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Post by moosemike on Dec 9, 2022 16:38:00 GMT -5
Earlier in the season on the first Monday I came face to face with a 5 point at 35 yards. As I swung my 30-30 up he bolted and I fired. I had bright red blood and a lot of it for 150 yards then it started fizzling out to nothing. My son and I decided to split up and comb the area. A few minutes he jumped it and took it off its feet for good with his 300 Savage. His deer. I'm glad. Fast forward to last night. Right at dark I shot a Doe with my 243. Couldn't find it. Came back this morning. Couldn't find it. Came back this afternoon and finally found it. It died up against a dead fall and I missed it this morning. Coyotes hit it overnight. No blood on that one. I'm not sure that I feel I should still be out here. I've drawn blood twice now with nothing to show for it. I'm sitting against a tree right now with a 308 across my lap. I'm done with pop guns for the season
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Post by rusty on Dec 9, 2022 16:42:10 GMT -5
Don't take this the wrong way, Mike, but it isn't the guns fault.
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Post by davet on Dec 9, 2022 18:16:55 GMT -5
Hey....."stuff" happens. Don't be so down on yourself. You fed the coyotes, you will likely feed some raccoons, and buzzards. Get back out there....aim small...miss small!
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Post by Loggy on Dec 9, 2022 19:28:24 GMT -5
Good luck on the next one Mike!! We've all had our strings of bad luck. Ever consider a 6.5 Creedmoor??
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Post by moosemike on Dec 9, 2022 19:51:43 GMT -5
Indeed I have. But I don't need anymore guns 😅
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Post by Dutch on Dec 9, 2022 19:58:05 GMT -5
Don't discount those Creedmoors. LOL
308 will do the trick.
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Post by Loggy on Dec 9, 2022 20:01:00 GMT -5
So far with my 6.5 I've only killed 5 deer & one PA elk. I must say though that all dropped in their tracks. Now the PA Elk was double lunged 2 shots & froze in it's tracks & ultimately dropped with a 3rd neck shot...all 3 shots spanning less than a minute. All the deer were one shot. The 140 grain Federal Fusions seem to be the ticket in the 6.5 for me. On the elk I was using 156 Grain Norma Orynz(bonded) but looking back thinking the 140 Fusions may have dropped more foot pounds energy in the Elk vs blowing through?
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Post by buzz on Dec 9, 2022 20:08:22 GMT -5
It happens Mike. Bullet choice is as important as caliber , but you know that. Hopefully your 308 brings you luck and your confidence back.
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I'm bummed
Dec 10, 2022 10:09:35 GMT -5
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Post by moosemike on Dec 10, 2022 10:09:35 GMT -5
Don't take this the wrong way, Mike, but it isn't the guns fault. I'll say this sunshine. I've shot something like 10 deer, a bear, and a Moose with the 30-30. Enough to know that the 30-30 has no mercy on your sins. If you don't hit them textbook perfect good luck finding them. And the Moose? I dug my mushroomed 170 out of the heart. Adequate to kill on a classic broadside shot but that's not adequate penetration for Moose. It's still a popgun. The 308 and 30-06 do so much more
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Post by rusty on Dec 10, 2022 13:26:50 GMT -5
I've killed quite a few with a 30-30. My son has killed a few with a .243. I don't hunt with a rifle much anymore but When I plan on walking/still hunting I carry the 30-30. If I'm posted up I use a .270. I'm not saying I've never lost a deer, but the few I have has never been the gun's fault.
Might have sounded like I was being critical. I was not. Anyone who has hunted for years has likely had a deer or two get away because of a less than lethal hit. Things happen with any weapon. This is just the 3rd year my wife has rifle hunted and she shoots a .308. She has shot a few with it and none was unrecovered until this morning. She hit one early and we followed the blood for about 5-600 yards 'til the deer crossed a stream and onto posted property where we heard a shot. Hopefully it was better than the one she made. Good luck with the .3o8. It sounds like you're having a rare year. It happens to every hunter. Again, I was not being critical.
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Post by moosemike on Dec 10, 2022 14:52:47 GMT -5
Sad for her. I know how it feels
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Post by davet on Dec 10, 2022 16:41:25 GMT -5
It's ballistics. The 30-30, albeit a solid projectile for the usual sub-100 yard shots made in Pa, but the 150gr. bullets average 2300fps with the fastest (according to Loaddata) with Leverevolution powder pushing the 2500fps mark. The average for my .308 using 42gr Varget is 2677fps. However, with a max load the Lyman 50th edition shows 47.0gr Varget for a velocity of 2890fps. (Which appears a bit high to me)
I use the lower .308 load as that is what gives my .308 the best accuracy.
A 30-30 pushing a 150gr at the 2300fps is no match for the .308 pushing the same weight bullet at 2700-2800fps. Plus the .308 can use spitzer bullets that provide a better BC and much better down range energy.
But if you compare a 6.5 projectile to the .308 projectile, the 6.5 has superior ballistics and better down range energy.
FWIW
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 10, 2022 17:08:34 GMT -5
Know the limitations of the gun and your shooting ability and don't take shots that are not absolutely ideal for both.
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I'm bummed
Dec 10, 2022 17:57:15 GMT -5
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Post by moosemike on Dec 10, 2022 17:57:15 GMT -5
Know the limitations of the gun and your shooting ability and don't take shots that are not absolutely ideal for both. Ok so you're telling me not to shoot 35 yards. Got it. What's my limit? Just so I fuggin' know for next time and all. Because nobody can just fucc up. It has to be that I'm beyond my abilities. Fuqqing laughing myself to tears here
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Post by davet on Dec 10, 2022 18:16:47 GMT -5
Know the limitations of the gun and your shooting ability and don't take shots that are not absolutely ideal for both. Ok so you're telling me not to shoot 35 yards. Got it. What's my limit? Just so I fuggin' know for next time and all. Because nobody can just fucc up. It has to be that I'm beyond my abilities. Fuqqing laughing myself to tears here Here's the ballistics from my 16" barrel 30-30 shooting a 150gr Serria Jacketed Flat Nose. And my Winchester 308 shooting a 150gr Spitzer style bullet. Once you get past 150yds the energy gets on the slim side. As you can see, the energy of the 30-30 at 200 yards is 809-ft\lbs, while the .308 at 200 yds is 1,704-ft\lbs....or over twice as much! And the ballistics for my .308 load
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I'm bummed
Dec 10, 2022 18:33:39 GMT -5
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Post by Dutch on Dec 10, 2022 18:33:39 GMT -5
My brother had a perfect 30 yds broadside shot a couple years ago. Fires, deer disappears. Walks down to where the deer was standing and a buck is standing 30 yds below watching him. Of course he didn't shoot, as he was sure his buck was somewhere.
Turns out, a complete miss, and the "second" buck he saw was the one he shot at.
So, a miss or wounding can occur even on a close shot.
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I'm bummed
Dec 10, 2022 18:34:52 GMT -5
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Post by Dutch on Dec 10, 2022 18:34:52 GMT -5
Bullet placement is more important than anything, IMO
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Post by davet on Dec 10, 2022 18:42:04 GMT -5
Bullet placement is more important than anything, IMO Bullet placement is always key. But more energy isn't a bad thing....unless you're passing it through a meaty rump. This year's buck was hit by a 325gr 45-70 Hornady gummy tip loaded to the max. The hit was at 160yds. 1,845-ft\lbs of energy. Heart shot and he still ran 60yds. Here's the heart:
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I'm bummed
Dec 10, 2022 19:03:05 GMT -5
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Post by Dutch on Dec 10, 2022 19:03:05 GMT -5
Any heart shot deer will die quickly.
Throw a shot towards a deer, hit them in the guts or elsewhere, and it takes a long time to die
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Post by rusty on Dec 10, 2022 19:06:37 GMT -5
If one takes out the heart, the lungs, or the spine recovery is quick. Gut/liver shots take longer but are fatal. It's pretty much true with any weapon. I've seen a few deer survive having a leg shot off, one three legged doe that I know of raised twins for at least three years. When she ran it was hard to tell anything was wrong.
I'm impressed with the toughness of whitetail deer, but a well placed bullet rarely fails to do it's job.
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I'm bummed
Dec 10, 2022 20:05:48 GMT -5
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Post by moosemike on Dec 10, 2022 20:05:48 GMT -5
Bullet placement is more important than anything, IMO Absolutely. But sometimes we simply screw up. I was a little off on the buck. The doe I hit well but she went into some awful tangle on a steep side hill and the 243 didn't give me a blood trail unfortunately.
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Post by davet on Dec 11, 2022 6:39:20 GMT -5
Any heart shot deer will die quickly. Throw a shot towards a deer, hit them in the guts or elsewhere, and it takes a long time to die I can't agree more. Placement is everything. Hit 'em in the guts and it's a long day....or more....and you still may just be feeding the coyotes. I only showed the pic of this years buck as an example of what 160yds of 45-70 with 1,845-ft\lbs of energy, vs a 30-30 with 906-ft\lbs. Had I hit that buck a little forward it may have been a longer day. I've hit many in the heart....and to the best of my memory the longest they have run is 60yds. However, the largest rack deer I hit with an arrow....the arrow just sliced the side of the heart and did not open up the chambers of the heart. Buck ran 200 yards.....laid down for 20 minutes.....got back up......laid back down 20 yards later.....I snuck up and waited another 15-20 minutes waiting for him to expire....he got back up...another arrow through the lungs.....another 40yds later it was all over. Placement.....means everything, but additional punch doesn't hurt. And BTW....you know how bad that buck was when a guy with a cane could sneak up on him in an open field.....Mebby "sneak" isn't the right word?
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Post by Loggy on Dec 11, 2022 7:25:08 GMT -5
Some good pointers here but anyone that says they never totally "screwed up" a shot is someone that hasen't really hunted all that much. If you hunt a lot....it will happen but not all are willing to admit it!! lol We had a self proclaimed "sharpshooter" in our camp that we used to secretely count his bullets at beginning & end of day. Had a blast with him over the years!!
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 11, 2022 8:14:17 GMT -5
Ok so you're telling me not to shoot 35 yards. Got it. What's my limit? Just so I fuggin' know for next time and all. Because nobody can just fucc up. It has to be that I'm beyond my abilities. Fuqqing laughing myself to tears here So you are telling me you hit both of those deer in the heart and lungs with a 243 and 30/30 at 35 yards and couldn't find them? Not laughing here, just trying to figure out why you are blaming the "pop" gun. An arrow that has virtually no "energy" kills deer dead in 60 yards if you hit them right. I have lost deer but blame myself, not the gun or bow. Then I learn from it.
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Post by moosemike on Dec 11, 2022 9:13:54 GMT -5
Ok so you're telling me not to shoot 35 yards. Got it. What's my limit? Just so I fuggin' know for next time and all. Because nobody can just fucc up. It has to be that I'm beyond my abilities. Fuqqing laughing myself to tears here So you are telling me you hit both of those deer in the heart and lungs with a 243 and 30/30 at 35 yards and couldn't find them? Not laughing here, just trying to figure out why you are blaming the "pop" gun. An arrow that has virtually no "energy" kills deer dead in 60 yards if you hit them right. I have lost deer but blame myself, not the gun or bow. Then I learn from it. Not telling you a fuqqin thing. I was venting. I've killed plenty with a 243 and a 30-30. I was just fugging venting for Christ's sake can't you get that. Go comfort Job somewhere else
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