Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 15:41:37 GMT -5
I don't want my bullets to be recovered, I want two holes, one in, one out. Put a finishing shot on my buck this year, back of the neck. Point blank, exploded inside into little fragments. Taxidermist was skinning it out and digging around and said, Hornady wouldn't be to happy with that performance. I have heard this before, Dutch. What I want is one shot, dead animal. I have killed a whole lot of deer and many other animals that only had one hole. I have found that a bullet that fragments such as yours mentioned above just doesn't do it for me. Neither does a bullet that fails to expand. However, one factor that changes bullet performance a whole lot is velocity at impact. There is probably only one bullet that will not fall apart at any velocity, and that is a solid. Barnes X comes close. |
|
|
|
Post by 3212 on Jan 19, 2020 15:04:18 GMT -5
Killed all my .243 deer with 100 grain Remington Core-Lokts and 100 grain Sierra Spitzer handloads until this last one.150 lbs taken at 15 yards with 100 grain Hornady Interlocks.Also took all the 30-30 deer with 170 grain Remington Core-lokts.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 6:03:52 GMT -5
Which goes to prove that you don't need a premium bullet to kill whitetail deer. Nor does one need a .300 magnum. A .243 or something similar will do the job. What is most important is shot placement.  |
|
|
|
Post by dougell on Jan 20, 2020 9:08:02 GMT -5
Very true Mutt.However,if you're looking for consistent performance,Barnes and bonded bullets are the way to go.
|
|
|
|
Post by davet on Jan 20, 2020 9:16:27 GMT -5
For whitetail deer in Pa.....shooting at 200 yards or less.....there's nothing that will beat a bang flop bullet like a 405gr. lead FP from a 45-70.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 10:45:18 GMT -5
Very true Mutt.However,if you're looking for consistent performance,Barnes and bonded bullets are the way to go. I think I am getting really good and consistant performance from Sierra Game King bullets, Doug. Now, if I decided I was young enough to go for moose I would go with a bonded core bullet or at least Nosler partitions. I really like Barnes bullets, but am not convinced I need to use them for deer. |
|
|
|
Post by dougell on Jan 20, 2020 11:02:30 GMT -5
My son started off with a .243.Since we both used that rifle in the early years,we killed a bunch of deer with it.We started off with 95 gr ballistic tips,which in that caliber are supposed to have a thicker jacket.We killed every deer but I didn't like that sometimes they exited and sometimes they didn't.My son dropped a small bb in it's tracks one time and we couldn't find an entrance or exit wound.The heart was in pieces but even after I skinned the deer,I couldn't find any wounds.I don't know how that's possible but it's true.I then started to load 85gr triple shocks.They blew through every deer and left a nice,quarter sized exit wound.I agree that deer are easy to kill and you don't need a premium bullet.I strive for consistency and an exit wound every time.Barnes and bonded bullets give that to me.I personally use 165 gr accubonds in a my .308 and after years of inconsistent results with Hornady interlocks.Always a dead deer but sometimes they fragment and sometimes they punch through.I've been loading 150 gr tssx's in my son's .308 and they(ttsx's and accubonds) are by far,the most consistent performing bullet I've ever seen.Are they essential?No but why not use them if they work exactly the same every time?
I bought my son a Kimber Montana in .223 to match his .308.He wanted to kill a deer with it the year I bought it so I loaded up some 55gr ttsx.I killed one deer with that rifle and I believe he killed 3.All went strait down except one that dragged itself a short distance and all exited.I think those Barnes bullets really shine in the smaller calibers.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 11:52:52 GMT -5
You and Dutch have a different opinion than I do, Doug. I could care less whether or not I have an exit wound if the deer is dead. I know that what you guys are thinking about is blood trail, and I'll grant you that you will get a better blood trail with two holes. I still maintain that the most important thing is shot placement. You can gut shoot a deer and have two real nice holes. I prefer to hit mine in that nearly foot square bullseye that is the rib cage, blow out a lung or two, and easily recover my deer. I usually do not take a shot unless I have that one, and I've had deer drop like a rock when hit there. What I believe causes them to drop like that is the energy dump from a properly expanding bullet. We are not experts on the subject, but in all fairness, what we like is what works for us, and it is based upon our experiences. Some years ago, a veterinarian named Robertson (Kevin, I believe) wrote a book about the perfect shot for African Game. I loaned my copy to a guy planning an African safari and he never returned it. No matter. I am not planning on going back there to hunt anyway and he might, so he needs it more than I do. I do have Craig Boddington's book THE PERFECT SHOT NORTH AMERICA. The art work in the book is superb, and if one doesn't understand shot placement after reading the section on his preferred game animal, there is little hope he ever will.  I met Craig and discussed this subject with him at a SCI convention some years back. He is what I might call an "expert," knowing full well my definition of same, but he has hunted many different species of game all over the world. He thinks whitetail deer are tough animals, probably tougher than mule deer, but not all that difficult to kill when a good bullet hits one where it is supposed to. Here is what he says about bullet choice: He says a whole lot more, but I have quoted the most essential. The two parentheses above are my additions and do not appear in the book. Craig also posts a number of photos of bullets he says have done the job for him. Take the above for what it is worth. It cost me nothing. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 12:01:24 GMT -5
I have to add this to the above. Boddington does not believe anything less powerful than a 7X57, .270 or .30-06 is a good choice for hunting deer. We did discuss this extensively, and came to the conclusion that a careful hunter shooting accurate loads will be very successful with a lighter caliber such as .243. We do need to keep in mind that the average size of whitetail bucks is probably a bit larger than it was when us old farts started hunting.
|
|
|
|
Post by CoureurDeBois on Jan 20, 2020 13:17:11 GMT -5
I have kill a fair number of deer with the 243, and I'm even thinking about going back to it next year. I have a nice Remington 700 mountain rife in the caliber, and it's somewhat lighter than my 308 pump. I can only recall one deer that didn't die quickly with one shot, that one I hit a small branch first that deflective the round into the hind quarter. I have loaded all my deer rounds with Hornady 100 grain round nose interlock. I like the round nose bullet for woods hunting which is 99.9% of my deer hunting. Except for one deer, which I killed at 130 yards, with a Savage 99 30-30, all the rest have been under 100 yard, and most under 50.
|
|
|
|
Post by dougell on Jan 20, 2020 14:13:52 GMT -5
Expert is a relative term Mutt without a concrete definition.While I always learn something new,I do consider myself to be an expert just based on the shear number of animals I've killed and been directly on hand when they died.I've read enough of Boddingtons stuff to believe that,while he has vastly more knowledge than I do on most game,I doubt he has the amount that I do when it comes to killing deer.I was on hand when 14 deer died this year and just as many died last year and the year before.I think we can all agree that if you put that bullet where it belongs,there really isn't much else that matters.However,it does matter if things don't go as planned or if that animal is shot at an odd angle.In those cases,I want a little extra insurance that my bullet is gonna penetrate fully to do more damage and give me a leak out the other side.I don't subscribe to the theory of dumping as much energy into the deer as possible and that energy in the dirt is wasted energy just like I don't subscribe to the uninformed benefits of huge mechanical broadheads..I've used everything from heavy slow to fast and fragile along with everything in between.I've come to the conclusion that shock doesn't kill.It really doesn't matter if you blow an organ to pieces or just put a hole through it.When either happens,that organ no longer functions and it's lights out within seconds.Every situation is different and the results can be completely different with almost the exact shot placement.When you see hundreds of deer die,that becomes apparent.The vast majority of deer we shoot,drop on the spot or within a few feet.Every now and then,one surprises us and decides to take off.When that happens,I want two holes.I saw 7 deer die this year that were shot with .308's.One was shot with a 165gr accubond and it took a few steps towards me when I shot and fell over.My son shot 6 with 150gr tssx and one bull dozed itself for about 20 yards.The others all dropped like a concrete cloud.I did pay a little bit more for a box of 50 ttsx but it's worth it to me.One thing is for certain,you don't walk up to where a deer was standing after you shot at it with a ttsx and contemplate whether or not you hit it.The evidence is there 100% of the time.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 14:15:09 GMT -5
I have to add this to the above. Boddington does not believe anything less powerful than a 7X57, .270 or .30-06 is a good choice for hunting deer. We did discuss this extensively, and came to the conclusion that a careful hunter shooting accurate loads will be very successful with a lighter caliber such as .243. We do need to keep in mind that the average size of whitetail bucks is probably a bit larger than it was when us old farts started hunting. He's a good man then. |
|
|
|
Post by Muab Dib on Jan 20, 2020 14:16:16 GMT -5
To be honest with you, I've used a 243 Win. in a Remington 600 Mohawk (short 18" bbl) with both the 100 gr. Sierra Game King and the 100 gr. Nosler Partition at 2800 fps (chronographed) to kill a number of deer. All were shot under 100 yds. in the mountains and I couldn't tell you which killed the deer deader. Holes on both sides. Deer dropped at the shot. As Muttley said... shot placement is key with lighter calibers. JMHO
Muab
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 14:18:26 GMT -5
To be honest with you, I've used a 243 Win. in a Remington 600 Mohawk (short 18" bbl) with both the 100 gr. Sierra Game King and the 100 gr. Nosler Partition at 2800 fps (chronographed) to kill a number of deer. All were shot under 100 yds. in the mountains and I couldn't tell you which killed the deer deader. Holes on both sides. Deer dropped at the shot. As Muttley said... shot placement is key with lighter calibers. JMHO Muab It certainly becomes more critical the smaller you go. |
|
|
|
Post by Muab Dib on Jan 20, 2020 15:12:27 GMT -5
To be honest with you, I've used a 243 Win. in a Remington 600 Mohawk (short 18" bbl) with both the 100 gr. Sierra Game King and the 100 gr. Nosler Partition at 2800 fps (chronographed) to kill a number of deer. All were shot under 100 yds. in the mountains and I couldn't tell you which killed the deer deader. Holes on both sides. Deer dropped at the shot. As Muttley said... shot placement is key with lighter calibers. JMHO Muab It certainly becomes more critical the smaller you go. Always Orange; regardless of the caliber. Muab |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 15:29:28 GMT -5
I've noticed much quicker kills on liver hits with say, the 30-06 as opposed to the 243.
|
|
|
|
Post by Muab Dib on Jan 20, 2020 15:52:00 GMT -5
Heart-Lung Orange; run 50 yds (regardless of caliber) and you have your meal. Neck... well then you don't have to track...and you have your meal. Again; regardless of caliber shot placement. Muab |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 15:55:14 GMT -5
Like I said before I take a lot of running shots. |
|
|
|
Post by Muab Dib on Jan 20, 2020 16:03:08 GMT -5
Like I said before I take a lot of running shots. Well pardon me for say'n this Orange but...you be the fool; WAIT for THE shot.... Muab |
|
|
|
Post by Dutch on Jan 20, 2020 16:18:39 GMT -5
I like the shoulder shot. They go right down and don't get up
|
|
|
|
Post by Muab Dib on Jan 20, 2020 16:28:45 GMT -5
I like the shoulder shot. They go right down and don't get up Yep, that'll do it too. (but you lose a bit of meat Dutch). Wait for "the" shot... aim small, miss small... or so they say...  Muab |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 16:37:56 GMT -5
Like I said before I take a lot of running shots. Well pardon me for say'n this Orange but...you be the fool; WAIT for THE shot.... Muab Well it ain't like they're gonna suddenly stop running. If I have reason to believe they will I do wait. But probably half my deer or more have been killed running. |
|
|
|
Post by CoureurDeBois on Jan 20, 2020 16:39:32 GMT -5
Heart-Lung Orange; run 50 yds (regardless of caliber) and you have your meal. Neck... well then you don't have to track...and you have your meal. Again; regardless of caliber shot placement. Muab I'll disagree on the neck, if you catch the spinal column, or come close enough to rupture it, it's a down deer, if you don't it's not. I've spent to much time and distance trailing neck shot deer to take that shot, and some we never did recover. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 17:01:45 GMT -5
True story, the only deer I've ever hit but not recovered with a rifle was a 50 yard, standing stock still, doe that I took a careful aimed shot at with a 270. Had blood for 400 yards then lost it. My bullet must've deflected in the brush.
|
|
|
|
Post by Muab Dib on Jan 20, 2020 17:11:36 GMT -5
Heart-Lung Orange; run 50 yds (regardless of caliber) and you have your meal. Neck... well then you don't have to track...and you have your meal. Again; regardless of caliber shot placement. Muab I'll disagree on the neck, if you catch the spinal column, or come close enough to rupture it, it's a down deer, if you don't it's not. I've spent to much time and distance trailing neck shot deer to take that shot, and some we never did recover. Well, we disagree... Not say'n it can't happen; but every deer I've ever shot (and my son), in the neck dropped like a brick. Muab |
|
