45-70, 405gr Lead Flat Point loads

[davet]

I don't cast my own as it just gets too hot for me to do that. So, I buy these Cast Performance 405gr. bullets with a gas check and they have always shot well from my Marlin 1895XLR. Now, My load is using Varget powder, but I will warn you that I use 2gr. over the recommended maximum. When I use the maximum the rifle simply will not give me these groups. Add two more grains of powder.....and BINGO!! we get groups like this:



Now, the small holes are from a .223 and the two on the right are pre scope adjustments, but the groups are post scope adjustments. And since my Leupold scope has a BDC reticle in it, I simply used the "next" one down to put one right in the bullseye at 100 yards instead of messing with the scope adjustment. Hey, it just seemed easy to me to do that.


Here is the 200 yard picture:


I took two shots and allowed for what my ballistic software told me would be an 18" drop from 100 to 200 yards. My first shot was lower and a little right, so I just raised the BDC up a tad for my second shot and it was well in MOD (Minuet of Deer). Actually, both were in MOD. I think I get as much enjoyment out of shooting at the range as I do hunting. I guess it's just the kid in me!!!

[zimmerstutzen]

I haven't shot smokeless in a 45-70 in years. That looks pretty good. What alloy are the bullets? I understand the Marlin rifling requires a pretty hard cast bullet.


I have the mold for the 405FN non-checked bullets but never could get them to group decently. The old 457125 (500 grain round nose)in pure lead is my "go to" for the 1884 trapdoor. But with a single shot, I can load the bullets out of the case a bit, so closing the breech on the trapdoor pushes the nose into the rifling. That made a big difference in group size.

[davet]

Zim,

I would NOT (and you probably already know this....but other newbie trapdoor loaders may not) use this load in any other rifle but a modern day Marlin or Ruger. I use to have some saved bookmarks on Cast Performance Bullet data, but now I can't seem to find the hardness data on it. There's a little on the Graft site link but all they really say is that Cast Performance heat treats the bullets. I may be thinking I read about them in a past edition of Handloader Magazine.

But you are right in that this bullet is very hard. I can't tell you if a softer bullet will or will not work in a Marlin or not. The Cast Performance has been the only lead bullet I've shot in mine. Once I find one that works, I just stick with it. This load has quite a punch to it. It's much easier to shoot off hand than from a bench. When I do shoot it from a bench (to get these groups) I have to roll my right thumb to the right part of the stock or it will "punch" me in the nose on recoil. Man....I hate when that happens!!! Usually I get reminded of that on the first shot!!!

Dave

[zimmerstutzen]

I wouldn't shoot any smokeless in a trapdoor ever. And hard bullets with gas checks would just scrape out the mild steel rifling anyway.

It is nice when your load and bullet cut such neat holes in the paper.

If you were to start shooting some black powder loads, maybe you could shoot the bucket at the Quigley next June

www.quigleymatch.com/

[davet]

Oct 10, 2014 11:06:28 GMT -5 zimmerstutzen said:

It is nice when your load and bullet cut such neat holes in the paper.

If you were to start shooting some black powder loads, maybe you could shoot the bucket at the Quigley next June

Yes.....the nice round cut hole tells me the bullet is flying nice and true.

I've read about the Quigley match. I don't believe I could handle this type of event. If you look at all of the pictures of the shoot, they are all out in the sun with no trees around (Yes, I realize that's Montana) for any shade. The only shade provided is the tents that are set up. The sun kills me. It just sucks the life right out of me. Unless the air temperature is in the low 40's or lower, then I can "put up" with the sun. But on a sunny day in the 50's or 60's and I have no shade....I'm not gonna work very well.

Maybe some year they will do this with snow??

[winchesterbob]

5744 powder is a great alternative to black powder with cast bullets at the lower end of the velocity spectrum.