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Post by davet on Jun 29, 2015 19:19:17 GMT -5
I usually use RL-22 when loading and shooting the 6.5 Swedish cartridge from my modern action Savage. But I've been fooling with it lately to see if I can improve upon it's accuracy more. So, I picked up a can of IMR-4350 and tried different powder charges and right now have settled on 44.5gr. So, I shot a first round with the Ogive OAL at 2.510 or 30-thous from the lands. However, this time I shot a 6-round group with the OAL at 50-thous from the lands. Here's 2 pics of my results. The first showing the six shots, and the second showing the1-7\8" grouping. Now, this was at 200 yards.   The grouping was at least fairly consistent with no flyers. However, I'm going to set the next group at 60-thous and a follow up group at 80-thous from the lands while keeping the powder charge the same and see how those group. The bullet is the Nosler 123gr. Custom Comp. I'm using this bullet only because I got a 1,000 of 'em at a great buy!! Then again.....it's only a great buy if they shoot well!! So.....I have to keep at it to attempt to try and get it to shoot "more better." My goal is to get 6 shots in 1" at 200 yards. We will see if that's possible.  |
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Post by Dutch on Jun 29, 2015 19:27:17 GMT -5
If that was a 260, it would have been an inch. LOL
Nice shooting.
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Post by davet on Jun 30, 2015 6:50:12 GMT -5
That's likely true!! My groundhog buddy shoots the 260...plus, brass for the 260 can be made from the 308. For the Swede...well....you just gotta buy Swede. *badday*
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Post by bawanajim on Jun 30, 2015 6:53:07 GMT -5
Try some 4831 SC, are you using a magnum primer?
And I think moving closer to the lands would be the direction I would be moving.
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Post by bawanajim on Jun 30, 2015 7:00:56 GMT -5
How about the brass, is it new unfired, or are you using the same 10 cases?
Do you weigh your unprimed cases?
Do you number your cases as to know which ones lead to flyers?
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Post by davet on Jun 30, 2015 9:54:35 GMT -5
I am using the same cases. I also anneal 'em between the shots. No heavy "hot red" but 'nuff to keep 'em good. The Swede, if you don't watch, will build up a "ring" inside the neck. This "ring" will need removed with a neck reamer available from Forster. MidwayUSA link to product This will cut the build up of the inside rim right out so that neck tension will be consistent across the neck. I measure all of my case neck wall sizes for thickness, and those that are thicker get cut so that all are the same. Of course, all are trimed to the same length, and all are neck sized with a completion bushing neck die. Then I check each one for concentricity. The one's that are more than 3-thousands out of concentricity are shot....but not in the groupings used for testing purposes. I do not weigh each case. As for "flyers" if you could tell me which one in that six shot group is a flyer, I'd gladly pull the brass!! BTW, I only use Norma or Lapua brass, and when I shoot for groups, I keep the Norma and Lapua separate. Using any other brass is useless. Loading to get 2700 or better FPS with RP and the best you will get is 4 loads from that junk brass. |
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Post by bawanajim on Jun 30, 2015 10:10:53 GMT -5
I use a sharpie to number cases, if you are reaming, annealing or in any way changing the cases from load to load you will be chasing your tail for a long time.
What I mean by flyers would be if the fist and second shots were the ones that were measured then they are two worst in that set.
The case is where your groups are easiest tightened.
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Post by dennyf on Jun 30, 2015 16:04:13 GMT -5
Back in the 80s a buddy acquired a new M70 in 6.5 Swede, think it was a featherweight?
His FIL had been killing deer/bear with that cartridge for years, so my bud started out using the old boy's load data. He had several issues and brought it over for me to sort out. One issue being cratered primers and hard extraction.
Looked up the load in two manuals and it was a few grains beyond max in both, for that powder/bullet combo. Turned out his FIL had a sporterized Swedish Mauser and had "gotten away" nicely with that load for years - but it was a no-go in the new M70.
One of the ol' boys at our club had several Swedish Mausers, all in original condition.
Most were very accurate from the bench. He didn't hunt, just loaded and shot frequently. One of those Mausers was "dedicated" to shooting his own cast bullets w/gas checks and was a tack driver. Had I been on my toes, would've checked with his widder to see if I could've gotten one after he passed away. By the time I got around to it, they were all gone.
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Post by davet on Jul 1, 2015 7:03:31 GMT -5
I use a sharpie to number cases, if you are reaming, annealing or in any way changing the cases from load to load you will be chasing your tail for a long time. What I mean by flyers would be if the fist and second shots were the ones that were measured then they are two worst in that set. The case is where your groups are easiest tightened. Jim, I'm not ignoring your advice on this matter at all. Right now I'm only working with a dozen cases. I've already "culled" out the cases that were ten-thous shorter than where I wanted 'em to be, so the rest are all the same. The neck wall thickness are all the same .0015. I weighed all of these (I did this last night....so I can't recall the exact weight) and I believe they were 178gr empty with no primer. Now, some were 177.12 or 177.XX (closer to 178 even, but none were more than 1 grain away. Now, on this next "go around" I will number the brass and see how it goes. I'll keep you posted. Thanks. |
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Post by bawanajim on Jul 1, 2015 7:24:31 GMT -5
When I started working on real accuracy I spent a lot of time on powders and weighing them exactly the same. But your a numbers guy and can figure what a minute % of the total volume a tenth or two makes on a 50 grain load.
The quality of brass today is far better than brass of olden days, the material might not be but consistency surely is.
The important part being the constant case capacity, accuracy comes from consistency.
I set up a cnc lathe for a bench rest shooter so he could make his own cases.
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Post by davet on Jul 1, 2015 7:39:02 GMT -5
Thanks Jim. I'm not looking to be a bench rest shooter.....I just like to squeeze all I can because I can. Fun stuff to work with.
Dave
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Post by bawanajim on Jul 1, 2015 7:48:45 GMT -5
Its addicting as hell,if you ever see one of the Winchester Model 70 with a Boss on it, for under $1500:00 buy it.
They are butt ugly but are real shooters, I have two a super grade, in 7 MM Remington mag and a standard grade in 264 win mag, the 264 will stay under an inch at 300 yards, at 100 yards they both shoot one ragged hole.
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Post by davet on Jul 1, 2015 9:58:54 GMT -5
My nephew purchased one. But honestly Jim, you can do better with just buying a regular Savage and bedding the receiver and making sure the barrel and the safety tang is free floating. I purchased a Savage Carbine in .223 about three years ago when Savage came out with the accustock. The accustock eliminated the need for bedding and I have to say it works. As long as I do my part with the brass, a 68gr. Hornay bullet over the right load of Varget will give me one ragged hole at 100 yards. This is my "go to" groundhog gun. As for making your own brass on a CNC machine....wouldn't it be less costly to just always load with new Lapua or Norma brass?  ? |
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Post by bawanajim on Jul 1, 2015 11:49:19 GMT -5
You can take a tax deduction and deprecate the machine over time, saving you money ! Being an accountant you should know that sort of stuff.  Truth is he makes the brass to "fit" his chamber, never has to resize it, and each piece is perfect, he controls the inside diameter so as to insure his power charge fills 98-99 % of the case volume insuring a constant ignition and burn rate. And he sells custom made cases to those who can afford them. |
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Post by davet on Jul 2, 2015 12:10:26 GMT -5
Today.....I shot an 8 round group at 200 yards. The only difference was I seated the bullets at 80-thousands from the lands instead of 50 thousands from the lands. The group "tightened up" from 1-7/8" to 1-3/4". Again, a 200 yard grouping. Here's the pics:   I still have some "wiggle room" with the powder charge. Another grain until I get to the book full max. I've gone over the recommended max charge in the past with other powders. Not much....maybe 1.5gr. while looking for pressure signs and running the round over a chronograph. I always look for increased velocity when adding more powder. If you add more powder and don't get a velocity increase....then all your doing is increasing pressure. Still.....the recipe is consistent. I'm pretty certain if I went to another bullet I could do better.....but as I said...I think I have 800 of these bullets left. And if this is the best I can get.....I'll just fling 'em at the G-hogs until I run out. horse2 |
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Post by bawanajim on Jul 2, 2015 16:41:11 GMT -5
That 5 shot group is easy an inch, thats not bad. Likely good enough, unless you're shoots really small wood chucks. |
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Post by dennyf on Jul 10, 2015 8:01:56 GMT -5
They get smaller, the farther away they are.  |
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Post by davet on Jul 10, 2015 8:16:57 GMT -5
Well.....I loaded up 8 more. 4 with .5gr more and another at the max. I'll shoot 'em when I feel like going to the range & "slogging" my cart out. Actually, it would be easier with a swamp boat. But...these groups are acceptable for using the rest of 'em for 'hog hunting. But those long shots will be really tough to connect. I mean the 500 and longer.
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Post by Dutch on Jul 10, 2015 19:17:17 GMT -5
Very nice Dave. Looks like you have a shooter.
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Post by davet on Jul 13, 2015 11:57:29 GMT -5
I think I may have "the final load" worked up for the Nosler 123gr Custom Comp bullet using IMR4350 Powder. Now.....on my previous groups I had "settled" on using 44.5gr. of IMR 4350 for some reason. I looked at my notes and the only reason I can determine is that's the best grouping I got when the bullet was seated at 30-Tho from the lands. But...the groups tightened up when seated (same powder charge of 44.5) at 50-Tho and even tighter when seated at 80-Tho (further) from the lands. So....I figured I would bump up the charge from 44.5 to 45.0, and then try 45.5 just for "kicks". So, here was the not so outstanding results of going to 45.0gr. and keeping the OAL set at 80-Tho. Yes, still 1-3/4" at 200 yards, but nothing to get excited about:  But like any load workup....it's always something what .5gr of powder will do. Here's what happen when I went to the max charge of 45.5 and kept the OAL at 80-Tho:  So.....going to a 200 yard group of just a smidge over 1" is very much acceptable......especially with a big pile of bullets left!!! So.....hog's way out there.....look out!!! |
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freezer
Junior Member
There's no place like home
Posts: 85
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Post by freezer on Jul 27, 2015 16:33:48 GMT -5
Wow! Not only is that good reloading but its great shooting! I've been a hand loader for over 20 years. I've really enjoyed this post. For the sake of the internet you should never use magnum primers if the manual doesn't call for them. They could cause a pressure spike
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Post by davet on Jul 28, 2015 17:19:14 GMT -5
Wow! Not only is that good reloading but its great shooting! I've been a hand loader for over 20 years. I've really enjoyed this post. For the sake of the internet you should never use magnum primers if the manual doesn't call for them. They could cause a pressure spike Freezer, I agree with you on the use of magnum primers. This current load I'm using CCI non-magnum primers. In fact, I can't think of any load for any caliber that I load for where I use a magnum primer. .17 Hornet .223 Rem .357 Magnum .44 Magnum 6.5 X 55--Modern action 6.5 X 55--1915 Swedish Mauser 45-70 Government .45 ACP I think that's all I load for now. I got rid of the .380 and the 7-30 Waters plus the 22-250 and the 220 Swift along with the .243. The 7-30 Waters was laser wicket accurate, but I just "got out" of the T\C Contender "stuff". I still have a Encore frame for my 12ga. turkey shotgun and my wicket accurate in-line. I sold a .243 pro-hunter barrel that I still regret. That was one accurate cartridge out of that barrel. Dumb.....dumb....dumb. Oh well. |
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freezer
Junior Member
There's no place like home
Posts: 85
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Post by freezer on Jul 28, 2015 18:09:42 GMT -5
I've reloaded for over 20 calibers through the years, I'm down to six. Since I've moved home I don't have space for all the guns I used to have. I also loaded for my BIL. I appreciate the fact you make a difference between the older and new 6.5 Swed. Though it's been a while since I loaded 357 and 44 mag, I have a lot, I have used mag primers in them for full house mag loads in the past. The only one I may regret selling was a Savage 24 22mag/410. I really like this site and look forward to reading more good posts.
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Post by bawanajim on Jul 28, 2015 21:22:58 GMT -5
There's twenty grains of powder difference in the "swede" and the 264 win mag, with the same bullet, the pressure spike comes when you try to light 60 plus grains of powder with a standard primer.
The burn rate of 40 plus grains of powder does not require a magnum primer but you likely will get better accuracy with one!
I'm not saying I would use a Federal 215 in the "swede" but I would try a CCI 350 large rifle with out hesitation.
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