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Post by davet on Sept 4, 2021 9:20:15 GMT -5
Every year I take my old Horton Havoc reverse limb crossbow to my range and sight it in. The stated velocity (factory) is 318fps. My next outing I will run the bolts across my chronograph to get the real velocities.
So, I zero it on at 20 yards and get a very good tight....almost arrow splitting group.
Then I go to 30 yards, using my 30 yard pin and determine I must aim about 4" high to hit the bullseye.
Then I go to 40 yards (and it would be a rare occasion for me to shoot 40 yards with this crossbow) and determine that I must use the 50 yard scope crosshair to hit the bullseye at a distance of 40 yards. Hmmmmm. Could be the bow is getting up there in years?
So....I determine the actual 40yd crosshair should be right on at 35 yards. You know.....at 30 yards the 30yd crosshair needs held a bit high. And at 40 yds I gotta use the 50yds crosshair.
So, I go to 35yds and place the 40yd crosshair on the target......and it shoots about 7" high!!!! Grrrrr......
I gotta run the arrows across the crony to get my actual speed. Then maybe I can figure out the crosshair stuff. I will also obtain the actual weight of my bolts and compare that to what the factory bolt weight was.
Any thoughts on this will be appreciated.
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Post by bowbum on Sept 4, 2021 18:18:46 GMT -5
"Old?" How old can it be? My golden Eagle compound is 1997 and just like new with around 45 kills.  Throw that sucker away and get a real bow..... |
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Post by davet on Sept 4, 2021 19:10:08 GMT -5
I have a compound bow. It’s a great bow and is very accurate.
I switched to a crossbow about 6-7 years ago because my disease has caused my left arm to lose strength. There are times when I cannot pull the bow back, and two times I pussed up a doe because I could not hold the bow on target.
After the second one, I went to a crossbow. It was that or just go rifle only.
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Post by ridgecommander on Sept 5, 2021 7:34:20 GMT -5
Dave, I suspect your string has stretched some which has increased your axle to axle length from the factory specs. That will slow the bow down.
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Post by bowbum on Sept 5, 2021 8:58:03 GMT -5
I don't mean to imply that you, or anyone, should go this route but I respect this guy so much that I thought I would share a example of "I ain't giving up" determination.
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Post by davet on Sept 5, 2021 9:38:39 GMT -5
Dave, I suspect your string has stretched some which has increased your axle to axle length from the factory specs. That will slow the bow down. Well, I would agree, but I replaced the strings beginning of last year. Same size & good quality. |
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Post by Loggy on Sept 5, 2021 10:26:46 GMT -5
Cataracts??  |
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Post by davet on Sept 5, 2021 13:19:54 GMT -5
Cataracts?? Nah.....no issues with that stuff at this point.   |
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Post by davet on Sept 8, 2021 10:23:00 GMT -5
Welp, I felt good 'nuff today to slog the crossbow, target and the Chrony over the hill. Found out some interesting "numbers" --20" Bolt weight including 100gr tip = 445gr. --20" Factory Bolt including 100gr tip = 412gr. (I only have one of these left) --Actual speed of 445gr bolt is 255fps. (Average) Now, apparently the factory scope is setup for a bolt speed of around 290-300fps. I'm not getting that. I've oiled the moving stuff that needs oiled, lubed the bolt ramp, and waxed up the strings. The crossbow functions fine and I can see no cracked limbs or "wonky" parts on it. At 40yds the arrow drops a whopping 46" while maintaining a speed of 245fps. (Ballistic calculator) Energy at 40 yards is 59-ft\lbs. Energy right outta the chute is 64-ft\lbs. My scope works out like this: At 10 yards, use the 10yd crosshair At 20 yards, use the 20yd crosshair At 30 yards, use exactly half-way between the 30yd and 40yd crosshairs. At 40 yards, use the 50yd crosshair. I now have a big sticker on the side of the crossbow that has these numbers on it. And BTW, the arrows (bolts...whatever) are hitting dead on at those yardages. However, using a bolt speed of 325fps gives the 40 yard energy calculation of 96-ft\lbs. A pretty big difference. So, now I'm unsure if I should use this crossbow for the oncoming season. I've killed a nice buck in each of the last 3 years with this crossbow.....but these speeds do have me a little concerned.  |
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Post by davet on Sept 9, 2021 5:41:05 GMT -5
In looking around at a new crossbow I find pricing all over the map. The least expensive so far is a "Bear X Intense" package for $330. (Yes.....only $330).
A few negative reviews show the limbs have cracked in short order. OTOH, I've seen reviews of $2,000+ having the same issue.
However, giving a little more thought to this I'm thinking I should look at a lighter weight bolt. As I stated my current bolts weigh in at 445gr (Including a 100gr tip). So, I may be better off (less cost.....good accuracy) in switching to a lighter bolt. Maybe a 400gr weight (Including a 100gr tip).
Just thinking out loud. Gotta run the numbers and see what, if any, additional ft\lb of energy would be gained by this.
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Post by ridgecommander on Sept 9, 2021 6:49:20 GMT -5
Dave, after you had the string replaced did you shoot the bow and was the bow shooting faster than it is now?
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Post by davet on Sept 9, 2021 8:27:38 GMT -5
Dave, after you had the string replaced did you shoot the bow and was the bow shooting faster than it is now? I don’t recall shooting it over the chrony before I changed strings. Something I should have done…..DOH!! |
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Post by ridgecommander on Sept 9, 2021 9:52:31 GMT -5
Dave, after you had the string replaced did you shoot the bow and was the bow shooting faster than it is now? I don’t recall shooting it over the chrony before I changed strings. Something I should have done…..DOH!! I am still thinking that the axle to axle is way too long. Maybe the shop didn't know what the factory specs are and didn't put enough twists in the string when it was replaced. 8 3/8 axle to axle cocked is where you should be. |
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Post by davet on Sept 9, 2021 12:47:34 GMT -5
I don’t recall shooting it over the chrony before I changed strings. Something I should have done…..DOH!! I am still thinking that the axle to axle is way too long. Maybe the shop didn't know what the factory specs are and didn't put enough twists in the string when it was replaced. 8 3/8 axle to axle cocked is where you should be. Ok....so today I took the crossbow over the hill and ran the factory arrow over the crony, and (again) my newer bolts. Results: --- I got 277fps from the factory bolt --- I got 268,270, & 271 fps from the "new" bolts. Now, I have no idea why the speed is greater than yesterdays Numbers. (Yesterdays it was 255fps.) ---I did put a drop of oil on the cam's bearings....maybe that was the reason? Or maybe my crony wasn't setup (unfolded all the way) right? Today I double checked the crony setup and it was as it should have been. Now, I've been searching for the Horton Havoc specs. I don't have my owners manual and I've looked all over the crossbow to try and determine if I have a Horton Havoc 175 or the Horton Havoc 150. Nothing on the crossbow says which model it is. I do have a serial number....it begins with an "R". I don't have the number in front of me. I did come across data at www.midwayusa.com/product/100745641 that states for the Havoc 150: Axle to Axle Width Unloaded: 17-1/2"Axle to Axle Width Loaded: 13-3/8". Then on the RealTree site it shows both the 175 & 150 have the same specs of unloaded 17-1/2"Axle to Axle Width,... Loaded: 8-3/8"My unloaded axle to axle is 16.5" and loaded is 10-3/8". So....mine matches nothing!!!I installed the new string myself and I do recall holding up the old string to the new string for comparison of length. They were (IIRC) pretty much the same. (Maybe a string thickness difference). Of course, the old string had been stretched from use and the new one.....well it was new. So..... ---#1 I dunno which model I have....the 150 or the 175. ---#2 My unloaded and loaded axle to axle measurements don't match either the 150 or the 175 factory specs. If you do the math and subtract the difference between the "unloaded" and the "loaded" axle to axle differences you get: Midway Havoc 150: 4.125" Realtree Havoc 150 & 175: 9.125" Mine: 6.125" Man.....this stuff is all over the place! I may just leave it "as is" and use my modified crosshair calculations. |
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Post by ridgecommander on Sept 9, 2021 13:15:45 GMT -5
I may just leave it "as is" and use my modified crosshair calculations. Since you are itching for a new crossbow anyways and getting a part for that Horton is about impossible, take a risk and put some twists in that string to shorten up the ATA. It should speed it up. Or course, it could also blow the limbs apart, lol. |
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Post by davet on Sept 9, 2021 14:31:09 GMT -5
I may just leave it "as is" and use my modified crosshair calculations. Since you are itching for a new crossbow anyways and getting a part for that Horton is about impossible, take a risk and put some twists in that string to shorten up the ATA. It should speed it up. Or course, it could also blow the limbs apart, lol. Yeah....after some though I may do that. After all....it's only 2" more on the loaded measurement. Hey.....that's what SHE said!!!  How many "twirl's do ya think it will take to get 1" off of each side? |
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Post by ridgecommander on Sept 9, 2021 14:46:40 GMT -5
How many "twirl's do ya think it will take to get 1" off of each side? Quite a few. Probably start with 4 and see where that puts you. Remember if the limbs explode, it wasn't my idea. |
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Post by davet on Sept 9, 2021 14:48:58 GMT -5
I was thinking how could I find out what version of the Havoc do I have? The 150 or the 175.
Then I did a search of my email.....and BAM!! on 8-15-2012 I ordered it from Midway USA and it's a Havoc 175!!
Well.....got that mystery solved!!
Plus....I'm in my 9th year using this crossbow! I would say I got my $600 out of it!!
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Post by bushmaster on Sept 9, 2021 15:14:33 GMT -5
I recently got into this crossbow thing. They are pretty awesome. Still going to hunt with the longbow this season I think though. I've been shooting 30 arrows a night and my groups are improving every outing. My buddy stopped by last weekend with his new Wicked Ridge crossbow. It was really nice and light. It shot great. Just a thought. I'm thinking you can find one in the 500 to 700 range as far price goes.
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Post by ridgecommander on Sept 17, 2021 6:25:01 GMT -5
Well, what did you end up doing Dave?
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Post by davet on Sept 17, 2021 6:49:17 GMT -5
Well, what did you end up doing Dave? Well, for now I'm leaving it "as is". I don't have a bow press and when I changed the strings last year I made an easy to use bow press.....and the 2x4's that I used are now cut up and used for something else. I didn't wanna mess with making another press. I put a sticker on the cheek weld of the bow that has all of my correct sightings to use. I figure for those times that I'm just waiting, I can read the "notes" enough to have 'em memorized. The bow has plenty of energy out to 40 yards, as long as I do my part. It's very accurate at any yardage as well. But then.....Bushmaster get's me thinking with his post of a Wicked Ridge crossbow that's in my price range. Hmmmmmmmm...... |
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Post by davet on Feb 12, 2022 15:42:02 GMT -5
I was reading a report on hunting in Africa on another un-named site and started down the road (again) of looking at crossbow speed and cost.
The Wicked Ridge 400--something has a cost of $600-$800, depending upon options, but the WR will fling a 445gr bolt at 375fps. That's 100fps more than my current crossbow.
I've looked at a few youtube videos and see these new-fangled crossbows come with a built in crank....which frankly, I'm not all that impressed with....or a Sled device that has an auto-recoil storage of the cocking sled. That's pretty cool....and it cost less!!
Maybe Ridge knows when the newbie next year models are gonna get announced? I may wait until then and mebby pick up a deal on the "last year" crossbow....depending upon the cost difference. But I think it may be time to buy a new one that has better\faster speed....and accordingly, will kill a whitetail "more better."
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Post by CoureurDeBois on Feb 12, 2022 19:59:39 GMT -5
I have a Wicked Ridge, traded my 10 point on it.. The ten point had a hand crank for cocking, was nice but was loud and made the bow heavy. I like the WR as Xbox’s go, but I’m not a die hard bow hunter either.
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Post by davet on Feb 13, 2022 5:40:54 GMT -5
Now, with my disease doing repetative physical activities cause's my muscle's to slow down and even stop for a short period. So, when I watch the number of "cranks" of the handle it takes to cock the crossbow as compared to using the cocking device....I wonder how they sell those cranking devices for $100 more.
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Post by CoureurDeBois on Feb 13, 2022 7:33:11 GMT -5
Now, with my disease doing repetative physical activities cause's my muscle's to slow down and even stop for a short period. So, when I watch the number of "cranks" of the handle it takes to cock the crossbow as compared to using the cocking device....I wonder how they sell those cranking devices for $100 more. Because for some it’s their only course if they want to bow hunt. Do to my back surgery last August I was limited to lifting no more than 10 pounds, and I’m still at a 35 lb limit. I did hear that the new ones make no sound now, but still increase the overall weight of the bow by a couple of pounds. They do make cocking very easy , but have there draw backs too. |
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