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Post by Dutch on Apr 2, 2019 13:42:16 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2019 15:17:49 GMT -5
April Fools was yesterday. LOL.
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Post by Dutch on Apr 2, 2019 15:27:28 GMT -5
Aw gee, ya went and ruined it!
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Post by CoureurDeBois on Apr 2, 2019 15:28:55 GMT -5
My guess is the creedmoor, will go the way the WSM's have in ten years, or less.
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Post by davet on Apr 2, 2019 15:33:17 GMT -5
The articles I've read indicate the 6.5CM has the same velocities as my 6.5 modern action loaded Swede. And, the "new" 6mm Creedmore is pretty much a mirror of the .243 Win. The 6mm Creedmore has less case capacity and more pressure than the .243. Other than that......it has a fancier name.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2019 15:46:31 GMT -5
The articles I've read indicate the 6.5CM has the same velocities as my 6.5 modern action loaded Swede. And, the "new" 6mm Creedmore is pretty much a mirror of the .243 Win. The 6mm Creedmore has less case capacity and more pressure than the .243. Other than that......it has a fancier name. The Creedmoor's are about faster twists and more throat which allows greater COAL. And that allows higher ballistic coefficients. The sharper shoulder angles make the cartridges more efficient with less brass stretching and therefore less trimming. I have explained all this before on here. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2019 15:47:18 GMT -5
My guess is the creedmoor, will go the way the WSM's have in ten years, or less. Then you're simply out of touch with the modern shooting scene. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2019 15:48:02 GMT -5
Aw gee, ya went and ruined it! It was just your bad luck that I commented first. |
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Post by CoureurDeBois on Apr 2, 2019 16:25:49 GMT -5
Time will tell.
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Post by Dutch on Apr 2, 2019 16:31:42 GMT -5
I always considered the 6.5 caliber to be the sweet spot. Someone came up with a highly accurate 6.5 round that seemed to fit that category.
I have a 260, but Remington screwed it up by getting the twist wrong.
The Swede is a great cartridge that should have, but never caught on.
I think the Creedmoor fixed the ills of that category
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2019 5:06:54 GMT -5
Once you see a cartridge killing off the others around it, you know you have a winner. And the 6.5 Creed is putting the 25-06, 260 Rem, and 7mm-08 on life support as far as new gun sales are concerned. The 222 did that. The 223 did it. The 22-250 did it. The 243 did it. And now the 6.5 Creed is doing it.
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Post by davet on Apr 3, 2019 5:54:20 GMT -5
The articles I've read indicate the 6.5CM has the same velocities as my 6.5 modern action loaded Swede. And, the "new" 6mm Creedmore is pretty much a mirror of the .243 Win. The 6mm Creedmore has less case capacity and more pressure than the .243. Other than that......it has a fancier name. The Creedmoor's are about faster twists and more throat which allows greater COAL. And that allows higher ballistic coefficients. The sharper shoulder angles make the cartridges more efficient with less brass stretching and therefore less trimming. I have explained all this before on here. I probably read it. The longer throats "need" to be there in order to allow the longer 6.5mm bullet to NOT be seated deep into the shorter case of the Creedmore. (Shorter than 6.5x55, 6.5x47) The twist rate of my 6.5x55 is 1-8.....pretty much the same as what they are producing in the Creedmore. The Ballistic Coefficient of the 6.5 bullet is what it is. Doesn't matter if it's shot from a cannon or a 260 or a Creedmore or a 6.5x55. The higher BC is from the skinny long bullets. I was shooting my 6.5x55 the other day....fireforming some new Norma brass......and when I did my part, I could keep the bullet in the 1" target center at 200 yards. A consistent powder charge, quality scope, and solid bench all combine for getting those small groups. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2019 8:38:14 GMT -5
Guys don't want to have to run a medium length cartridge in a long action to get short action performance anymore.
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Post by dennyf on Apr 3, 2019 8:47:11 GMT -5
I've decided to call my Mausers, "7.9 Creedmores".
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Post by davet on Apr 3, 2019 9:51:30 GMT -5
Guys don't want to have to run a medium length cartridge in a long action to get short action performance anymore. The 30-06 will push a 150gr. bullet 2,900+fps. The 6.5 Creedmore (aka....Needmore) will push a 140gr. bullet at best, 2,700fps. (Loaddata info). My 6.5x55 will push a 140gr 2,900+fps. I don't think we are talking the same performance. Unless you go to a short action mag cartridge.....it won't be the same. Unless the handloader is really pushing the max. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2019 14:49:37 GMT -5
Dave, you have to reload to get that level of performance and my manuals suggest that you're not even running a safe load. I know John Barsness says the 6.5 Swede beats the Creedmoor by 50 to 75 fps which shot to shot variation can easily be more than that. The Creedmoor guys hit 2,700 with factory ammo which most of them use. The 6.5 Swede is a joke with factory ammo and then you have reloaders who run it into the danger zone and think they've recreated the 270 Winchester.
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Post by Muab Dib on Apr 3, 2019 15:12:50 GMT -5
Maybe put the Swede and the Creedmore in the same pressure zones and see what happens. Same action strength, same bullets, same barrel length, same pressures. Put the Swede in a modern action run it to the same modern pressures as the Creedmore with the same bullets and it doesn't have to go into "the danger zone" to beat the Creedmore. The Creedmore's claim to fame is a short case with adequate neck length, 6.5 bullets with high BC, and simply seating them out there to take advantage of the powder space available, along with low recoil. There's no magic with the Creedmore. Plus... Right now there are at least 3-4 if not more 6.5's being put up on short mag cases (take your pick) that out perform the Creedmore impressively. I'm sure you've seen them in the rags Mike.
Muab
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Post by davet on Apr 3, 2019 15:44:14 GMT -5
Factory ammo for the 6.5x55 is loaded so the ammo does not exceed the early 1900 pressure limits of the Swedish Mauser's of that time. However, load data for modern action rifles chambered in 6.5x55 is widely available. I load 49.0gr RL-22 (which for most 140gr. bullets is the top end load) and my chronograph shows the average velocity at 2,811fps. A few years ago I changed the load using H-4895 and....still within safe pressure limits for modern action rifles, I get just above 2,800fps from my heavy Shilen barreled Savage action.
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Post by turkeykiller on Apr 3, 2019 16:39:45 GMT -5
I don't think the deer knows if a bullet is goin 2800 fps or 2900 fps
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Post by Dutch on Apr 3, 2019 16:47:40 GMT -5
In high school, during study halls, a few of us had never ending discussions about which was best, 270 or 06.
I doubt that ever happens, anywhere.....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2019 17:10:14 GMT -5
Maybe put the Swede and the Creedmore in the same pressure zones and see what happens. Same action strength, same bullets, same barrel length, same pressures. Put the Swede in a modern action run it to the same modern pressures as the Creedmore with the same bullets and it doesn't have to go into "the danger zone" to beat the Creedmore. The Creedmore's claim to fame is a short case with adequate neck length, 6.5 bullets with high BC, and simply seating them out there to take advantage of the powder space available, along with low recoil. There's no magic with the Creedmore. Plus... Right now there are at least 3-4 if not more 6.5's being put up on short mag cases (take your pick) that out perform the Creedmore impressively. I'm sure you've seen them in the rags Mike. Muab I've seen them. I don't have a dog in the 6.5 hunt. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2019 17:12:37 GMT -5
In high school, during study halls, a few of us had never ending discussions about which was best, 270 or 06. I doubt that ever happens, anywhere..... We had those too. We also had a kid who truly believed his 30-30 shot dead on all the way to the 3 mile mark. He grew up and started working the Walmart Sporting Goods dept. No surprise there. That seems to be Walmarts type. |
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Post by davet on Apr 3, 2019 20:54:38 GMT -5
I don't think the deer knows if a bullet is goin 2800 fps or 2900 fps I dunno TK......I've seen deer do some pretty smart things. Maybe they have built in radar for boolits too? (to?,two?,tu?) |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2019 5:01:18 GMT -5
Far as I'm concerned 6.5's are a waste of time. If you only hunt deer, get a 243. If you need a bigger gun for bigger stuff, get a 270.
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Post by davet on Apr 4, 2019 7:06:56 GMT -5
6.5 is only .5mm bigger. Good for deer & groundhogs, and anything else a fellow wants to shoot.
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