting. HSUS does not draw a difference and neither should we. Stick together they do. They are radical in their thinking, we must be also. Support your local pigeon shoot! Can the legislature ban bear hunting? Ask the hunters in Maine. HSUS is pushing a ban on bear hunting with dogs and baiting, also a ban on trapping. While you may not agree with baiting bears of hunting them with dogs, you must support the hunters of Maine. How did Maine get into this predicament? Millions of dollars from HSUS and they did enough lying to get the issue on a referendum for the general public to vote on it (November). This method completely bypasses any wildlife agency or intelligent wildlife management. We all think of Maine as a sportsman's paradise full of good ole country folk and woodsman, however as in PA the urban types far outnumber the hunters, fisherman and trappers. Beware the vote with an ignorant population. Well actually not ignorant, HSUS is educating them with lies and millions. I see so much discussion on these boards about disagreements between hunters about selfish ideals, (no deer, not enough/too many doe permits, rack size, hen vs cockbirds), we are great at fighting these little skirmishes amoungst ourselves and not seeing the war around us. This is exactly what HSUS wants. What happened in Maine can happen anywhere. Wake up people, stick together. There is no in-fighting within HSUS they have goals and are driven to achieve them. Our only goal seems to be whether we can fill a deer tag and bitch when we don't.
|
|
|
Post by ridgecommander on Aug 22, 2014 8:24:33 GMT -5
In this discussion, pigeon shoots have everything to do with hunting. HSUS does not draw a difference and neither should we. Stick together they do. They are radical in their thinking, we must be also. Support your local pigeon shoot! Can the legislature ban bear hunting? Ask the hunters in Maine. HSUS is pushing a ban on bear hunting with dogs and baiting, also a ban on trapping. While you may not agree with baiting bears of hunting them with dogs, you must support the hunters of Maine. How did Maine get into this predicament? Millions of dollars from HSUS and they did enough lying to get the issue on a referendum for the general public to vote on it (November). This method completely bypasses any wildlife agency or intelligent wildlife management. We all think of Maine as a sportsman's paradise full of good ole country folk and woodsman, however as in PA the urban types far outnumber the hunters, fisherman and trappers. Beware the vote with an ignorant population. Well actually not ignorant, HSUS is educating them with lies and millions. I see so much discussion on these boards about disagreements between hunters about selfish ideals, (no deer, not enough/too many doe permits, rack size, hen vs cockbirds), we are great at fighting these little skirmishes amoungst ourselves and not seeing the war around us. This is exactly what HSUS wants. What happened in Maine can happen anywhere. Wake up people, stick together. There is no in-fighting within HSUS they have goals and are driven to achieve them. Our only goal seems to be whether we can fill a deer tag and bitch when we don't. Yep. Whether we personally participate in a particular sport or technique or not, it is imperative that all hunters fully support other hunter's choices and pursuits.
|
|
|
Post by Dutch on Aug 22, 2014 10:52:17 GMT -5
In this discussion, pigeon shoots have everything to do with hunting. HSUS does not draw a difference and neither should we. Stick together they do. They are radical in their thinking, we must be also. Support your local pigeon shoot! Can the legislature ban bear hunting? Ask the hunters in Maine. HSUS is pushing a ban on bear hunting with dogs and baiting, also a ban on trapping. While you may not agree with baiting bears of hunting them with dogs, you must support the hunters of Maine. How did Maine get into this predicament? Millions of dollars from HSUS and they did enough lying to get the issue on a referendum for the general public to vote on it (November). This method completely bypasses any wildlife agency or intelligent wildlife management. We all think of Maine as a sportsman's paradise full of good ole country folk and woodsman, however as in PA the urban types far outnumber the hunters, fisherman and trappers. Beware the vote with an ignorant population. Well actually not ignorant, HSUS is educating them with lies and millions. I see so much discussion on these boards about disagreements between hunters about selfish ideals, (no deer, not enough/too many doe permits, rack size, hen vs cockbirds), we are great at fighting these little skirmishes amoungst ourselves and not seeing the war around us. This is exactly what HSUS wants. What happened in Maine can happen anywhere. Wake up people, stick together. There is no in-fighting within HSUS they have goals and are driven to achieve them. Our only goal seems to be whether we can fill a deer tag and bitch when we don't. I guess PART of my problem with this is that some who are opposed to Sunday hunting and say it's not needed, want our full support to defend pigeon shoots, which truly, aren't needed. One item furthers the sport and future of hunting, and HSUS OPPOSES, the other, well, not so sure what it does for the sport of hunting, yet people support it, but don't want to support more opportunity for present day hunters? Sort of hypocritical, wouldn't you say?
|
|
|
Post by dougell on Aug 22, 2014 16:27:30 GMT -5
I wouldn't support baiting even though it's legal in some states.I wouldn't support being able to use a vehicle to locate game like it's legal in some states.
|
|