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Post by Dutch on Apr 11, 2023 14:37:36 GMT -5
Legally purchased days before. Suicidal texts, etc. Red flags?  |
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Post by rusty on Apr 12, 2023 11:06:04 GMT -5
There is probably nothing that will solve the problem here, but we can reduce the number of dead, and likely the number of incidences, by make some weapons much harder to get.
If responsible gun owners feel they must have some types of guns, and have to jump through more hoops and wait longer to get them, it's a small price to pay.
Since we have the rights that are protected under the 2nd amend., we should all also have a government that has the wisdom to make laws that protect the citizens from those who will take advantage of those rights to commit the mass shootings that have become so very common here.
I ended my membership with the NRA way back when they came out with their "Jack-booted government thugs" label for ATF agents doing their jobs. If they made a sincere effort to work with officials to address the role of some guns in these mass killings I would certainly view the leadership differently.
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Post by dougl on Apr 12, 2023 11:47:13 GMT -5
A suicidal loon that wanted to do mass carnage can easily do so with a pump shotgun,loaded with buckshot and a couple 9mm pistols.The type of weapon has zero to do with any of this.There are far more people killed every year with blunt force objects and knives than are killed with all rifles combined and that's an FBI statistic.We have a lot of problems in this country with people and we can go on for days on why.Limiting weapons won't do a thing.
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Post by Loggy on Apr 12, 2023 12:22:18 GMT -5
A suicidal loon that wanted to do mass carnage can easily do so with a pump shotgun,loaded with buckshot and a couple 9mm pistols.The type of weapon has zero to do with any of this.There are far more people killed every year with blunt force objects and knives than are killed with all rifles combined and that's an FBI statistic.We have a lot of problems in this country with people and we can go on for days on why.Limiting weapons won't do a thing. How about the 2017 Las Vegas mass killer who from a 32nd floor hotel window killed 60 and wounded over 500 at 200-300 yards??? Largest mass killing in US History!! Yep….just a pump shotgun and couple pistols. The shotgun having the same massive kill potential argument is getting a lil old. Really surprised that anyone with even minimal firearms/ballistics knowlege even mentions this? |
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Post by stroupy on Apr 12, 2023 17:22:46 GMT -5
What happened to the pumps are just as fast argument?
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Post by rusty on Apr 12, 2023 17:45:55 GMT -5
Nobody could shoot 30 rounds with a pump as fast or as accurately as a semi.
The latest wacko bought his AR15 6 days before he used it to kill those people and ambush the police who responded to the scene. Does anyone who knows anything about guns really believe the choice of these guns is simply a coincidence? These guns a designed to do exactly what the mass murderers are using them for. Would anyone want our men in combat to be using a pump, bolt, lever, our any shotgun during a firefight?
Pretending that the style of gun has nothing to do with the number killed in these murders is less than honest.
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Post by Dutch on Apr 12, 2023 18:49:35 GMT -5
What happened to the pumps are just as fast argument? Let's get rid of the Amish Machine Guns! 🙂 |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2023 18:54:55 GMT -5
If pumps are just as capable maybe we should look at pumps too. But I don't think many pumps take detachable mags which are a necessary component for mass shooters
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Post by stroupy on Apr 12, 2023 20:51:13 GMT -5
Having an uncle inlaw who is clinically schizophrenic, and bi-polar the mental health help in this country is a joke its nearly impossible to get them committed and having grandparents inlaws making excuses for him because junior doesn't have issues tells me this issue is way too complicated to fix. Just my opinion.
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Post by bud16057 on Apr 13, 2023 5:00:50 GMT -5
We have mental illness issues, right? Well, don't other countries, where mass killings DON'T occur, have the same? What's the difference? The availability of the gun. Am I calling for a ban? No. But, it really is about availability. How we cut availability is above my intelligence and pay grade. I like having an AR. I don't NEED an AR. It's easier to blame guns than it is to solve the mental health issues. With the privacy regs that exist, seems like it keeps people that should be reported from being reported. Why didn't we have mass shootings 30-40 yrs ago? Just look at the number of institutions that have been closed in that time period and I think the answer is pretty clear. |
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Post by ridgecommander on Apr 13, 2023 6:44:05 GMT -5
It's easier to blame guns than it is to solve the mental health issues. The left blames the guns. The right blames mental health. The fringes of both sides are controlling the discussion which only leads to one place. More innocents dying as we sit on our hands and play the blame game. Bi-partisanship is gone. Civil and sometimes challenging discussions are gone. People willing to talk to each other instead of at each other are few and far between. I, for one, am not willing to sit and watch as it gets worse. I guess many are................... |
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Post by rusty on Apr 13, 2023 7:16:32 GMT -5
We have mental illness issues, right? Well, don't other countries, where mass killings DON'T occur, have the same? What's the difference? The availability of the gun. Am I calling for a ban? No. But, it really is about availability. How we cut availability is above my intelligence and pay grade. I like having an AR. I don't NEED an AR. It's easier to blame guns than it is to solve the mental health issues. With the privacy regs that exist, seems like it keeps people that should be reported from being reported. Why didn't we have mass shootings 30-40 yrs ago? Just look at the number of institutions that have been closed in that time period and I think the answer is pretty clear. You're 100% correct, more people, more mental health issues, fewer treatment facilities, more mentally ill people in the general public. That is all the more reason we need tighter control on the weapons these mentally ill people have access to. Ridge, what are some of your ideas to keep guns out of the wrong hands? Mental health issues have been neglected for decades. I'd guess insurance companies. and those of us who pay for insurance coverage, are concerned with what increased treatment will cost all of us. The love of money and guns. and politicians too cowardly to do anything that could effect costs and their standing with the NRA make it a pretty safe bet that near nothing will be done any time soon. |
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Post by dougl on Apr 13, 2023 8:32:17 GMT -5
A suicidal loon that wanted to do mass carnage can easily do so with a pump shotgun,loaded with buckshot and a couple 9mm pistols.The type of weapon has zero to do with any of this.There are far more people killed every year with blunt force objects and knives than are killed with all rifles combined and that's an FBI statistic.We have a lot of problems in this country with people and we can go on for days on why.Limiting weapons won't do a thing. How about the 2017 Las Vegas mass killer who from a 32nd floor hotel window killed 60 and wounded over 500 at 200-300 yards??? Largest mass killing in US History!! Yep….just a pump shotgun and couple pistols. The shotgun having the same massive kill potential argument is getting a lil old. Really surprised that anyone with even minimal firearms/ballistics knowlege even mentions this? How bout the 911 hijackers and the Boston Bombers?They didn't need AR's to reak havoc. |
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Post by ridgecommander on Apr 13, 2023 9:20:47 GMT -5
How bout the 911 hijackers and the Boston Bombers?They didn't need AR's to reak havoc. And both of those were addressed with actions. When was the last box cutter hi jacking in this country? I also don't seem to recall rampant marathon bombings or bombings at other large gatherings. A entire govt agency was created to address better airline security and most large gatherings now have enhanced security as well. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2023 9:21:28 GMT -5
When I think about the grandkids going off to public school somehow the 9/11 hijackers aren't what I worry about. I worry about d-bags with AR-15s
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Post by ridgecommander on Apr 13, 2023 9:31:57 GMT -5
Ridge, what are some of your ideas to keep guns out of the wrong hands? I would like to see universal background checks. I would like to see actual enforcement of criminal sentences. I would like to see more accountability for parents, spouses, others that do not report concerning behaviors of loved ones if those loved ones go on to commit gun violence. I would like to see accountability for those that do not report felons in possession of guns. I would like to see a overhaul of the background check system to better address the mental health component. I would like to see enhanced background checks on certain firearms/accessories that seem to have become the preferred choice of those intent on unlawful behavior. I would like to see a waiting period for certain firearms/accessories. None of the above infringes of the rights of law abiding citizens to own their weapon of choice for sporting, defense or hunting purposes. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2023 9:44:13 GMT -5
I would like to see assault weapon ban and confiscation. Fed up with gun culture forcing us to remain a third world country where you can't go to the movie theater, mall, bank, or trust to send the kids to school
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Post by rusty on Apr 13, 2023 10:05:32 GMT -5
Ridge, what are some of your ideas to keep guns out of the wrong hands? I would like to see universal background checks. I would like to see actual enforcement of criminal sentences. I would like to see more accountability for parents, spouses, others that do not report concerning behaviors of loved ones if those loved ones go on to commit gun violence. I would like to see accountability for those that do not report felons in possession of guns. I would like to see a overhaul of the background check system to better address the mental health component. I would like to see enhanced background checks on certain firearms/accessories that seem to have become the preferred choice of those intent on unlawful behavior. I would like to see a waiting period for certain firearms/accessories. None of the above infringes of the rights of law abiding citizens to own their weapon of choice for sporting, defense or hunting purposes. I could have written nearly the same reply, Ridge. I would add that strong consideration be given to ending the sale of "assault" type rifles and large capacity mags. We had the ban for ten years. If the NrA had not insisted there be a sunset part add to the bill I believe many victims(no, not all)of mass murders would be alive today. |
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Post by ridgecommander on Apr 13, 2023 10:10:30 GMT -5
I oppose the banning of certain weapons and/or accessories. That is the easy answer because no one wants to have the tough conversation to address all that is wrong with the gun culture, the criminal justice system, and the general degridation of society.
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Post by rusty on Apr 13, 2023 10:56:52 GMT -5
You don't think banning the gun is a tough conversation? Right now it is a very tough issue, though more Americans voters are starting to demand it.
Do you think raising taxes to provide better mental healthcare, including repopulating mental hospitals and institutions, would not be a tough sell? There would likely be a
some trade off in cost if the mentally ill living in our prisons and on our streets are instead housed where they may get some help, but it still would not be cheap.
I don't think any reasonable person thinks any part of the problem will not be tough. If there were easy solutions, we be seeing fewer of these killings. We can bet that both parties look more to using these tragedies as another tool to divide us for political gain than doing any of the tough work.
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Post by ridgecommander on Apr 13, 2023 11:22:22 GMT -5
You don't think banning the gun is a tough conversation? Compared to everything else that is a contributing factor, nope......... |
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Post by dougl on Apr 13, 2023 12:40:22 GMT -5
I would like to see assault weapon ban and confiscation. Fed up with gun culture forcing us to remain a third world country where you can't go to the movie theater, mall, bank, or trust to send the kids to school I'm not afraid to go anywhere but I rarely venture far from home.The last shooting around here that I can remember was a meth head who shot a state trooper through a door with a 30/30 as he was attempting to serve a warrant.I don't own an AR,have no real desire to own but but the majority of people who I know locally have them.I was never afraid to send my kids to school either.A shooter isn't getting intto one of our schools.The solution to the school shooting is really pretty easy.We live in a sick,demented society.Take away the AR's and problem will continue to persist.AR's are little tiny fraction of gun violence. |
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Post by rusty on Apr 13, 2023 15:18:28 GMT -5
The targeted shootings and robberies that result in gun deaths are not the murders that are being addressed when there is discussion of ars. It's the mass killings and the role rapid fire rifles that are designed for creating mass casualties as quickly as possible play in making it the chosen weapon for taking out as many children, shoppers, concert attendees, bank employees.....as possible before the shooter himself is taken out. These guns a far too easy to get into the wrong hands.
There will be more of these shooting before long. Most, if not all will be done with ars types guns. It may be the case that some other style of gun is used. Does anyone who knows guns not believe the number of dead will almost certainly be lower if something other than an assault rifle is used?
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Post by stroupy on Apr 13, 2023 16:00:37 GMT -5
The media runs a narrative everyone gets all up in arms about it and then we have the we need to do something people. They take ar's then it's the 06 with a 10 round magazine. Background checks do nothing for people with no background to look up. Red flag laws will be weaponized to confiscate peoples firearms. People get upset if you call a biological boy a boy theses days. The mental healthy system in this country is a joke. Don't blame me for that.
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Post by Dutch on Apr 13, 2023 16:22:49 GMT -5
My grandfather, back in the 70s, shot at a kid on a motorcycle crossing his driveway. The police called my aunt, and my aunt and brother, took his guns. That was after the fact.
My grandfather had a mean streak in him, so, maybe that's mental?
That kid is now the head of the worlds largest live events sound operation, located here in town.
I'd support Red Flag. Better to take them, then sort it out.
I know Mike also has a story to tell, and I know where he's coming from.
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