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Post by Dutch on Oct 5, 2015 19:19:38 GMT -5
Really? I think most deer researchers would prove you wrong.
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Post by Dutch on Oct 5, 2015 19:30:09 GMT -5
Here is an inferior buck, as a 1.5 year old, and then as a 2.5 year old, I think.  |
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Post by turkeykiller on Oct 5, 2015 19:49:16 GMT -5
One example does not prove your theory 100%. Also compare the thickness of your 1.5 yr.old pic with the trailcam pic. Quite a difference. I have no pics, but myself and others in yrs pre-AR have seen 2.5 yr old spikes.
You didn't answer why they shoot management deer, if genetics mean nothing.
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Post by Dutch on Oct 5, 2015 20:04:21 GMT -5
One example does not prove your theory 100%. Also compare the thickness of your 1.5 yr.old pic with the trailcam pic. Quite a difference. I have no pics, but myself and others in yrs pre-AR have seen 2.5 yr old spikes. You didn't answer why they shoot management deer, if genetics mean nothing. Many in Texas feel that even under high fence, the genetics of the herd cannot be changed. Just because someone in Texas does it, doesn't mean they are right in doing it. |
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Post by Dutch on Oct 5, 2015 20:07:28 GMT -5
I used to have the PGC's aging and antler data. There were so few 2.5 yo spikes, it wasn't funny. Also, when they age deer, they look at tooth replacement. That ONE tooth, could be replace right before buck season, and makes it appear the buck was 2.5 years old.
I myself have seen that, and it may have indicated an early born fawn.
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Post by GlennD on Oct 5, 2015 20:15:16 GMT -5
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Post by GlennD on Oct 5, 2015 20:16:23 GMT -5
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Post by GlennD on Oct 5, 2015 20:18:24 GMT -5
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Post by GlennD on Oct 5, 2015 20:19:19 GMT -5
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Post by bawanajim on Oct 5, 2015 21:43:23 GMT -5
Glenn, you sure have some nice bucks to hunt, I wish we could get the age of our bucks up another year.
But guys won't let them alone, they make AR and their dead.
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Post by Muab Dib on Oct 6, 2015 6:59:43 GMT -5
Glenn, you sure have some nice bucks to hunt, I wish we could get the age of our bucks up another year. But guys won't let them alone, they make AR and their dead.To throw another log on the fire Jim; what's so terrible (if that's what you're implying) about a hunter shooting an AR legal buck? Muab |
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Post by davet on Oct 6, 2015 8:04:05 GMT -5
All I say about hunting for meat is.......there's a lot more meat on a buck of 1.5 years old than there is on a doe of 1.5 years old. Males are always (I know there are exceptions to "blanket statements") bigger than the females. They just are.
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Post by bowbum on Oct 6, 2015 8:42:22 GMT -5
The thickness of his main beam shows him to be older than 1.5. When will you people understand the that every buck does NOT increase rack size with age. As far as putting genetics to rest, you should tell that to the ranch owners who take out management deer. Couldn't disagree with you more! That is a baby buck....1-1/2 years old. To me, there's no reason to doubt it. I've seen bucks that I knew as fawns with piebald markings or other distinguishable traits that developed heavier racks than that in their first year. I've seen bucks with 8 point, 13 inch spread racks in their first year. Not all young bucks are spikes and definitely, if bucks are in fair range, the greatest majority will increase in body size and rack size year-to-year. Also, comparing ranch deer farming with free ranging deer is futile. That buck's rack could well have been decided by the maternal genetic contributions and his body size possibly determined by the paternal side. Ranchers establish genetic profiles on all the deer they breed, they track and cull and even then they have management deer each and every year from couplings of what they consider the best potential breeders. In nature it is much, much more of a crap shoot. That buck could conceivably become a Booner in a few years. |
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Post by turkeykiller on Oct 6, 2015 10:38:13 GMT -5
bowbum, I couldn't disagree with you more.
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Post by bawanajim on Oct 6, 2015 10:47:39 GMT -5
Glenn, you sure have some nice bucks to hunt, I wish we could get the age of our bucks up another year. But guys won't let them alone, they make AR and their dead.To throw another log on the fire Jim; what's so terrible (if that's what you're implying) about a hunter shooting an AR legal buck? Muab Oh theres nothing the matter with anyone shooting them, I would much more like to see them killing little bucks than a mature doe that offers the herd so much more. Its just a sign of how much pressure we have on a very diminished deer herd. As for the does, I'm all for kids shooting them and in areas of abundance adults also, I just don't feel the need for me to shoot them. |
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Post by bake545 on Oct 6, 2015 11:23:18 GMT -5
Here is an inferior buck, as a 1.5 year old, and then as a 2.5 year old, I think. You're right Dutch, that buck was radio collared as a 1.5 and the antlers were cut off at that time. He was shot the next year by the landowner were it was trapped. I'm glad you kept that picture b/c I couldn't find it! That type of growth isn't unusual where we hunt but it is farm country. I have little doubt there are bucks destined to have tiny racks most of their lives just as there are people who will be short. But some overplay the genetics issues. Age and nutrition are by far the limiting factors and really the only two you can have any impact on anyway. |
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Post by Dutch on Oct 6, 2015 20:28:02 GMT -5
Many would look at that first rack and suggest the buck was "inferior" because the points were developed, in fact, it's just young.
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Post by dougell on Oct 19, 2015 10:47:10 GMT -5
We have a pretty tame 7 point running around that has decent mass and decent tine length.He probably has a 15" spread.Last year,there was a little one horned spike running around in the exact same area and he acted exactly the same way.I'm almost positive it's the same deer.
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Post by dougell on Oct 19, 2015 10:51:42 GMT -5
When I went to Penn State,I took bowhunting as a phys-ed class.Part of the class was spending time at the deer pens.They had a few really small spikes that turned into nice 16" eight points for the second rack.Most of those spikes were late born fawns.Their bodies have to catch up before the rack develops.Culling 1.5 year old bucks that appear inferior doesn't help a thing.I'm not sure what a genetically inferior buck looks like.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2015 11:48:24 GMT -5
I used to have the PGC's aging and antler data. There were so few 2.5 yo spikes, it wasn't funny. Also, when they age deer, they look at tooth replacement. That ONE tooth, could be replace right before buck season, and makes it appear the buck was 2.5 years old. I myself have seen that, and it may have indicated an early born fawn. I shot one of those 2.5 year old spikes in Cameron County in 1968. It weighed 81 pounds. We also took one in South Carolina this past week. It weighed 130 pounds. |
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