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Post by dougell on Jan 8, 2019 15:56:46 GMT -5
That I am.I even pre-warned Dutch.It's winter and I have nothing more constructive to do.You wanna buy a stryker 380?My kid decided to use it the last day when it was freezing.He shot a deer and blew the limbs with 5 days left of the warranty.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 16:02:05 GMT -5
And here is another thing, we now have turkey guns and loads that will kill at 60-70 yds. When the first gobbler season came in, none of that stuff existed, yet no one mentions how it has evolved Yep,you have a fairly high percentage of guys using specialized scoped shotguns that look like they came out of a science fiction movie.I just don't get it. It's marketing, and there's a sucker born every minute.
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470 fps.
Jan 8, 2019 16:21:57 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 16:21:57 GMT -5
That I am.I even pre-warned Dutch.It's winter and I have nothing more constructive to do.You wanna buy a stryker 380?My kid decided to use it the last day when it was freezing.He shot a deer and blew the limbs with 5 days left of the warranty. Doug, I also have a Bowtech Stryker/Strykezone 380, purchased in 2012. I'm fairly sure there is a lifetime warranty on it. I had to have my limbs replaced twice due to splitting, most recently this past summer. I had to pay for the labor, but was not charged for parts. Bowtech stands behind their equipment. If you Google the bow, they have a .PDF availabe that explains their lifetime warranty.
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Post by dougell on Jan 8, 2019 16:37:15 GMT -5
This time it didn't cost me a dime but the shop told me it was a 5yr warranty and they'll only replace them once.I haven't looked into it any deeper.
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470 fps.
Jan 8, 2019 17:00:43 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 17:00:43 GMT -5
Hmm. Who knows? Maybe Stryker changed the warranty? Maybe it's the shop? I know they had limb problems for a period of time but I was told it was corrected. They also over-emphasized making sure your bolt nock is tightly seated. If not it can cause limb issues.
Eh! Go buy the boy a new SuperThwacker 859 fps crossbow. j/k
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Post by dougell on Jan 8, 2019 17:08:26 GMT -5
I'll get one of Gene's hand me down promos lol.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 17:26:45 GMT -5
I am working on a patent for my hybrid crossbow. It consists of a reverse bow with electric draw, which places the bolt automatically into a chamber into which 100grains of FF is placed. The chamber is primed with a shotgun primer. When the trigger is pulled a firing pin hits the primer an discharges the powder in the chamber which propels the bolt forward, helped along by the string. I have achieved velocities of well over1,000 fps, but have a small problem to overcome. Help me out with this. When the powder ignites it burns through the strings, usually on the second shot. I have to keep replacing strings, and if I don't I have to replace broken limbs. I'm thinking of trying stainless steel cable for strings. Whadyathink?
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Post by dougell on Jan 8, 2019 17:38:59 GMT -5
I think you should only need one shot.See,problem solved.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 17:47:10 GMT -5
Create a spool string feeder with auto-advance like you have on your weed whacker.
You're welcome.😁
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 18:43:05 GMT -5
Again,nothing against crossbows or those who use them.However,even 400 fps with a compact,narrow,scoped crossbow isn't even close to archery,not even close.About two months ago,I was at Jim's sport center in Clearfield.They sell bows and crossbows,including tenpoint.I was handling one of tenpoint's new reverse draw crossbow.I forget the model but it was the last one they had at $999.They were completely sold out of the one that cost $1599. People will and are buying the high end crossbows.Doug, you get it: "even 400 fps with a compact,narrow,scoped crossbow isn't even close to archery,not even close", exactly. If it don't walk like a duck, or quack like a duck...it's not a duck. And remember today's $1,500 x-bows will be tomorrow's $ 600 x-bow. And then repeat and repeat and repeat each year going forward. It seems some cheerleaders "can't see the forest for the trees." Just sayin"
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 7:06:48 GMT -5
Sorry about this being so long. don't read it if you don't want to.
Just to put this whole thing into some sort of time/perspective, I started into archery while in Junior High with a cheap recurve bow and really cheap arrows. I actually killed a few rabbits with it. I didn't do much with it until I went to college in Shippensburg. Somehow I got involved with a local archery club and bought a Ben Pearson recurve and some used aluminum arrows for it and started shooting field courses. A guy from Bendersville named Lee Dugan was a really good shot, and he decided he needed a new bow so he sold me his Hoyt Pro Medalist. That bow was great. I eventually ended up taking second place in the state field archery tournament in Fairmount Park in Philadelphia in 1964. Shortly before that in 1963, I bought a Bear Kodiak (the same model Fred Bear used), and took my first deer with it, using cedar telephone poles with real turkey feathers and bear razorheads. It was a doe. I took my second doe with this outfit on the edge of an orchard in Saint Thomas in 1965. For some reason, probably having to do with buying a house, coaching, and working two and sometimes three jobs, I gave up archery for quite awhile. I had a son who was doing the boy scout and little league things, and that meant taking time to go along with him, much as Doug does, and also mentoring him into hunting and fishing. Meanwhile, technology came into archery and the compound bow entered. When in 1986 we bought the cabin in Huntingdon County, Camp Bucktail, some of the guys were into bow hunting. I ended up buying a PSE compound with nice aluminum arrows. I took a number of deer with that outfit. There sure were major advantages to using a compound. For one thing, the let-off really helped you hold at full draw while you waited for a deer to get into a position for a shot. When bows came out that had really high let-off, that advantage was really great. I remember dimly back then that some did not think compound bows were "real" bows, and they shouldn't be legal for archery deer season. That eventually passed, mostly before I got back into the sport. I retired in 1994 and had a lot of time available for hunting, so I got really serious about archery deer season. As I said in a previous threat, I told the W 1 FE unit I was going to hunt every day that the state of Pennsylvania allowed me to. I darn near accomplished that for several years, and with those dreaded bonus tags showing up, ended up taking as many as three deer in some years, most of them during archery season. In most of the years from the time we bought the cabin until I retired, archery season ended when small game season began, so we didn’t have the rut to hunt. Sorry, but my CRS syndrome kicked in and I can’t remember when archery season became six weeks instead of four. Way back when I was in high school, I had dislocated my right shoulder playing football. I suffered off and on with pain, but was able to keep using a compound bow for quite some time. I remember going to a local orthopedic surgeon in the 1979s. He told me I had a sore shoulder and that there was nothing he could do about it. It finally got to the point, sometime around the time Crawford and I were in the process of buying the current camp, I just coudn’t put up with the pain anymore. My favorite orthopedic surgeon, Doctor Bruno, did some miracle work on it. Afterwards, he told me that there were some things I should not do, drawing a bow being one of them. I wasn’t ready or willing to give up that wonderful time of the year, archery season, so he convinced me to get that horid crossbow permit. I still carry mine in my license holder. I did some research on crossbows, and finally bought a Ten-Point Titan model in 2007. My son-in-law Crawford put it together for me and we figured out how to use it. By the time archery season rolled around that first year in the new camp, I was fairly proficient with it. When the opportunity arose, I got a doe with it the second Saturday of that season. From that point in time onward, I started taking deer with it on a more or less regular basis. Now, keep firmly in mind, that having come up through recurve bows with telephone pole arrows, compound bows with aluminum arrows, and the advent of plastic fletching, and new model broadheads, my current equipment did everything but cook supper and wash dishes. There is no question that shooting a crossbow requires far less practice than does shooting a recurve or compound bow. Of course there is no question that hunting with a compound bow and light weight aluminum arrows was much easier than doing so with a recurve and those telephone poles, but time marched on. Frankly, I didn’t see why all that fuss was made over crossbows. I still limited my shots to 30 yards or less. While it is true that some hunters take longer shots, I do not. Some hunters also take unethical shots (in my opinion) at deer and other game with rifles and shotguns, and those same guys probably launched arrows out of their compound bows at deer fifty or more yards distant. Times change, but not all people do. So, to sum it up, I've been around for 76 years and seen lots of those changes. Just my humble opinion, but there will always be those who think hunting deer should be restricted to the equipment they prefer to use, whether it is recurves, compounds, or rifles. It doesn’t matter much what new innovation comes along, they will oppose it and denigrate those who use it. One has to be like a duck and let the water and insults roll off his back. What would be really nice would be if everyone just went hunting, did it the way they like to do it so long as it was within the law, and let others do the same. There are lots of things we could get together on if we didn’t fight each other tooth and claw over petty things. Maybe that is what we need to do, huh?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 7:18:27 GMT -5
Bingo.👍
Good read, sir.
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Post by ridgecommander on Jan 9, 2019 7:38:03 GMT -5
So, to sum it up, I've been around for 76 years and seen lots of those changes. Just my humble opinion, but there will always be those who think hunting deer should be restricted to the equipment they prefer to use, whether it is recurves, compounds, or rifles. It doesn’t matter much what new innovation comes along, they will oppose it and denigrate those who use it. Some can't help themselves, Mutt. At the same time they are denigrating others for their equipment or tactics, they are utilizing equipment or tactics that they embraced cause it gives them an edge. Most are hypocrites. The point is everyone has their own preferred way to hunt. Never understood why many feel their way is the only right way. I often come to the defense of crossbows and/or their users. Not that I feel personally impacted by insults or attacks, cause I am not. I defend all hunters and all legal methods. Anybody that knows me knows this to be true. Hunters attacking other hunters for hunting legally is a shame, and hunters putting themselves on self imposed pedestals above others is twice as bad. Wouldn't that be nice!
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Post by dennyf on Jan 9, 2019 8:11:26 GMT -5
Yep, time marches on. Just as "we" went from black powder firearms and assorted ignition systems, to cartridges and repeating rifles, so have other changes taken place in how we take game.
Hand writing was on the wall, long before xbows became acceptable implements during archery seasons here. Those that wanted them and the manufacturers, made sure of that happening eventually.
Anyone with a brain knows they're far easier to master than vertical tackle, but we're past that now.
I don't have any interest in owning one, so I don't. If my shoulder cooperates, I take a compound out. It isn't fancy or expensive, like those I see at our club's practice range and sand pit. We've had guys that shot custom compounds capable of taking deer past 50 yards and have done so. We've had a well organized archery contingent within our sportsmen's club for over 40 years, so I've gotten to see whatever improvements have come along in that time frame.
When we started hosting PSAA field championships close to 30 years ago, our folks eventually had a chronograph for checking arrow speeds. Paid for itself quickly, as many wanted to know what their arrow speed was, at a buck a pop. I can recall when breaking the 350 fps barrier @ 10 feet, was a big deal.
One of the best of those boys, now hunts with an xbow. Years ago he killed a big bull elk in Colorado with his custom 80# draw compound, He had a partially disabling stroke a few years ago, so an xbow is all he is capable of using now. I was there with him two years ago when he and his dad were sorting out a new one. After about a half hour of shooting, his dad had just cocked it for him and we heard a hissing noise. He yelled at his dad to put it down and within seconds one limb snapped. Don't recall the brand, but it was the latest/greatest thing at the time. Such is life.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 8:21:30 GMT -5
I don't know the guy to whom you refer, Denny, but my sympathies go out to him. This getting old stuff sure isn't for sissies, is it. No matter how much you resist it, bad stuff eventually happens. Time marches on. confused-smiley-013
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Post by fleroo on Jan 9, 2019 10:43:32 GMT -5
So, it's "archery" at 380 fps, and 470 fps with a fancy x-bow, but at...... 500 ? 600 ? it won't be ?
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Post by dougell on Jan 10, 2019 13:03:59 GMT -5
He's drawing the line at 471 fps.We're not there just yet.
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470 fps.
Jan 10, 2019 13:17:51 GMT -5
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Post by turkeykiller on Jan 10, 2019 13:17:51 GMT -5
The PGC could limit the legal velocity for archery huntin. They already limit the minimum caliber for rifle deer and elk. They could just as easily limit the maximum velocity for archery huntin.
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Post by bushmaster on Jan 10, 2019 13:35:22 GMT -5
The PGC could limit the legal velocity for archery huntin. They already limit the minimum caliber for rifle deer and elk. They could just as easily limit the maximum velocity for archery huntin. Well I'm thinking they only regulate the minimums not the maximums. Archery minimum 35lbs I think. Now if I could only get my hands on a 400# @ 28" longbow I could achieve such speeds!
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470 fps.
Jan 10, 2019 14:39:07 GMT -5
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Post by turkeykiller on Jan 10, 2019 14:39:07 GMT -5
The PGC could limit the legal velocity for archery huntin. They already limit the minimum caliber for rifle deer and elk. They could just as easily limit the maximum velocity for archery huntin. Well I'm thinking they only regulate the minimums not the maximums. Archery minimum 35lbs I think. Now if I could only get my hands on a 400# @ 28" longbow I could achieve such speeds! I agree they currently only regulate minimums now, but could just as easily regulate maximums for archery.
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Post by bushmaster on Jan 10, 2019 15:05:19 GMT -5
Well I'm thinking they only regulate the minimums not the maximums. Archery minimum 35lbs I think. Now if I could only get my hands on a 400# @ 28" longbow I could achieve such speeds! I agree they currently only regulate minimums now, but could just as easily regulate maximums for archery. I'm thinking it might be hard to enforce? Kind of like regulating the velocity of a bullet.
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470 fps.
Jan 10, 2019 15:07:59 GMT -5
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Post by turkeykiller on Jan 10, 2019 15:07:59 GMT -5
I agree they currently only regulate minimums now, but could just as easily regulate maximums for archery. I'm thinking it might be hard to enforce? Kind of like regulating the velocity of a bullet. If I remember correctly, flintlock season was originally limited to round ball and patch. The PGC could come up with a list of accepted crossbows, and if you get caught with one not on the list you get fined. No harder to enforce than the minimum caliber rule or the baitin law. Sure there will be those that will violate the rule, but that happenns with all the rules now.
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Post by bushmaster on Jan 10, 2019 15:20:12 GMT -5
I'm thinking it might be hard to enforce? Kind of like regulating the velocity of a bullet. If I remember correctly, flintlock season was originally limited to round ball and patch. That's all I shoot. I'm a big proponent of "KISS" Keep It Simple Stupid.
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Post by ridgecommander on Jan 10, 2019 15:43:30 GMT -5
So, it's "archery" at 380 fps, and 470 fps with a fancy x-bow, but at...... 500 ? 600 ? it won't be ? I believe there is a line to draw. Right now, success rates for crossbows and compounds are not far apart. Now if speed increases to the point where 100 or further yard shots in hunting situations can become the norm with crossbows, I do believe success rates will really begin to distances themselves from compounds. Once the arch is removed from archery, the game is changed dramatically. I have put some shots across the bow of several manufacturers, as have many other crossbow enthusiasts that chasing speed can be a bad thing for the crossbow movement. Some states are looking at capping speed already, in anticipation of future technology advances.
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Post by ridgecommander on Jan 10, 2019 15:45:56 GMT -5
I'm thinking it might be hard to enforce? Kind of like regulating the velocity of a bullet. It is hard to enforce but that doesn't stop game agencies from implementing restrictions that must be measured in the field. The minimum draw weight is a good example. One would need a bow scale to measure it in the field. A chronograph would be required to measure velocity.
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