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Post by davet on Aug 9, 2020 6:18:50 GMT -5
I went to the range to chronograph my 3 different flintlock firearms. One is a Leman .54 cal with a Green Mt. barrel, then a T\C .50 caliber with a Green Mt replacement barrel and the third, my .50 caliber flintlock pistol with a 12" DeHass barrel. (And then I had a lot of cleaning to do!!) All numbers were at 12 feet from the bench, and all were 5 shot averages.
50 Caliber pistol:
Velocity (average) of Hornady Pa. Conical 240gr. 939-fps
Load of 50gr. GOEX FFF
50 Caliber T\C rifle:
Velocity (average) of Hornady Pa. Conical 240gr. 1,950-fps
Load of 100gr. GOEX FF
50 Caliber T\C rifle:
Velocity (average) of Hornady PRB 180gr. 2,130-fps
Load of 100gr. GOEX FF
54 Caliber Leman rife:
Velocity (average) of Hornady PRB 240gr. 1,709-fps
Load of 110gr. GOEX FF
A few points of interest to note: I'm using BC's for the 50 cal PRB and Pa Conical of .070 and for the 54 cal I'm using .075. The BC's for the RB's come from Lyman....but I cannot find the BC's for the Hornady Pa Conical so I left the BC's for those at .070.
Even with the higher MV 50 cal PRB (2,130) vs the 50 cal Hornady Pa Conical MV (1,950) The Pa Conical shows higher downrange energy with slower velocities. (50 yard velocity 1633 vs 1486. Energy 1,066 vs 1,177)
The 50 caliber shows higher downrange energy when compared to the 54 caliber.....but they are both shooting the same weight projectile and the 54 cal is slower out of the gate.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2020 8:19:04 GMT -5
Interesting results davet! I hunted for a few years with the Lee Mold 250gr in 50 cal with unbelievable luck. We called them "little bullets", but they are essentially the same as the Pa Conical you spoke of. I used only 80 grs of FFG, got target accuracy, and a dead in the shoulder hit out to 75 yds most often dropped a deer dead in it's tracks.
When I got my Traditions 50 cal flintlock pistol I felt that the little bullet might be a good match. With 45grs of FFFG it was more than accurate enough for deer. On the first trip to the farm in the after Christmas season, and carrying the pistol in a belt holster I heard something drop. The little bullet fell out of the barrel while it was facing down in the open bottom holster. I ended up switching to a patched ball after that to solve the problem. Fluke? Don't know, but I thought you might like to check your pistol, because if it stops halfway down the barrel it could get ugly.
For obvious reasons I now only use patched ball in all mt flintlocks, 50 & 54 calibers, and the deer end up just as dead.
As a direct result of your chronograph information I will be trying a 100gr charge in my old entry level flintlock, a Traditions Pa Pellet, which allows up to a 150gr FFG charge. Thanks for your post.
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Post by davet on Aug 10, 2020 10:58:39 GMT -5
Web, I don’t use any Traditions projectiles. I shoot the Hornady Pa. Conical in the 50 cal. They don’t make them for the 54 cal.
As you stated about the Conical moving in the barrel when you load it....believe me with how easy the Conical slides down the barrel I thought the same. But after many years of checking the seating when the Conical is loaded at the truck, and I checked again & again when I got to my spot...not one time in either pistol or rifle did it move from the initial seating.
BTW, the pistol “rides” muzzle down in my cart and is bounced around far more than it would on a person walking. Still....never once did it move. I’m very conservative about my flintlocks & check em all the time when in the field or at the range.
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Post by Dutch on Aug 10, 2020 16:08:21 GMT -5
I use, or did, the Hornady Great Plains bullet. 385 grains. And I think 80 grains of 2F. Bet they ain't setting no fps records. I intend to hunt the late season this year with the Hawken. Took the crossbow out last year. I hate the crossbow, just hate the damned thing
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 5:17:12 GMT -5
Web, I don’t use any Traditions projectiles. I shoot the Hornady Pa. Conical in the 50 cal. They don’t make them for the 54 cal. As you stated about the Conical moving in the barrel when you load it....believe me with how easy the Conical slides down the barrel I thought the same. But after many years of checking the seating when the Conical is loaded at the truck, and I checked again & again when I got to my spot...not one time in either pistol or rifle did it move from the initial seating. BTW, the pistol “rides” muzzle down in my cart and is bounced around far more than it would on a person walking. Still....never once did it move. I’m very conservative about my flintlocks & check em all the time when in the field or at the range davet, The projectile I referenced as the "little bullet" is not a Traditions bullet, but an REAL 250gr from a Lee mould. In itself, it is of no consequence, but I thought you would be interested that the Lee REAL has a version available for the 54 caliber also. Just one more option that should work well with a slower round ball twist. I mentioned the pistol because it walked off the charge in that gun, and like you, I check bullet seating with a marked ramrod periodically while hunting, and the pistol was the only gun that the projectile walked. The patched ball never has that problem, so I never investigated further. The point is it isn't likely a fault of the bullet, rather more likely the fault of the bore and the very slick lube. |
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Post by davet on Aug 11, 2020 6:13:24 GMT -5
davet, The projectile I referenced as the "little bullet" is not a Traditions bullet, but an REAL 250gr from a Lee mould. In itself, it is of no consequence, but I thought you would be interested that the Lee REAL has a version available for the 54 caliber also. Just one more option that should work well with a slower round ball twist. I mentioned the pistol because it walked off the charge in that gun, and like you, I check bullet seating with a marked ramrod periodically while hunting, and the pistol was the only gun that the projectile walked. The patched ball never has that problem, so I never investigated further. The point is it isn't likely a fault of the bullet, rather more likely the fault of the bore and the very slick lube. If you have an inclination, try the .50 caliber Hornady Pa. Conical or the .50 cal "Buffalo Ballett" conicals. Actually, they just re-started the Buffalo Ballett's manufacturing from what I understand. The Buffalo version I prefer as they use a dry lube. The Hornady's use a "grease type" of lube. The first thing I do with the Hornady's is take out all of the conicals from the box and using just a dry rag I do a quick wipe off all the "goop" and put 'em back in the plastic. FWIW |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 7:14:45 GMT -5
If you have an inclination, try the .50 caliber Hornady Pa. Conical or the .50 cal "Buffalo Ballett" conicals. Actually, they just re-started the Buffalo Ballett's manufacturing from what I understand. The Buffalo version I prefer as they use a dry lube. The Hornady's use a "grease type" of lube. The first thing I do with the Hornady's is take out all of the conicals from the box and using just a dry rag I do a quick wipe off all the "goop" and put 'em back in the plastic. FWIW Maybe that's where the problem is with my flint pistol letting the REAL walk off the charge. I pan lube the bullets with Natural Lube Bore Butter, and a friend claimed T/C replaced a barrel on one of his caplocks years ago when the bullet, (Maxiball factory lubed), moved off the charge regularly. something he attributed to the lube. I'll try firing a few with no lube at all, after walking around with the pistol in it's holster for awhile. Good idea, davet. I remember using a 25% beeswax/75% Borebutter lube with the REAL and my rifles lots of years ago, no problem then. I really hope the Ballett makes it back onto the market. You, me, and probably hundreds of others would be happy about that happening. That was a great performing bullet, and the REAL was my attempt at "rolling my own". |
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