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Post by davet on May 20, 2015 9:15:20 GMT -5
Perhaps an example of a state in which a severance tax was imposed and the drilling for gas or oil ended? There is no state where a severance tax has ended oil or gas drilling and I doubt that most reasonable people are predicting that outcome. Production may be curtailed or targeted to higher value producing wells, as the basic logic of business certainly would dictate. On a personal note, for me it is largely about the mantra that; 'other states do it therefore it must be good." That philosophy is infantile in it's concept......( I refer to our mothers telling us that just because Johnny, or Adolph, did it doesn't mean we should.) Aside from a repulsion with the copy cat logic is the fundamental right or wrong with Pennsylvania providing incentives to business to move here by "tax advantages" ........while in the case of one of the most beneficial industries in history......proposing a tax burden. I'll ad that, in states where severance is applied, some are on the books but not actually applied and some provide variances and exceptions, based in employment etc. Additionally, it is the landowner, (private citizen), in many cases who ends up paying the tax in the form of deductions from their owed royalty. Nobody seems to care about that. Especially in light of the fact that PA. does not uphold it's own criteria for royalty payment now. Who is gonna believe they would protect citizens against the severance being taken out of their paychecks? So, again, I maintain it simply is people thinking they can benefit from the sacrifice of others, whether those others be private citizens or business that gets an opposite treatment from any and all other businesses. The telling thing is so obvious that not one single person here who supports severance will address the above observations in an objective, unbiased manner. Bowbum, the above is a croc of cow dung. I've show you independent studies that have proven it. I've shown you where the big gas companies do their accounting to cheat the land owners out of their royalties. So, don't come through with this BS about you can't this and you can't that. It's all been shown to you.
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Post by bowbum on May 20, 2015 16:03:36 GMT -5
There is no state where a severance tax has ended oil or gas drilling and I doubt that most reasonable people are predicting that outcome. Production may be curtailed or targeted to higher value producing wells, as the basic logic of business certainly would dictate. On a personal note, for me it is largely about the mantra that; 'other states do it therefore it must be good." That philosophy is infantile in it's concept......( I refer to our mothers telling us that just because Johnny, or Adolph, did it doesn't mean we should.) Aside from a repulsion with the copy cat logic is the fundamental right or wrong with Pennsylvania providing incentives to business to move here by "tax advantages" ........while in the case of one of the most beneficial industries in history......proposing a tax burden. I'll ad that, in states where severance is applied, some are on the books but not actually applied and some provide variances and exceptions, based in employment etc. Additionally, it is the landowner, (private citizen), in many cases who ends up paying the tax in the form of deductions from their owed royalty. Nobody seems to care about that. Especially in light of the fact that PA. does not uphold it's own criteria for royalty payment now. Who is gonna believe they would protect citizens against the severance being taken out of their paychecks? So, again, I maintain it simply is people thinking they can benefit from the sacrifice of others, whether those others be private citizens or business that gets an opposite treatment from any and all other businesses. The telling thing is so obvious that not one single person here who supports severance will address the above observations in an objective, unbiased manner. Bowbum, the above is a croc of cow dung. I've show you independent studies that have proven it. I've shown you where the big gas companies do their accounting to cheat the land owners out of their royalties. So, don't come through with this BS about you can't this and you can't that. It's all been shown to you. I have no idea what your crock is full of. If not cow then Bull I suppose. Actually it has been "ME" telling of the cheating going on against landowners. You may have also mentioned it but I have been emphatic about it. You speak in riddles Dave, and therefore I seldom read what you post. Sorry! For instance; "I've show you independent studies that have proven it."Independent by whom and proven what? for another instance; "So, don't come through with this BS about you can't this and you can't that."What the hell does that mean? I'll say again for your clarity that the idea that other states do it, therefore it must be fair, is infantile in it's logic....as our Mom's told us. I'll also clarify again that the people in support of this should question and respond if it would be fair if applied to all other earth source industries. ie; farming, logging, quarrying, mining of ore, etc. etc. and a big etc. If you desire to be specific and rational, I'll gladly respond with answers. But I'm leaving in the early a.m. for my Granddaughters graduation in Michigan, so please be patient and I'll catch up with you later. (PS, you may want to read my post where I tell of deceptive accounting, (theft), of royalty owners payments).
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Post by davet on May 20, 2015 16:47:02 GMT -5
Bowbum for (Name the office)__________________________ A good politician as he can speak with a triple fork tongue. Bowbum, you make me grow tired and weary of this subject. It's nothing more than academic anyway. So, if you want me to tell you your right...Ok, your right. Maybe you will now stop your non-stop blathering about economic concepts that are laughable and nonsensical.
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Post by buzz on May 20, 2015 17:16:31 GMT -5
Bowbum for (Name the office)__________________________ A good politician as he can speak with a triple fork tongue. Bowbum, you make me grow tired and weary of this subject. It's nothing more than academic anyway. So, if you want me to tell you your right...Ok, your right. Maybe you will now stop your non-stop blathering about economic concepts that are laughable and nonsensical.
That statement alone lets me know how truly naive you really are about this topic.
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Post by davet on May 20, 2015 17:23:42 GMT -5
Bowbum for (Name the office)__________________________ A good politician as he can speak with a triple fork tongue. Bowbum, you make me grow tired and weary of this subject. It's nothing more than academic anyway. So, if you want me to tell you your right...Ok, your right. Maybe you will now stop your non-stop blathering about economic concepts that are laughable and nonsensical.
That statement alone lets me know how truly naive you really are about this topic.
Your response tells me that your level of economic understanding is, to say it politely, in the upper ten percent of the lower five percent of those who even have a faint grasp of the subject.
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Post by buzz on May 20, 2015 17:42:47 GMT -5
That statement alone lets me know how truly naive you really are about this topic.
Your response tells me that your level of economic understanding is, to say it politely, in the upper ten percent of the lower five percent of those who even have a faint grasp of the subject.
............cute.........but I am quite sure I understand the economic impact of this business. Having owned a thriving business that worked in the business, sitting on a bank advisory board for 10 years, being a local elected twp official dealing with the business, owning land and dealing with leases ..............have all given me a pretty good incite, from many different angles, as to the different aspects of this business on a 1st hand basis.
But I do appreciate your humor...........
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Post by davet on May 21, 2015 5:54:00 GMT -5
Buzz, No humor intended. In my experience there are essentially two types of successful business people out there. Those who are smart, and those who are lucky. I've know both. I've know those who have owned their own business's, been on bank BOD's, owned the majority of stock in small banks, did "opt out" of the elected gigs (at least smart enough to do that). This didn't make them smart. It just put them in a position of authority....which they liked....but "smart" or "having the intelligence to make wise decisions" or "assess the appropriate risk"? Not so much.
I could figure you were a politician. No surprise there. I've always stated that the smart people don't run for office. And smart people who are self-employed never run for office. You can draw your own conclusion from there. Or.....just ask if you need help. Lucky guy.
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Post by buzz on May 21, 2015 9:52:27 GMT -5
This topic is not about me or my business, so I will opt out of further discussion about that. I was just trying to show I had dealt with the gas business from many angle's............ guess that makes me lucky....
As far as the politician stuff........I am Twp supervisor in a tiny rural township , that I grew up in. I care about what was happening in our town, so I chose to get involved. No aspirations for any more than that, just giving back to the town I grew up in. Job has zero benefits, and paid $50 per monthly meeting up to a year ago, when it went up to a whopping $150 per monthly meeting. I probably average 4 or 5 meetings a month for various twp business, no more pay, although I could charge more, I never have. Certainly not a job I do for the money or benefits, and no clout what so ever in being a Twp supervisor in a little country town.........it's one of those job's where it is hard to get anyone to run for it, as it is thankless and really no pay or benny's..........just giving back to the town I grew up in. If in your eyes that makes me a "politician"......so be it .........
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Post by bowbum on May 26, 2015 16:09:00 GMT -5
Bowbum for (Name the office)__________________________ A good politician as he can speak with a triple fork tongue. Bowbum, you make me grow tired and weary of this subject. It's nothing more than academic anyway. So, if you want me to tell you your right...Ok, your right. Maybe you will now stop your non-stop blathering about economic concepts that are laughable and nonsensical. davet, I've been gone for 5 days and that is the best you can come up with??? Look, (or don't look), 8 miles of innuendo and riddles still do not qualify as meaningful questions or specific comments. (innuendo....you do know what that is) Maybe you could make at least some slight direct reference to whatever "economic concepts" we are debating and show the specifics of your data? ? Nah, that might take you down a new and scary path. I've seen a problem with some people who work in a trade....say like a lineman who comes home and thinks every round pliable thing, ropes, clothesline etc. carries electricity and thus warns folks to not touch it. Is that the sort of economic conundrum your are wrestling with? Do you see complication in; jobs in, taxes paid, extra taxes paid, cleaner product, product out to market, product contributes to national security for the long term, downside is negligible, even more so than farming?
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