Post by melody on Feb 19, 2013 22:11:45 GMT -5
House Game & Fisheries Committee
2/19/13, 1:00 p.m., Room 60, East Wing
By Jeff Cox, PLS
The committee conducted an informational meeting on the Pennsylvania Fish & Boat Commission’s 2012 Annual Report.
John Arway, Executive Director, Pennsylvania Fish & Boat Commission (PFBC), emphasized to the committee members that “one of the agency’s top goals it to identify alternative funding sources in order to sustain the agency.” He said,“Although the Commission is an independent administrative agency of state government and we often advocate the use pay, user benefit model, we are not immune from the debt challenges that lie ahead of us.”
According to Arway, “All state agencies have been told that we should prepare to absorb increases in employee pension and medical costs in the near future.” He cautioned, “Combine these costs with increases in employees wages and salaries, rising operating costs, and a flat or declining customer base, and we could have our own fiscal cliff to contend with if we don’t immediately live up to our fiduciary responsibilities.” Arway explained that the PFBC must reallocate more than $9 million over the next four years and every year thereafter to cover the projected costs. He further explained that approximately $6.7 million is needed for future employee healthcare and retirement benefits and $2.3 million for infrastructure needs including maintenance and repairs at hatcheries and other facilities and boating access areas. He added, “Therefore, staff and I worked on a Spending Reallocation Plan to determine what programs need to be cut to make up the $9 million we need annually to honor our obligations and to pay new bills that will come due by 2016.”
Arway outlined some of the steps being taken by the PFBC to reduce costs. He explained that the agency took the first steps in January by announcing that two hatcheries would be closed by the end of 2014.
Arway said the closing of the fish hatcheries in Bellefonte, Centre County, and Oswayo, Potter County, will result in annual savings of approximately $2 million. He explained that Oswayo “is the most costly per adult trout and is the least efficient” and “Bellefonte has the highest expenditures of all hatcheries.” Arway told the committee members the closures will involve jobs for 18 employees and a loss of 750,000 catchable trout. He added, “It is important to note that stocking will continue in the counties surrounding and previously stocked by these two hatcheries.” Arway noted that beginning last year the PBFC has started to implement
stocking changes across the commonwealth as part of a comprehensive plan to improve the efficiency and reduce the costs of its stocked trout program. He said, “For anglers, the changes mean some streams will receive fewer trout and others will be dropped from the stocking lists. These will be ones that have low angler use or have residency problems with trout.”
Arway also announced the agency has made the decision not to run a new Waterways Conservation Officer (WCO) class because the agency cannot afford to fill vacant WCO positions. He told lawmakers, “These cuts amount to about $3 million of the $9 million we need to find. The other $6 million will need to come from the rest of the agency’s operations, and all options for reducing spending are on the table.”
Another subject raised by Arway during his testimony was the ongoing decline of the smallmouth bass in the Susquehanna River. He said, “Throughout 2012, the commission publicly made the case that the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) needs to acknowledge the facts and add the river to the federal list of impaired waters.” Arway argued, “Adding the Susquehanna River to the list as a ‘high priority’ impaired water would trigger a two-year timeline under federal Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) regulations for DEP to develop a comprehensive plan to clean up the river.” He noted, “Sadly, the DEP did not list the Susquehanna River as an impaired waterway in its January report.” Arway explained that the plan does not become final until approved by the EPA so the PFBC has been asking members of Congress within the Susquehanna River watershed to contact the EPA and “demand that a plan is put in place to fix the Susquehanna River.”
Arway concluded his testimony by outlining some of the various options the PBFC is examining as ways to raise revenue.
He advocated for a consumptive use and degradation of water fee as “one of the most sustainable sources of long-term funding with the revenue being reinvested in conservation programs like those of the PBFC.” Arway also suggested the possibility of the PBFC receiving funding from any proposal to uncap the oil company franchise tax.
Chairman Causer noted that in the Annual Report the expenditures listed are for a period of 18 months and the revenues are for a period twelve months. Arway responded that it was a “mistake” and that the expenditure chart should have gone to June 30, 2012 instead of December 31, 2012 as listed in the report. Chairman Causer wanted to know how much money is in the reserve fund. According to Arway, there is $24.4 million in the reserve for the Fish Fund and $20.4 million in reserve for the Boat Fund for a total $44.8 million.
Chairman Causer asked if that equals one year of revenue. Arway explained that the PFBC is about halfway through its fiscal year and noted that their revenue does not come in until March and April so the
agency tries to keep the reserve so the agency has one year’s budget in reserve.
Chairman Causer expressed concern with the closing of the hatcheries. He noted one of the hatcheries is located in his legislative district. Chairman Causer wanted to know how the PFBC came to the decision to close the two particular hatcheries. Arway responded, “The decision was
a difficult one.” He added, “It was not made by choice, it was made by need.” Arway explained, “We saw that we could not afford to continue to do what we do.” He pointed out that the pension costs and healthcare costs “drove us to this decision.”
Arway added, “We didn’t choose to do this ourselves.” He said that “this decision was forced by others.” Arway pointed out hatchers are one quarter of the PFBC’s expenses so that was one of the areas they had to look at. He said they looked at all of the hatchery systems and did a cost analysis of all the hatcheries. Arway noted that it costs more to raise a trout at Oswayo than any other hatchery because it is supplied by water sources which get cold in the winter time which prevent raising trout
because the water is too cold. He said Oswayo was chosen because of cost efficiency and Bellefonte was chosen because it was the most expensive hatchery.
Chairman Causer asked how the PFBC plans to continue to stock the streams considering both hatcheries are in north central Pennsylvania. Arway responded, “I want to assure you that we plan to continue to stock
those streams. Maybe not all of those streams that we historically stock.”
He explained that the PBFC worked with Penn State to come up with a model to determine where the most efficient uses of the agency’s trout are by local anglers. Arway further explained that there are two variables that correlate very well; population density and parking/angler access. He said trout will be transported throughout the state from the other hatcheries.
Chairman Causer commented that less trout will be stocked in those areas. Arway responded that studies indicate there is no correlation between the number of trout stocked and the number of licenses sold. He said he hoped anglers will understand that the PFBC cannot afford to stock like they did in the past.
Chairman Causer commented that the PFBC handled the closing of the hatcheries “very poorly” and could have been more out front in talking with people and legislators before making a decision by putting out a press release. He urged the Commission to reconsider its decision.
Chairman Haluska observed, “When you are talking about trout stocking, it is an investment in resource.” He predicted that by reducing the trout stock by 750,000 in-season stocking is not going to happen. Noting the Commission’s efforts to energize younger people to fish, Chairman Haluska commented that they will find other things to do if there is less resource. He told Arway, “I totally disagree with the approach the Commission is taking in closing two hatcheries and cutting the stock
by 750,000.
Chairman Haluska called for a moderate increase in the license fee and the trout stamp. He observed, “You can’t run a business and not raise the price of your product.” Chairman Haluska wanted to know how much Growing Greener money was used at the two hatcheries that are now being closed. Arway responded that “very little” money was used at
Oswayo and over $2 million at Bellefonte for a waste water treatment plant. Chairman Haluska replied. “That troubles me. That’s taxpayers’ money that we did a bond issue for and it is now $2 million that is just going to sit there.” He added, “That is not a very good investment of $2 million in taxpayers’ money.” Arway responded that there is time to work on the problem.
He explained it will take two years to close the hatcheries and four years for the rest of the cuts the Commission would have to make. Arway added that “if new revenues developed tomorrow we would keep the hatcheries open.”
Rep. Keller asked if the closing of the hatcheries was only based on employment costs. Arway responded, “No, not employment costs. It is based on the cost of the trout that is produced at the hatchery.” He added, “It is more expensive to raise trout at Oswayo than any other hatchery in the state.”
Rep. Keller noted that Arway had alluded to pensions and salaries of the employees at those two facilities. Arway explained that the employees had nothing to do with what hatcheries were selected for closure and everything was based on a cost analysis of the hatcheries. Rep. Keller wanted to know what drove the costs at the Oswayo and Bellefonte hatcheries. Arway said it was the cost of fish feed.
Rep. Keller asked why would that cost more at those two facilities compared to other hatcheries? Arway explained the Commission has to feed more at some hatcheries compared to others. He also spoke again about the water temperature variable at Oswayo.
Rep. Keller pointed out that the maximum fines had been increased under Act 167. He wanted to know if there are minimum fines. Arway replied, “Yes there is.”
Rep. Keller asked if the PFBC works with local sportsmen’s clubs on stocking trout. Arway responded, “Yes and we would like to do more.” He explained that the clubs stock one million trout while the Commission
does about 3.2 million per year.
Rep. Everett noted the Commission receives $5.2 million in leases and land agreements involving Marcellus shale. He wanted to know where that revenue goes. Arway explained that it goes into a restricted account specifically to spend on redeveloping the PFBC’s infrastructure. He further explained that the idea was to reinvest the money into high risk dams
and other infrastructure that is aging.
Rep. Everett then wanted to know what percentage of permit activity, inspections and violations are Marcellus related. Arway said he did not have them with him and he would provide the information to the
committee.
Rep. Everett asked if there has been any waterway that has been degraded on a long-term basis as a direct result of Marcellus activity. Arway responded that there have been intermittent spills and water quality problems that have been addressed by companies as they occur. He said the most significant problem has been sedimentation at the pipelines because they are long-term subtle effects that cannot be measured in a short amount of time. Arway added, “We haven’t
seen anything dramatic like a major fish kill over twenty miles of stream.” He said the PFBC is still investigating a major fish kill involving a coal company and a variety of waste waters.
Rep. Everett pointed out he serves on the Chesapeake Bay Commission and said that they receive reports that the water that is coming into the bay from the Susquehanna River is cleaner than it used to be. He wanted to know how that reconciles with the problems outlined by the PFBC regarding the Susquehanna River. Arway explained that the problems faced in the Susquehanna River are different than those in the Chesapeake Bay so the river needs a separate clean-up plan.
Rep. Gillespie wanted to know the number of water-related fatalities in 2012. Arway responded, “Twelve.” He explained they can’t correlate the number of fatalities to any one variable. Rep. Gillespie wanted to know how many of those fatalities were alcohol or drug related. Arway said, “About one third.” Rep. Gillespie then asked about the number of WCO openings. Arway explained that the plan is to trim the ranks by 17 positions. He said there are currently 13 vacancies right now.
Rep. Gillespie asked what percentage of trout anglers are seniors. Arway said he would have to provide the information to the committee.
Regarding the senior licenses, Rep. Moul wanted to know the fee for receiving a lifetime senior license. Arway replied, “$50.”
Rep. Moul commented that as opposed to charging for an individual trout stamp or charging for portability why doesn’t the Commission incorporate that into the cost of a license. Arway responded that the Commission would like to work with Rep. Moul to draft language to do that. He pointed out it would require a statutory change.
Rep. Moul asked if the PFBC receives any other moneys from the Environmental Stewardship Fund. Arway said they only receive money from Growing Greener.
Rep. Heffley spoke about the impact of DEP’s regulations regarding discharge limits on the co-ops in his district. He wanted to know if Arway could put a cost on those regulations on the PFBC and closing facilities. Arway explained that it was one of the things that led them to go from 5.2 million fish to 3.2 million fish because they had to reduce capacity to make sure they stayed within permit limits prescribed by DEP. He said he would have to get the number on the cost for the committee.
Rep. Heffley described the DEP requirements as “excessive” and “counterproductive” and wondered if the PFBC has ever
challenged DEP on some of those requirements. Arway explained that was before he was the Executive Director or they would have challenged them. He said the previous leadership chose not to challenge them. Rep. Hefley commented that the DEP requirements make it difficult for the co-ops to exist.
Rep. Maloney described DEP as “one of the most problematic agencies.” He noted the eight percent increase in the number of fishing licenses. Rep. Maloney wanted to know if that could be attributed to the youth mentoring program. Arway credited stepped-up marketing by the Commission and an increase in promotional activities. He noted the number of licenses will peak in March and April. Rep.
Maloney pointed out that 70 percent of the licenses are for trout. He also pointed out that a recent study which showed that in 2011 sportsmen and sportswomen spent over $1.5 billion on hunting and fishing in Pennsylvania which is more than corn or cattle which are the state’s number one and number two commodities. He said he was glad about the programs to target youth but expressed concern those programs could be on the chopping block. Arway said the Commission is “trying to do what we do with the youth programs.” He noted that fishing and hunting receives no subsidies. Arway told the committee members, “We need your help.”
Rep. Lucas wanted to know what happens with the hatcheries after the two year period. Arway explained that it is complicated to explain what steps will need to be taken. He did point out that both hatcheries will stay in production during the next two years. Rep. Lucas asked if the hatcheries could be started back up. Arway said, “Yes.” He did point out the hatcheries are too big a for a private group to take over unless they go into commercial fish production.
Rep. English noted Arway’s testimony regarding the Susquehanna River and DEP’s decision not to list it as an impaired waterway because “it does not have sufficient information to conclude that the river is or isn’t impaired.” He wanted to know if DEP will keep testing. Arway responded that DEP is committed to helping the PFBC find the problem. He added there is a need to fix the problem.
Chairman Causer expressed his concern with DEP and the PFBC debating the issue through news releases and urged them to sit down to find a solution. Arway countered that one of the values of having an independent commission is the ability to expose such issues in public. He added DEP and the Commission are looking at the same facts but reaching two different conclusions. According to Arway, the PFBC is being pushed by anglers and business along the Susquehanna River to find a solution. He said the issue is now in the hands of the EPA. Chairman Causer called on the Administration to get the agencies to sit down and work out a solution.
Chairman Haluska encouraged anglers to contact the members of the Commission regarding the hatchery closings. Arway said the PFBC would like to meet with legislators to find the $9 million over the next four years.
Chairman Haluska once again called for a modest increase in the licensing fee. He said he recommended it before to the members of the Commission and they expressed opposition to the idea. Chairman Haluska expressed his disagreement with “the Commission’s direction.”
Chairman Causer asked about Arway’s testimony regarding assessing a fee for the consumptive use and degradation of water. He wanted to know why the money should go to the PFBC instead of the Commonwealth if the water belongs to the people of Pennsylvania. Arway responded that he is not advocating that all of the money go to the PFBC but only a portion. According to Arway there is a precedent for assessing such a fee. He noted there are over 86,000 miles of rivers and streams in Pennsylvania and the Commonwealth is “allowing water to be given away.” Arway said the issue is “long overdue for discussion.”
Chairman Causer said he looks forward to the Legislative Budget and Finance Committee (LBFC) doing a study on the establishment of fees for the consumptive use and degradation of water.
He also said it is time to look at the possible merging of the PFBC with the Pennsylvania Game Commission as a way to reduce costs. Chairman Causer announced his plans to introduce a resolution directing the LBFC to study the idea. He also repeated his concern with the closing of the
hatcheries.
2/19/13, 1:00 p.m., Room 60, East Wing
By Jeff Cox, PLS
The committee conducted an informational meeting on the Pennsylvania Fish & Boat Commission’s 2012 Annual Report.
John Arway, Executive Director, Pennsylvania Fish & Boat Commission (PFBC), emphasized to the committee members that “one of the agency’s top goals it to identify alternative funding sources in order to sustain the agency.” He said,“Although the Commission is an independent administrative agency of state government and we often advocate the use pay, user benefit model, we are not immune from the debt challenges that lie ahead of us.”
According to Arway, “All state agencies have been told that we should prepare to absorb increases in employee pension and medical costs in the near future.” He cautioned, “Combine these costs with increases in employees wages and salaries, rising operating costs, and a flat or declining customer base, and we could have our own fiscal cliff to contend with if we don’t immediately live up to our fiduciary responsibilities.” Arway explained that the PFBC must reallocate more than $9 million over the next four years and every year thereafter to cover the projected costs. He further explained that approximately $6.7 million is needed for future employee healthcare and retirement benefits and $2.3 million for infrastructure needs including maintenance and repairs at hatcheries and other facilities and boating access areas. He added, “Therefore, staff and I worked on a Spending Reallocation Plan to determine what programs need to be cut to make up the $9 million we need annually to honor our obligations and to pay new bills that will come due by 2016.”
Arway outlined some of the steps being taken by the PFBC to reduce costs. He explained that the agency took the first steps in January by announcing that two hatcheries would be closed by the end of 2014.
Arway said the closing of the fish hatcheries in Bellefonte, Centre County, and Oswayo, Potter County, will result in annual savings of approximately $2 million. He explained that Oswayo “is the most costly per adult trout and is the least efficient” and “Bellefonte has the highest expenditures of all hatcheries.” Arway told the committee members the closures will involve jobs for 18 employees and a loss of 750,000 catchable trout. He added, “It is important to note that stocking will continue in the counties surrounding and previously stocked by these two hatcheries.” Arway noted that beginning last year the PBFC has started to implement
stocking changes across the commonwealth as part of a comprehensive plan to improve the efficiency and reduce the costs of its stocked trout program. He said, “For anglers, the changes mean some streams will receive fewer trout and others will be dropped from the stocking lists. These will be ones that have low angler use or have residency problems with trout.”
Arway also announced the agency has made the decision not to run a new Waterways Conservation Officer (WCO) class because the agency cannot afford to fill vacant WCO positions. He told lawmakers, “These cuts amount to about $3 million of the $9 million we need to find. The other $6 million will need to come from the rest of the agency’s operations, and all options for reducing spending are on the table.”
Another subject raised by Arway during his testimony was the ongoing decline of the smallmouth bass in the Susquehanna River. He said, “Throughout 2012, the commission publicly made the case that the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) needs to acknowledge the facts and add the river to the federal list of impaired waters.” Arway argued, “Adding the Susquehanna River to the list as a ‘high priority’ impaired water would trigger a two-year timeline under federal Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) regulations for DEP to develop a comprehensive plan to clean up the river.” He noted, “Sadly, the DEP did not list the Susquehanna River as an impaired waterway in its January report.” Arway explained that the plan does not become final until approved by the EPA so the PFBC has been asking members of Congress within the Susquehanna River watershed to contact the EPA and “demand that a plan is put in place to fix the Susquehanna River.”
Arway concluded his testimony by outlining some of the various options the PBFC is examining as ways to raise revenue.
He advocated for a consumptive use and degradation of water fee as “one of the most sustainable sources of long-term funding with the revenue being reinvested in conservation programs like those of the PBFC.” Arway also suggested the possibility of the PBFC receiving funding from any proposal to uncap the oil company franchise tax.
Chairman Causer noted that in the Annual Report the expenditures listed are for a period of 18 months and the revenues are for a period twelve months. Arway responded that it was a “mistake” and that the expenditure chart should have gone to June 30, 2012 instead of December 31, 2012 as listed in the report. Chairman Causer wanted to know how much money is in the reserve fund. According to Arway, there is $24.4 million in the reserve for the Fish Fund and $20.4 million in reserve for the Boat Fund for a total $44.8 million.
Chairman Causer asked if that equals one year of revenue. Arway explained that the PFBC is about halfway through its fiscal year and noted that their revenue does not come in until March and April so the
agency tries to keep the reserve so the agency has one year’s budget in reserve.
Chairman Causer expressed concern with the closing of the hatcheries. He noted one of the hatcheries is located in his legislative district. Chairman Causer wanted to know how the PFBC came to the decision to close the two particular hatcheries. Arway responded, “The decision was
a difficult one.” He added, “It was not made by choice, it was made by need.” Arway explained, “We saw that we could not afford to continue to do what we do.” He pointed out that the pension costs and healthcare costs “drove us to this decision.”
Arway added, “We didn’t choose to do this ourselves.” He said that “this decision was forced by others.” Arway pointed out hatchers are one quarter of the PFBC’s expenses so that was one of the areas they had to look at. He said they looked at all of the hatchery systems and did a cost analysis of all the hatcheries. Arway noted that it costs more to raise a trout at Oswayo than any other hatchery because it is supplied by water sources which get cold in the winter time which prevent raising trout
because the water is too cold. He said Oswayo was chosen because of cost efficiency and Bellefonte was chosen because it was the most expensive hatchery.
Chairman Causer asked how the PFBC plans to continue to stock the streams considering both hatcheries are in north central Pennsylvania. Arway responded, “I want to assure you that we plan to continue to stock
those streams. Maybe not all of those streams that we historically stock.”
He explained that the PBFC worked with Penn State to come up with a model to determine where the most efficient uses of the agency’s trout are by local anglers. Arway further explained that there are two variables that correlate very well; population density and parking/angler access. He said trout will be transported throughout the state from the other hatcheries.
Chairman Causer commented that less trout will be stocked in those areas. Arway responded that studies indicate there is no correlation between the number of trout stocked and the number of licenses sold. He said he hoped anglers will understand that the PFBC cannot afford to stock like they did in the past.
Chairman Causer commented that the PFBC handled the closing of the hatcheries “very poorly” and could have been more out front in talking with people and legislators before making a decision by putting out a press release. He urged the Commission to reconsider its decision.
Chairman Haluska observed, “When you are talking about trout stocking, it is an investment in resource.” He predicted that by reducing the trout stock by 750,000 in-season stocking is not going to happen. Noting the Commission’s efforts to energize younger people to fish, Chairman Haluska commented that they will find other things to do if there is less resource. He told Arway, “I totally disagree with the approach the Commission is taking in closing two hatcheries and cutting the stock
by 750,000.
Chairman Haluska called for a moderate increase in the license fee and the trout stamp. He observed, “You can’t run a business and not raise the price of your product.” Chairman Haluska wanted to know how much Growing Greener money was used at the two hatcheries that are now being closed. Arway responded that “very little” money was used at
Oswayo and over $2 million at Bellefonte for a waste water treatment plant. Chairman Haluska replied. “That troubles me. That’s taxpayers’ money that we did a bond issue for and it is now $2 million that is just going to sit there.” He added, “That is not a very good investment of $2 million in taxpayers’ money.” Arway responded that there is time to work on the problem.
He explained it will take two years to close the hatcheries and four years for the rest of the cuts the Commission would have to make. Arway added that “if new revenues developed tomorrow we would keep the hatcheries open.”
Rep. Keller asked if the closing of the hatcheries was only based on employment costs. Arway responded, “No, not employment costs. It is based on the cost of the trout that is produced at the hatchery.” He added, “It is more expensive to raise trout at Oswayo than any other hatchery in the state.”
Rep. Keller noted that Arway had alluded to pensions and salaries of the employees at those two facilities. Arway explained that the employees had nothing to do with what hatcheries were selected for closure and everything was based on a cost analysis of the hatcheries. Rep. Keller wanted to know what drove the costs at the Oswayo and Bellefonte hatcheries. Arway said it was the cost of fish feed.
Rep. Keller asked why would that cost more at those two facilities compared to other hatcheries? Arway explained the Commission has to feed more at some hatcheries compared to others. He also spoke again about the water temperature variable at Oswayo.
Rep. Keller pointed out that the maximum fines had been increased under Act 167. He wanted to know if there are minimum fines. Arway replied, “Yes there is.”
Rep. Keller asked if the PFBC works with local sportsmen’s clubs on stocking trout. Arway responded, “Yes and we would like to do more.” He explained that the clubs stock one million trout while the Commission
does about 3.2 million per year.
Rep. Everett noted the Commission receives $5.2 million in leases and land agreements involving Marcellus shale. He wanted to know where that revenue goes. Arway explained that it goes into a restricted account specifically to spend on redeveloping the PFBC’s infrastructure. He further explained that the idea was to reinvest the money into high risk dams
and other infrastructure that is aging.
Rep. Everett then wanted to know what percentage of permit activity, inspections and violations are Marcellus related. Arway said he did not have them with him and he would provide the information to the
committee.
Rep. Everett asked if there has been any waterway that has been degraded on a long-term basis as a direct result of Marcellus activity. Arway responded that there have been intermittent spills and water quality problems that have been addressed by companies as they occur. He said the most significant problem has been sedimentation at the pipelines because they are long-term subtle effects that cannot be measured in a short amount of time. Arway added, “We haven’t
seen anything dramatic like a major fish kill over twenty miles of stream.” He said the PFBC is still investigating a major fish kill involving a coal company and a variety of waste waters.
Rep. Everett pointed out he serves on the Chesapeake Bay Commission and said that they receive reports that the water that is coming into the bay from the Susquehanna River is cleaner than it used to be. He wanted to know how that reconciles with the problems outlined by the PFBC regarding the Susquehanna River. Arway explained that the problems faced in the Susquehanna River are different than those in the Chesapeake Bay so the river needs a separate clean-up plan.
Rep. Gillespie wanted to know the number of water-related fatalities in 2012. Arway responded, “Twelve.” He explained they can’t correlate the number of fatalities to any one variable. Rep. Gillespie wanted to know how many of those fatalities were alcohol or drug related. Arway said, “About one third.” Rep. Gillespie then asked about the number of WCO openings. Arway explained that the plan is to trim the ranks by 17 positions. He said there are currently 13 vacancies right now.
Rep. Gillespie asked what percentage of trout anglers are seniors. Arway said he would have to provide the information to the committee.
Regarding the senior licenses, Rep. Moul wanted to know the fee for receiving a lifetime senior license. Arway replied, “$50.”
Rep. Moul commented that as opposed to charging for an individual trout stamp or charging for portability why doesn’t the Commission incorporate that into the cost of a license. Arway responded that the Commission would like to work with Rep. Moul to draft language to do that. He pointed out it would require a statutory change.
Rep. Moul asked if the PFBC receives any other moneys from the Environmental Stewardship Fund. Arway said they only receive money from Growing Greener.
Rep. Heffley spoke about the impact of DEP’s regulations regarding discharge limits on the co-ops in his district. He wanted to know if Arway could put a cost on those regulations on the PFBC and closing facilities. Arway explained that it was one of the things that led them to go from 5.2 million fish to 3.2 million fish because they had to reduce capacity to make sure they stayed within permit limits prescribed by DEP. He said he would have to get the number on the cost for the committee.
Rep. Heffley described the DEP requirements as “excessive” and “counterproductive” and wondered if the PFBC has ever
challenged DEP on some of those requirements. Arway explained that was before he was the Executive Director or they would have challenged them. He said the previous leadership chose not to challenge them. Rep. Hefley commented that the DEP requirements make it difficult for the co-ops to exist.
Rep. Maloney described DEP as “one of the most problematic agencies.” He noted the eight percent increase in the number of fishing licenses. Rep. Maloney wanted to know if that could be attributed to the youth mentoring program. Arway credited stepped-up marketing by the Commission and an increase in promotional activities. He noted the number of licenses will peak in March and April. Rep.
Maloney pointed out that 70 percent of the licenses are for trout. He also pointed out that a recent study which showed that in 2011 sportsmen and sportswomen spent over $1.5 billion on hunting and fishing in Pennsylvania which is more than corn or cattle which are the state’s number one and number two commodities. He said he was glad about the programs to target youth but expressed concern those programs could be on the chopping block. Arway said the Commission is “trying to do what we do with the youth programs.” He noted that fishing and hunting receives no subsidies. Arway told the committee members, “We need your help.”
Rep. Lucas wanted to know what happens with the hatcheries after the two year period. Arway explained that it is complicated to explain what steps will need to be taken. He did point out that both hatcheries will stay in production during the next two years. Rep. Lucas asked if the hatcheries could be started back up. Arway said, “Yes.” He did point out the hatcheries are too big a for a private group to take over unless they go into commercial fish production.
Rep. English noted Arway’s testimony regarding the Susquehanna River and DEP’s decision not to list it as an impaired waterway because “it does not have sufficient information to conclude that the river is or isn’t impaired.” He wanted to know if DEP will keep testing. Arway responded that DEP is committed to helping the PFBC find the problem. He added there is a need to fix the problem.
Chairman Causer expressed his concern with DEP and the PFBC debating the issue through news releases and urged them to sit down to find a solution. Arway countered that one of the values of having an independent commission is the ability to expose such issues in public. He added DEP and the Commission are looking at the same facts but reaching two different conclusions. According to Arway, the PFBC is being pushed by anglers and business along the Susquehanna River to find a solution. He said the issue is now in the hands of the EPA. Chairman Causer called on the Administration to get the agencies to sit down and work out a solution.
Chairman Haluska encouraged anglers to contact the members of the Commission regarding the hatchery closings. Arway said the PFBC would like to meet with legislators to find the $9 million over the next four years.
Chairman Haluska once again called for a modest increase in the licensing fee. He said he recommended it before to the members of the Commission and they expressed opposition to the idea. Chairman Haluska expressed his disagreement with “the Commission’s direction.”
Chairman Causer asked about Arway’s testimony regarding assessing a fee for the consumptive use and degradation of water. He wanted to know why the money should go to the PFBC instead of the Commonwealth if the water belongs to the people of Pennsylvania. Arway responded that he is not advocating that all of the money go to the PFBC but only a portion. According to Arway there is a precedent for assessing such a fee. He noted there are over 86,000 miles of rivers and streams in Pennsylvania and the Commonwealth is “allowing water to be given away.” Arway said the issue is “long overdue for discussion.”
Chairman Causer said he looks forward to the Legislative Budget and Finance Committee (LBFC) doing a study on the establishment of fees for the consumptive use and degradation of water.
He also said it is time to look at the possible merging of the PFBC with the Pennsylvania Game Commission as a way to reduce costs. Chairman Causer announced his plans to introduce a resolution directing the LBFC to study the idea. He also repeated his concern with the closing of the
hatcheries.