Post by pfsc on May 14, 2015 16:20:29 GMT -5
Senate Energy and Environmental Resources Committee
5/13/15, 9:00 a.m., 461 Main Capitol
By Elly Henry, PLS
The committee met to consider a bill and the nomination of Acting Secretary of the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, Cindy Dunn.
SB 513 McGarrigle, Thomas - (PN 463) Amends the Solid Waste Management Act in residual waste, further providing for transportation of residual waste; providing for definitions; and abrogating a regulation. The department may not prohibit the vehicular transportation of leachate discharged from a collection and handling system of landfill to an offsite facility for the treatment of the leachate. Effective in 60 days. - The bill was unanimously reported as committed.
Chairman Gene Yaw (R-Lycoming) explained that SB 513 addresses a problem that can occur during or following occasions of heavy rainfall, when leachate facilities become overburdened and are forced to transport the leachate elsewhere. He added that Sen. Thomas McGarrigle (R-Delaware), the bill’s sponsor, has a landfill in his district that faces this problem, and is among those that need the relief of land transport in order to continue to operate normally during exigent times.
Sen. Elder Vogel (R-Beaver) questioned whether the bill applies to private facilities as well as municipal facilities. The chairman clarified that the bill applies to both.
The committee then considered the nomination of Acting Secretary of the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources (DCNR), Cindy Dunn. The nomination was unanimously reported.
Sen. Pat Vance (R-Cumberland) introduced Dunn as a constituent with whom she has a long history, from her time at Audubon Pennsylvania and the Alliance for the Chesapeake Bay, to decade-long work with DCNR under three administrations. According to Sen. Vance, Dunn is an ideal candidate with far-reaching knowledge of conservation issues.
Dunn thanked the committee and told them that her “vision for Pennsylvania” is to make DCNR the best conservation agency in the country. She affirmed that they are primed to be just that, with a strong and deep legacy and history of conservation. She lauded the state’s park system, forests, and grants program that allows the Department to reach all cities and communities in the Commonwealth. By working with the legislature, she feels there is much room for expansion and advancement. There is great economic opportunity, both in tourism and in the forest products industry, as well as the gas industry, which is already established on state lands, Dunn said.
Chairman Yaw noted that he had questions oriented around Article one, Section 27 of the Pennsylvania Constitution: The people have a right to clean air, pure water, and to the preservation of the natural, scenic, historic and esthetic values of the environment. Pennsylvania’s public natural resources are the common property of all the people, including generations yet to come. As trustee of these resources, the Commonwealth shall conserve and maintain them for the benefit of all the people.
His concerns are that “all the people” is not a term necessary applicable in the case of state lands. He noted, too, that “economy” and “environment” are not mutually exclusive terms; that state lands must be used wisely, but there are economic opportunities not being capitalized on. He noted in particular, drawing in owners of ATVs, despite the fact that certain groups of people may object. To his understanding, there are 160,000 registered ATVs in Pennsylvania that could be utilizing DCNR state lands. However, there are only 250 miles of state trails with ATV access. He posited that adjustments could be made to tap into this multi-billion dollar industry.
Dunn agreed that large ATV parks are tourist destinations for that constituency and economic generators for the state. She explained that these parks are often formed above abandoned mines, and that the ultimate result is improvement to the environment. She said Pennsylvania currently has two such parks. Dunn feels the next big opportunity lies in the southwest portion of the state, where there are a number of abandoned mines, and she has spoken with legislators to that end. She believes that promoting ATV use as a true recreation by providing these destinations as an opportunity to travel would benefit the economy. She noted that the park in Northumberland County also caters to other off-road vehicles and draws ATV enthusiasts from New Jersey. Dunn would like to improve park trail heads for ease of access to all of these vehicles.
Sen. Vogel would like to help DCNR find an appropriate area in Western Pennsylvania, noting that many of these ATV owners travel to West Virginia to take advantage of their parks. He would also like to see enhancements in the form of overnight facilities surrounding existing state parks.
Chairman Yaw is also concerned about use of state lands. It has come to his attention that DCNR entered into a contract with a company called Crown Castle in 2011 to lease cell towers on state-owned properties. He noted 496 such towers are currently being managed by Crown Castle. Under that contract, the company can lease, build new towers subject to DCNR’s approval, and have other allowances. There are other contractors, who were grandfathered in and also have towers on DCNR land. One of these contractors wished to improve his 48 year-old tower, and reached out to the Chairman. The State Police had approached him seeking to put an antenna on a tower in the area, and the DCNR tower was full. DCNR denied the contractor’s request to build a new tower. They argued that his tower is 220 feet tall, theirs is 250 feet tall, and were he to build a new tower, it could only be 190 feet tall. This height is based on guidelines issued by DCNR in 2000, it was explained. The Chairman’s concern is that it appears DCNR is directly competing against private industry. Dunn responded that she was unfamiliar with the contract, but would look into it. She followed that oftentimes DCNR towers are built in response to local emergency management communication needs.
The Chairman then broached Dunn’s prior employment as CEO of PennFuture. While there, a document was produced and issued in January 2013 called “A Fresh Start for Pennsylvania.” The study included reference to Loyalsock Forest, which is located in his district. The forest’s mineral rights are owned privately and have been leased, he explained, noting that there is major opposition to drilling the land. One concern issued in the PennFuture report was a recommendation to “use all legal means possible to stymie the drilling on the property.” There have been several drilling proposals offered, one of which was crafted by then-Secretary of DCNR John Quigley, which would allow for drilling on the land as long as there was no surface disturbance. The Chairman noted that there is legal term, called SLAPP litigation - Strategic Litigation Against Public Participation, and it seems to him that the report’s recommendation is the reverse of SLAPP litigation: public litigation against private rights. Since the report was issued while Dunn was CEO, his concern is that she may not respect private rights. He contends that there are hundreds of years of legal history that set the precedent that subsurface rights are the dominant rights, and surface land must comply with that. He further expressed concerns regarding the money being spent by DCNR on this and similar lawsuits.
Dunn responded that DCNR has yet to begin discussing Loyalsock; it will be a dialogue handled in the governor’s Office of General Counsel and Policy. She remarked that the forest in question has a “mosaic of ownership” that makes the issue a complex one. She also assured the Chairman that the two companies wishing to drill are not pressing the Department, and are patient with the slow process.
Minority Chairman John Yudichak (D-Luzerne) commented that, over the years, money from the Oil and Gas Lease Fund has been used to run DCNR day-to-day operations when it should have been used to purchase subsurface rights and asked how that will change with this administration.
Dunn replied that putting funds back into DCNR’s general fund budget is something they spoke of at the budget hearings. DCNR has a tremendous backlog of infrastructure needs, she said. The Oil and Gas Lease Fund money currently being used for operations could be well used and well vested in infrastructure and the parks. In the proposed 2015-16 budget, the governor has included $20 million in additional DCNR funding.
Chairman Yudichak then spoke to the problem of access to the parks for first responders and other emergency personnel, and asked Dunn if there was a public safety plan in motion. He also asked that the park officials work with emergency responders. He then thanked Dunn for her help in seeing the passage of SB 699. Dunn said the department does a complete review of safety measures and is always trying to find ways to improve.
Sen. Scott Hutchinson (R-Venango) commented that he believes that state-owned parks and forest are an asset for multiple uses. Trails are very important: horseback trails, bicycle trails, ATV trails, etc. Timbering is also an important part of state forests, allowing access to the forests and keeping them healthy with necessary tree removal.
Sen. Hutchinson also said that he has been receiving many questions regarding people coming into upper levels of the administration from “high places” like Dunn’s role at PennFuture. He claims that the large number of high profile appointments of people similar to her makes people “uncomfortable.” He questioned what would happen if PennFuture, for example, applied for some sort of DCNR grant.
Dunn replied that DCNR has a well-vetted ethics policy. Anyone who handles grants in any capacity must sign an ethics form. As soon as a grant application is received, it is immediately reviewed for potential conflicts. PennFuture is not on the list of grants they have received; were they to apply, she would recuse herself. She would also recuse herself if a PennFuture competitor applied for a grant. Recusals would extend to lower-level employees of DCNR, who are former PennFuture employees, as well as their relatives and spouses.
Sen. Hutchinson then questioned the number of former PennFuture employees that are now with the Department, contending that he has had constituents comment that there “seems to be a heavy weight there.” He asked if DCNR is planning to hire additional former employees. Dunn replied that they have received no applications, as such, but it is too early to say for sure. She also reminded Sen. Hutchinson that some former PennFuture employees may have joined DCNR many years ago, and served in various roles and capacities well before her appointment. Sen. Hutchinson clarified that the chief concern is that Dunn (or others) might be bringing a direct PennFuture agenda into state government. Looking at the bigger picture, people are concerned that these practices will span across or affect multiple departments. Dunn reiterated that some of those he is referring to have not been employed by PennFuture for a long time. She said there is no set or secret agenda; the website is also very transparent, allowing anyone to see who is working on what project(s). The Department’s goals are diffuse, not set, she added.
Chairman Yaw compared Dunn’s experience as CEO with PennFuture to his own as a lawyer - i.e. that, as a lawyer, you must represent your client to the best of your ability. As CEO, Dunn had to represent that organization and their interests. However, now that they serve in public roles, their orientation has to change. He cautioned her to exercise independent judgment, even if her decisions go against those of PennFuture.
5/13/15, 9:00 a.m., 461 Main Capitol
By Elly Henry, PLS
The committee met to consider a bill and the nomination of Acting Secretary of the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, Cindy Dunn.
SB 513 McGarrigle, Thomas - (PN 463) Amends the Solid Waste Management Act in residual waste, further providing for transportation of residual waste; providing for definitions; and abrogating a regulation. The department may not prohibit the vehicular transportation of leachate discharged from a collection and handling system of landfill to an offsite facility for the treatment of the leachate. Effective in 60 days. - The bill was unanimously reported as committed.
Chairman Gene Yaw (R-Lycoming) explained that SB 513 addresses a problem that can occur during or following occasions of heavy rainfall, when leachate facilities become overburdened and are forced to transport the leachate elsewhere. He added that Sen. Thomas McGarrigle (R-Delaware), the bill’s sponsor, has a landfill in his district that faces this problem, and is among those that need the relief of land transport in order to continue to operate normally during exigent times.
Sen. Elder Vogel (R-Beaver) questioned whether the bill applies to private facilities as well as municipal facilities. The chairman clarified that the bill applies to both.
The committee then considered the nomination of Acting Secretary of the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources (DCNR), Cindy Dunn. The nomination was unanimously reported.
Sen. Pat Vance (R-Cumberland) introduced Dunn as a constituent with whom she has a long history, from her time at Audubon Pennsylvania and the Alliance for the Chesapeake Bay, to decade-long work with DCNR under three administrations. According to Sen. Vance, Dunn is an ideal candidate with far-reaching knowledge of conservation issues.
Dunn thanked the committee and told them that her “vision for Pennsylvania” is to make DCNR the best conservation agency in the country. She affirmed that they are primed to be just that, with a strong and deep legacy and history of conservation. She lauded the state’s park system, forests, and grants program that allows the Department to reach all cities and communities in the Commonwealth. By working with the legislature, she feels there is much room for expansion and advancement. There is great economic opportunity, both in tourism and in the forest products industry, as well as the gas industry, which is already established on state lands, Dunn said.
Chairman Yaw noted that he had questions oriented around Article one, Section 27 of the Pennsylvania Constitution: The people have a right to clean air, pure water, and to the preservation of the natural, scenic, historic and esthetic values of the environment. Pennsylvania’s public natural resources are the common property of all the people, including generations yet to come. As trustee of these resources, the Commonwealth shall conserve and maintain them for the benefit of all the people.
His concerns are that “all the people” is not a term necessary applicable in the case of state lands. He noted, too, that “economy” and “environment” are not mutually exclusive terms; that state lands must be used wisely, but there are economic opportunities not being capitalized on. He noted in particular, drawing in owners of ATVs, despite the fact that certain groups of people may object. To his understanding, there are 160,000 registered ATVs in Pennsylvania that could be utilizing DCNR state lands. However, there are only 250 miles of state trails with ATV access. He posited that adjustments could be made to tap into this multi-billion dollar industry.
Dunn agreed that large ATV parks are tourist destinations for that constituency and economic generators for the state. She explained that these parks are often formed above abandoned mines, and that the ultimate result is improvement to the environment. She said Pennsylvania currently has two such parks. Dunn feels the next big opportunity lies in the southwest portion of the state, where there are a number of abandoned mines, and she has spoken with legislators to that end. She believes that promoting ATV use as a true recreation by providing these destinations as an opportunity to travel would benefit the economy. She noted that the park in Northumberland County also caters to other off-road vehicles and draws ATV enthusiasts from New Jersey. Dunn would like to improve park trail heads for ease of access to all of these vehicles.
Sen. Vogel would like to help DCNR find an appropriate area in Western Pennsylvania, noting that many of these ATV owners travel to West Virginia to take advantage of their parks. He would also like to see enhancements in the form of overnight facilities surrounding existing state parks.
Chairman Yaw is also concerned about use of state lands. It has come to his attention that DCNR entered into a contract with a company called Crown Castle in 2011 to lease cell towers on state-owned properties. He noted 496 such towers are currently being managed by Crown Castle. Under that contract, the company can lease, build new towers subject to DCNR’s approval, and have other allowances. There are other contractors, who were grandfathered in and also have towers on DCNR land. One of these contractors wished to improve his 48 year-old tower, and reached out to the Chairman. The State Police had approached him seeking to put an antenna on a tower in the area, and the DCNR tower was full. DCNR denied the contractor’s request to build a new tower. They argued that his tower is 220 feet tall, theirs is 250 feet tall, and were he to build a new tower, it could only be 190 feet tall. This height is based on guidelines issued by DCNR in 2000, it was explained. The Chairman’s concern is that it appears DCNR is directly competing against private industry. Dunn responded that she was unfamiliar with the contract, but would look into it. She followed that oftentimes DCNR towers are built in response to local emergency management communication needs.
The Chairman then broached Dunn’s prior employment as CEO of PennFuture. While there, a document was produced and issued in January 2013 called “A Fresh Start for Pennsylvania.” The study included reference to Loyalsock Forest, which is located in his district. The forest’s mineral rights are owned privately and have been leased, he explained, noting that there is major opposition to drilling the land. One concern issued in the PennFuture report was a recommendation to “use all legal means possible to stymie the drilling on the property.” There have been several drilling proposals offered, one of which was crafted by then-Secretary of DCNR John Quigley, which would allow for drilling on the land as long as there was no surface disturbance. The Chairman noted that there is legal term, called SLAPP litigation - Strategic Litigation Against Public Participation, and it seems to him that the report’s recommendation is the reverse of SLAPP litigation: public litigation against private rights. Since the report was issued while Dunn was CEO, his concern is that she may not respect private rights. He contends that there are hundreds of years of legal history that set the precedent that subsurface rights are the dominant rights, and surface land must comply with that. He further expressed concerns regarding the money being spent by DCNR on this and similar lawsuits.
Dunn responded that DCNR has yet to begin discussing Loyalsock; it will be a dialogue handled in the governor’s Office of General Counsel and Policy. She remarked that the forest in question has a “mosaic of ownership” that makes the issue a complex one. She also assured the Chairman that the two companies wishing to drill are not pressing the Department, and are patient with the slow process.
Minority Chairman John Yudichak (D-Luzerne) commented that, over the years, money from the Oil and Gas Lease Fund has been used to run DCNR day-to-day operations when it should have been used to purchase subsurface rights and asked how that will change with this administration.
Dunn replied that putting funds back into DCNR’s general fund budget is something they spoke of at the budget hearings. DCNR has a tremendous backlog of infrastructure needs, she said. The Oil and Gas Lease Fund money currently being used for operations could be well used and well vested in infrastructure and the parks. In the proposed 2015-16 budget, the governor has included $20 million in additional DCNR funding.
Chairman Yudichak then spoke to the problem of access to the parks for first responders and other emergency personnel, and asked Dunn if there was a public safety plan in motion. He also asked that the park officials work with emergency responders. He then thanked Dunn for her help in seeing the passage of SB 699. Dunn said the department does a complete review of safety measures and is always trying to find ways to improve.
Sen. Scott Hutchinson (R-Venango) commented that he believes that state-owned parks and forest are an asset for multiple uses. Trails are very important: horseback trails, bicycle trails, ATV trails, etc. Timbering is also an important part of state forests, allowing access to the forests and keeping them healthy with necessary tree removal.
Sen. Hutchinson also said that he has been receiving many questions regarding people coming into upper levels of the administration from “high places” like Dunn’s role at PennFuture. He claims that the large number of high profile appointments of people similar to her makes people “uncomfortable.” He questioned what would happen if PennFuture, for example, applied for some sort of DCNR grant.
Dunn replied that DCNR has a well-vetted ethics policy. Anyone who handles grants in any capacity must sign an ethics form. As soon as a grant application is received, it is immediately reviewed for potential conflicts. PennFuture is not on the list of grants they have received; were they to apply, she would recuse herself. She would also recuse herself if a PennFuture competitor applied for a grant. Recusals would extend to lower-level employees of DCNR, who are former PennFuture employees, as well as their relatives and spouses.
Sen. Hutchinson then questioned the number of former PennFuture employees that are now with the Department, contending that he has had constituents comment that there “seems to be a heavy weight there.” He asked if DCNR is planning to hire additional former employees. Dunn replied that they have received no applications, as such, but it is too early to say for sure. She also reminded Sen. Hutchinson that some former PennFuture employees may have joined DCNR many years ago, and served in various roles and capacities well before her appointment. Sen. Hutchinson clarified that the chief concern is that Dunn (or others) might be bringing a direct PennFuture agenda into state government. Looking at the bigger picture, people are concerned that these practices will span across or affect multiple departments. Dunn reiterated that some of those he is referring to have not been employed by PennFuture for a long time. She said there is no set or secret agenda; the website is also very transparent, allowing anyone to see who is working on what project(s). The Department’s goals are diffuse, not set, she added.
Chairman Yaw compared Dunn’s experience as CEO with PennFuture to his own as a lawyer - i.e. that, as a lawyer, you must represent your client to the best of your ability. As CEO, Dunn had to represent that organization and their interests. However, now that they serve in public roles, their orientation has to change. He cautioned her to exercise independent judgment, even if her decisions go against those of PennFuture.