Post by pfsc on Mar 26, 2015 12:13:29 GMT -5
Senate Appropriations Committee budget hearing with DEP
3/25/15, 9:30 a.m., Hearing Room 1, North Office Building
By Mike Howells, PLS
The committee held a budget hearing with the Department of Environmental Protection, represented by acting secretary John Quigley and Dana Aunkst, Deputy Secretary for Field Operations.
Sen. Yaw, chairman of the Senate Environmental Resources and Energy Committee, asked about the proposed hire of 50 employees for gas drilling enforcement, and what they would be doing. Sec. Quigley acknowledged DEP has received a five percent increase in the governor’s proposed budget, and said the new staff would be involved in enforcement and oversight functions to heighten the rate of unconventional gas well inspections from two to six, which is what they feel should be the recommended rate. Sen. Yaw noted in 2011 there was a rig count of 140 and the most current numbers are 47 or less. Sec. Quigley said the rig count is not necessarily the best indicator of drilling activity. He said the industry can drill “a lot more wells with a lot fewer rigs.” He pointed out the number of wells drilled has continued to increase in recent years. He acknowledged in some cases it is on the same sites, but pointed out they still require inspection.
Sen. Yaw discussed pending Chapter 78 regulations and remarked under the enabling act the department is supposed to share them with the standing committees upon their completion. Sec. Quigley confirmed that is correct and reported they are not yet complete. He advised the public comment period will start April 4 and go for 30 days, in conjunction with advisory board meetings.
Sen. Yaw pointed out there were a number of changes made as a result of 24,000 comments on the initial drafts, and suggested a public hearing may be valuable. Sec. Quigley said there were nine public hearings over the course of the drafting period for the regulations, and at this point there are no plans to hold more, though there will be opportunities for additional public input. Sen. Yaw recommended further expanding the comment period given the large number of initial comments. Sec. Quigley reminded the committee the regulation process has been ongoing for four years. “We need to get these done,” he said, but acknowledged he would consider adding additional time as long as the regulations come in under the two-year deadline.
Discussing the governor’s proposed severance tax, Sen. Yaw inquired where the $2.97 per unit floor price per thousand cubic feet was derived. Sec. Quigley said it was in part drawn up to ensure sufficient revenue for education funding. He said establishing a floor price is not without precedent in Pennsylvania law, particularly related to gasoline, and also noted gas prices “have nowhere to go but up.” Sen. Yaw contended the comparison to gasoline is not ideal and remarked he has questions whether it is even constitutional to do. He suggested “it is an open invitation to ask the industry to leave.” Sec. Quigley said the proposal calls for a statewide average price based on quarterly calculations. He added a lot can happen in the time the proposal would become effective.
Sen. Yaw discussed another aspect of the bill, which caps the impact fee at $123 million. Sec. Quigley contended the figure is $225 million. Sen. Yaw said the local share would be the figure he used. Sec. Quigley expressed his understanding which sets the share at the highest level see under the impact fee. Sen. Yaw remarked it is a cap and therefore does not anticipate higher gas prices. Sec. Quigley acknowledged that is correct and noted the crux of the tax is to fund education.
Sen. Teplitz discussed the state of the Susquehanna River and said the Fish and Boat Commission (PBFC) believes it should be listed as impaired given the condition of its small mouth bass, and the previous administration’s environmental officials disagreed. Sec. Quigley said the health of the Susquehanna is of central importance to the state. “We have to make sure that that asset is protected,” he said, and reported several conversations with John Arway, executive director of the PFBC, have already occurred and the department will be partnering with the commission on a new scientific study. He said in consultation with the commission and the results of the study they will review the state of the river next year. Sec. Quigley emphasized the department must rely on science for guidance. He said climate change, the condition of feeder system and other factors all play a role.
Sen. Ward followed up on the employee issue at the department and asked if there have been cases of insufficient oversight. Sec. Quigley said the need is based on several factors, including a decrease in complement of 14 percent at the department over the last six years and ongoing increases in wells throughout the state. He noted the number of environmental violations is declining, which he characterized as a function of DEP’s ability to be on-site. Sen. Ward said she would be interested in seeing how Pennsylvania ranks among the states in its number of states. Sec. Quigley said they have the most inspectors and are the second highest gas-producing state behind Texas. He contended Pennsylvania requires a higher level of vigilance given its ecosystem compared to Texas.
Sen. Ward said the local share should not be capped, and said as drilling does increase local communities should be fairly compensated.
Sen. Ward discussed the proposed regulations from the department that would affect conventional drilling, and asked what input has been like. Sec. Quigley said the provisions related to conventional drilling are a response to “facts on the ground.” He noted they have created a conventional drilling technical advisory board to focus on that aspect of the industry. He confirmed he is interested in dealing with the issues raised by Sen. Ward and by groups like the Pennsylvania Independent Oil and Gas Association.
Sen. Baker spoke to the severance tax proposal and discussed the prohibition against drillers passing on costs to landowners. She said there have been differing opinions from the Attorney General and others on whether it is possible. Sec. Quigley noted DEP was not involved in the drafting of the bill and said that is a question for the Secretary of Revenue. He said the governor’s intent was indeed to protect landowners. Sen. Baker said it is a contractual issue and will be decided in court.
Speaking to the Delaware River Basin and its governing commission, Sen. Baker asked how Pennsylvania’s burden for running the Delaware River Basin Commission (DRBC) compares to the other states involved and the federal government. Sec. Quigley offered to return that information to the committee. He reported his deputy Kelly Heffner is his representative but could say not who the governor has named. Sen. Baker requested the secretary meet with affected landowners along the river basin.
Sen. Baker asked about the new regulations relating to riparian buffers and asked who the department consulted. Sec. Quigley noted Act 62 was passed last October with a 60-day implementation period. Aunkst said the documents out for comment now are technical guidance documents on how to implement the law until the required regulatory provisions are in place. He said their read of the law is that the law itself eliminates the prior regulation’s waiver provisions. Sen. Baker said she does not believe that was ever the public intent. Sec. Quigley offered to work with the senator on the issue.
Sen. Rafferty discussed the need to move gas products and noted his area has seen a large influx of pipelines. He said constituents are not interested in halting their construction but do want more information. He asked if there will be consistency from DEP on interaction with communities as part of the Last Mile initiative. Sec. Quigley noted there are at least a dozen significant pipeline projects underway in Pennsylvania and said DEP needs to get “out in front,” engage with developers and create a shared expectation of what levels of communications are required. He also reported a roundtable discussion is being organized with a variety of stakeholders to work on improving the situation overall.
Sen. Rafferty noted hazardous sites cleanup is level-funded and pointed out there is a growing need in his district. Sec. Quigley said they receive much of that funding from the Capital Stock and Franchise Tax, which is being phased out. He said they expect to continue their level of effort for the time being. After 2016-17, he said, they will need to revisit the issue to determine a funding source going forward.
Sen. Vogel discussed First Energy’s Little Blue Run coal ash impoundment set to be closed in December 2016 and said they have been working since 2013 to get a new permit for the facility, which they need in order to relocate the coal ash elsewhere. He asked for Sec. Quigley’s commitment to help the company navigate the permitting process, which has now been ongoing for several years. Sec. Quigley responded, “I share your concern and I am happy to report that I met with First Energy officials last week in my office, and talked about the process, where we are, and I am also happy to note that the company indicated to me they have no complaints with our handling of the permitting to this point…I absolutely will work closely with the company and try to meet their needs to the greatest extent possible…We are on a track to meet their permitting requirements; I understand they are tight.” He acknowledged, “I can’t give you a date here today. My offer to the company was, if you feel it going off-track, ‘here is my phone number.’ I will stay engaged in this but I am very confident my staff, they understand the importance of this facility.”
Sen. Vogel noted coal-fired plants are still a huge part of the energy landscape in Pennsylvania and asked for commitment on the part of the administration to keep them going. “The answer is yes, senator,” Sec. Quigley said, noting “Pennsylvania gets forty percent of its electricity from coal-fired power.” He went on, “The governor is absolutely committed to maintaining the strength of Pennsylvania’s coal industry and maintain Pennsylvania’s position as a net energy exporter, and to meeting oncoming federal requirements in a way that is Pennsylvania-centric. He absolutely intends to protect the position of coal, and already has had some conversations with the Pennsylvania Coal Alliance about some plans moving forward to not only involve them in our work relative to the federal clean power plan but to perhaps start the conversation and dust off some work that I actually led at DCNR in my previous stint in state government looking at the possibilities and benefits of becoming a first actor in things like carbon capture and storage and utilization…I think that’s worthy target.”
Sen. Vogel continued, asking for details on the state’s response to Section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act. Sec. Quigley remarked, “Once the rule is final, the target is still moving. We don’t have clarity yet on exactly what will come out of the EPA this summer. We are in the design phase right now, in a big stakeholder engagement process, and recognizing the work, the laws that the General Assembly passed last year requiring statewide involvement…we are designing the approach to meeting the goals, and who will be brought to the table, how will that engagement be done.” He said, “I am happy to note that we are one of four states…selected by the National Governor’s Association to receive technical assistance and access to top science and modeling facilities to give us some tools to meet whatever the final mandate is. But we will do that in a very collaborative way.”
Sen. Schwank asked about DEP’s relationship with municipalities, particularly relating to stormwater regulation. Sec. Quigley acknowledged the frustration local municipalities sometimes feel but said DEP does try to work as a partner with them. He said they have to work with municipalities in a transparent way to make sure the regulations are manageable. Sen. Schwank added she hopes the department is looking at innovative ways for relatively low-income jurisdictions to meet Act 537 requirements.
Sen. Schwank related a report showing Pennsylvania farms are not doing what is required to meet the needs of the Chesapeake Bay Watershed and only 30 percent are in compliance. Sec. Quigley acknowledged Pennsylvania is not on track to meet its goals relative to phosphorus and sediment. He confirmed he and the Agriculture secretary are “joined at the hip” on the issue and discussed the need to “reboot” the conversation over the Bay. He said DEP has done great work recently, including a watershed assessment program that will look at impaired watersheds in selected areas of the state. He spoke to the need for partnering with conservation districts and the Farm Bureau as well.
Sen. Wiley emphasized the importance of the department’s commitment to following science. He asked if there is a set date for complying with EPA requirements relative to carbon emissions. Sec. Quigley explained the EPA has decreed that Pennsylvania must cut its carbon emissions by 31 percent by 2030. He said the challenge is doing that while maintaining the state’s legacy industries like coal, and remaining an energy exporter, and expressed the need for a listening tour to receive input from stakeholders.
Sen. Wiley said leaders in his district have been looking closely at offshore wind energy and asked for the department’s perspective. Sec. Quigley said the state’s wind industry is moribund at the moment, with no new development in a number of years. He agreed there is significant potential for offshore wind in the Erie area, but noted there are legal and jurisdictional hurdles involved. He confirmed he is interested to be involved.
Sen. Blake asked about the accuracy of data coming from the drilling industry. Sec. Quigley said he is confident of its accuracy but reported the department has been doing “heroic work with really inadequate systems.” He said the goal is to get to a completely electronic system and reported they are working on a strategic IT plan.
Sen. Blake spoke to an issue in his district relative to an application to a landfill expansion for Keystone Sanitary Landfill. He asked if the department considers proximate landfills in its deliberations and whether the current statutory and regulatory basis is adequate for the decisions. Sec. Quigley said they do consider proximate landfills and reported he does consider the laws and rules involved appropriate. He acknowledged he understands the enormity of the proposal and said he receives emails every day from residents in that district against the proposal. He reported they are in the process of accommodating Sen. Bob Casey’s request to extend the public comment period. He reported they are on step 6 of an 11-step process and are at least a year away from finalizing a decision.
Sen. Blake echoed Sen. Teplitz’s sentiments regarding the Susquehanna and said one of its largest polluters is in his district, dumping tons of iron into the river. He said efforts are underway to finally address the issue. Sec. Quigley said he looks forward to working on it.
Sen. Eichelberger requested details on the alternative energy aspect of the severance tax proposal. Sec. Quigley said it is a bond issue to explore all kinds of alternative energy methods and improvements, including the resuscitation of the solar rebate program, which he called “wildly successful” and a big jobs generator over its nine years. He also noted $25 million of the proposal is directed to Last Mile, which expands access to natural gas. Sen. Eichelberger said in his area, wind remains controversial among environmentalists and said he does not see its value in this part of the world. He said he sees value in tested sources that work, by comparison.
Sen. Eichelberger asked about permit delays at the department and particularly in the southwest with respect to erosion and sediment control permits that are being delayed and requested consistency on their turnaround. Sec. Quigley said he is always interested in hearing such complaints and concerns. He expressed pride at DEP issuing permits within the required amounts of time at a rate of 92 percent, and reported even when a permit is deficient the turnaround is met 82 percent of the time.
Sen. Eichelberger said the 90 inspectors hired previously were paid for by money from the industry. Sec. Quigley clarified it was the last 25. He said the 50 new inspectors proposed would come out of the severance tax.
Sen. Smith discussed Act 537 plans and said flooding is a concern in his district. He asked where DEP is in terms of funding for stream improvement programs, flood mitigation programs and other related initiatives. Sec. Quigley remarked DEP is funding such programs as creatively as possibly given current resources, but spoke to the magnitude of the issue and reported there are billions of dollars in unmet needs. He characterized stormwater management as a “total question mark” and an unfunded mandate. He acknowledged they are working to get their arms around the issue.
Discussing the green building movement in western Pennsylvania, Sen. Smith asked what role DEP can play in further incentivizing that kind of development. Sec. Quigley noted part of the governor’s energy package is aimed directly at energy conservation and other measures for a greener business sector. He said there are some creative financial approaches to facilitate that kind of development, which he said pays for itself.
Sen. Wagner noted DEP inspectors never make appointments in his industry and asked if the same is true for the drilling industry. Sec. Quigley said it is a combination of scheduled and unscheduled appointments. Sen. Wagner said he is totally opposed to any additional inspectors pending some operational reforms, but said scheduling appointments would be a positive step and along with some efficiency improvements that could reduce the need for additional staff. He said he agrees sites should be inspected but expressed doubt whether a tripling of inspections is doable in a year. He emphasized the need to improve the efficiency of the department before adding 50 more inspectors, and asked whether the inspectors are unionized. Sec. Quigley said 70 percent of DEP is unionized and said he suspects inspectors are part of that proportion. Sen. Wagner also requested data on the complement of lawyers in the department and whether they are unionized. Sen. Wagner also speculated there will not be a lot of volatility in the price of gas over the next few years.
Discussing benefit costs of the Department’s operations, Sen. Wagner noted they approach 75 percent. He said it is a common trend among all state departments and said it is “breathtaking,” given that in the private sector they do not exceed fifty percent.
Sen. Vulakovich asked about the severance tax monies to be used for the inspector positions, and said legislators have to depend on the inspectors in the field being honest that there are too many wells to safely manage. He asked why there is a need for 25 more people for the well plugging account. Sec. Quigley explained that is the account through which the inspectors are paid and the new staff are needed to help manage it.
Discussing windmills, Sen. Vulakovich asked where they are concentrated in the state. Sec. Quigley said many are in the Somerset region, and also in the eastern part of the state, with an overall capacity of 350,000 homes.
Sen. Vulakovich asked if the severance tax would effectively be a 15 percent increase over what is currently paid at the wellhead. Sec. Quigley said that does not sound accurate and said Pennsylvania is the only natural gas producing state in the union without a severance tax, and the proposal is modeled on West Virginia’s which falls “squarely in the middle” of the pack in terms of effective rate. He emphasized the severance tax is one part of an overhaul tax reform scheme on the part of the governor. Sen. Vulakovich expressed disagreement with the idea of capping the impact fee, and remarked he cannot see how the various components of the tax come to only a five percent increase. He contended “this is absolutely the wrong time to put a severance tax on the industry.”
Sen. Argall discussed cleanup efforts at illegal tire dumps around the state. He asked for an update on efforts to reach 100 percent. Sec. Quigley could not offer a projection on when the task will be complete, but said they have to-date cleaned up 35 million tires. He assured that the effort will continue.
Sen. Argall noted two ongoing concerns from anthracite coal operators - too much regulation and illegal dumping of foreign coal. Sec. Quigley recounted a meeting with leaders from the anthracite industry and said they need to sit down and gain an understanding of the market dynamics of coal and see if state action can be taken to reduce instances of Russian coal being illegally brought over. He said the best approach for the department with respect to that sector is to stay in ‘listening mode.”
Sen. Argall cited a recent visit from Florida governor Rick Scott, who boasted Florida’s environmental permitting processes that are much faster than in Pennsylvania. Sec. Quigley suggested the figures were inaccurate and said he would put his department’s performance against that of Florida “any day of the week.” He suggested the canard that there is a tradeoff between environmental protection and economic growth has to be dispelled.
Sen. Scavello asked for more details on the riparian buffers issue. Sec. Quigley explained they have tried to implement the letter of the law and have promulgated technical guidance documents to regulate the community in the interim as full regulations are drafted. He said he would be happy to do a “deep dive” with more interested legislators on the issue.
Sen. Scavello requested details on the $4 million cut to the Clean Water Fund. Sec. Quigley called it a reduction in spending authority and said there will be no reduction in effort on that front.
Sen. Scavello reported he is “on the fence” with respect to a possible severance tax, said the impact fee is essentially a tax “no matter how you look at it.” He commented he would like to see natural gas companies make their product available to every citizen in the commonwealth. Sec. Quigley noted the Last Mile initiative to expand commercial and industrial markets. Sen. Scavello discussed the pipeline going through Northampton and said it will be passing through areas where natural gas is not available to residents.
Sen. Greenleaf said denizens of the southeast remain industry in resources development despite a lack of mines or wells. He requested the department keep residents there informed. He asked about a project to take blood samples from people living in the northern tier and compare against people in New York to determine the presence of possible contaminants. He asked if the department would be interested in pursuing that. Sec. Quigley said he would be interested in that given their charge of protecting public health and speaking with the Department of Health and Physician General on the matter.
Sen. Greenleaf discussed correspondence from a watershed in his district having trouble participating in a variety of ecological grant programs owing to poor communication among the departments and agencies offering them. Sec. Quigley requested more information on the issue so he can follow up.
Sen. Greenleaf asked about alternative fuel incentive grants (AFIG) and natural gas vehicle programs. Sec. Quigley offered that the AFIG program is funded by a quarter-mill tax program and is ongoing. He said he would provide full details to the committee.
Sen. Yaw suggested that in terms of Pennsylvania not having a severance tax, it is perhaps more correct that 49 other states haven’t been smart enough to follow the commonwealth’s lead with respect to an impact fee.
Referring to pipeline inspections, Sen. Yaw asked how the department integrates with the efforts of the Public Utility Commission (PUC). Sec. Quigley said DEP is not interested in taking over any current functions of the PUC. In terms of collaborative planning, he emphasized he would want the PUC at the table, however.
To the bond for solar and wind efforts, Sen. Yaw commented if it were not tax money he is not sure where those two industries would be. He suggested it may be more beneficial to direct some of that money towards efforts to improve the Chesapeake Bay. In addition he noted his district contains the far northern parts of the Susquehanna watershed and one of its concerns is that they do not end up paying for the “sins downriver.” Sec. Quigley responded that within Pennsylvania there are various sources of problems that impact the Chesapeake. He indicated it is not just agriculture but stormwater and other factors. He acknowledged stormwater management remains an unfunded mandate and said the department is continually looking at ways to address the problem. He remarked targeted technical assistance for farmers is a big issue.
Sen. Eichelberger expressed concern with the wind energy which he described as “not very efficient”. He commented, “If it was not subsidized, it would not exist.” He wanted to know how much energy wind mills produce in the Commonwealth. Sec. Quigley responded that he will have to get the information for the committee. He told Sen. Eichelberger, “I will tell you that you need to have an energy portfolio and you need to balance that portfolio. We can’t put all of our eggs is any one particular basket.” He added, “Every increment of low emission or no emission energy generation is going to be important.” Sec. Quigley explained, “While the total amount of energy generated by wind in Pennsylvania is small compared to coal, it is important.” Sen. Eichelberger said, “I don’t think it works. If it worked I would be for it.” He then asked if the Commonwealth is investing in nuclear. Sec. Quigley responded, “No.”
Sen. Ward commented that the natural gas industry employs many people in Pennsylvania and they have been paying taxes. She noted the commonwealth gets an impact fee, about which Sen. Ward said, “I guess we should have called it a tax because essentially that is what it is.” She described Pennsylvania as “a very high tax state.” Sen. Ward argued that “any regulations that you do can hurt this industry we depend on.” She expressed concern about regulations listing species that are not already on the protected species list. Sen. Ward wanted to know if the department has the authority to determine the protections for non-listed species. Quigley explained that issue is not within the department’s jurisdiction. Sen. Ward asked where that regulation would come from if not DEP. Sec. Quigley said it would be the Game Commission and the Fish and Boat Commission.
Sen. Blake asked Sec. Quigley about the end date for the Chapter 78 regulations. Sec. Quigley responded that it is March of 2016. Sen. Blake commented that it his understanding that the regulations are being formed based on the best practices being used by the larger producers as way to level the playing field for everyone. Sec. Quigley responded, “That’s a fair assessment.” He explained, “We are looking to the best operators in this industry. Companies that are already performing at a high level and embracing some of those practices.” According to Sec. Quigley, there are 67 companies doing unconventional wells right now. He added, “Using the best practices, I think is the way we need to go.” Sen. Blake asked if it is true that the Commonwealth is not adequately compensated for cleaning up abandoned mines. Sec. Quigley observed, “Pennsylvania always feels somewhat behind the eight ball when it comes to funding for abandoned mine reclamation.” He noted, “The need continues to outpace the available resources.” Sec. Quigley pointed out that it is an ongoing effort and “we have ongoing conversations with Washington to make sure we are getting every last dollar available and due to Pennsylvania.” He added, “It is an annual rite we go through every year.”
Sen. Vulakovich commented that during his service in the House and Senate he has learned the importance of balance when it comes to protecting the Commonwealth’s environment. Regarding the gas industry, he asked Sec. Quigley “do we pretty much have best practices better than any other state? “ Sec. Quigley responded, “I think we are right up there.” He added, “I believe every governor in every gas producing state says ‘our regs are the best; our standards are the best.’” Returning to the theme of the importance of balance, Sen. Vulakovich expressed concern that the Commonwealth not over regulate. He also argued that coal must continue to be part of the energy portfolio.
Sen. Baker noted that much has been written over the past few years about reductions in the department’s overall state funding levels. She commented that she believes there is misnomer over how DEP’s complement is funded. Sen. Baker said it her understanding it is paid for by the fees industry pays. She wanted to know the number of employees at the department and how many are paid for by existing fees and not state taxpayers’ dollars. Sec. Quigley explained that about 21 percent of the department’s operating budget is General Fund; 28 percent is federal funding; and 51 percent is special accounts or special funds, fees, fines and penalties. He further explained that the water deputate and mine safety is General Fund and “they have suffered some of the biggest reductions.” Sec. Quigley also said, “We are obliged by many of our regulations to revisit our fee structure every two or three years and we are in the process of doing that again across the board.” He explained, “The intent here is the regulatory function being supported by fees received from the regulated community.” Sen. Baker then asked about the department doing a long-term air monitoring analysis and a forthcoming report. She wanted to know when the report will be released. Sec. Quigley pointed out there are a couple of reports and he wanted to know which one. Sen. Baker said it is the one related to natural gas. Sec. Quigley explained that one was done in Washington County. He said he would check into its status.
Chairman Browne commented on the importance of rail safety and the transporting of oil across the Commonwealth. He asked if that is something DEP will be involved with. Sec. Quigley pointed out the governor has written to the President asking for stronger federal support for rail safety to deal with this issue. He emphasized the need to look globally at the safety implications. Sec. Quigley explained that there has been a tabletop exercise with the Governor at the Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency to look at the implications of those kinds of emergencies. He added, “I can tell you the governor is very focused on this issue.” Chairman Browne noted the Auditor General has expressed concerns with some of the Commonwealth’s economic development programs that are not producing the job numbers that the applicants indicated would be created. Chairman Browne asked Sec. Quigley if he has consulted with the Auditor General on his concerns. Sec. Quigley responded that he has not but he is “willing to do so.”
Regarding the expansion of pipelines for distribution of energy, Chairman Browne asked what the department is doing to increase capacity and educating the public. Sec. Quigley explained that the pipelines fall more under the purview of the Public Utility Commission but the department has been encouraging the pipeline development companies to be more transparent about their plans and engage communities “in a meaningful way”. He noted he has spoken with two of the bigger companies who told him they intend to “go above and beyond” the minimum requirements.
Sec. Quigley told the committee he is looking to expand the department’s capacity. He said that the area that provides “the biggest bang for the buck” is in the information technology section. Sec. Quigley added that he would like to see the department develop electronic permitting. He also said one of his goals is to “wean the agency off paper.”
Chairman Browne commented that he agreed with Sen. Vulakovich on the importance of balance in any environmental regulations. He also advocated for consistency and sustainability.
3/25/15, 9:30 a.m., Hearing Room 1, North Office Building
By Mike Howells, PLS
The committee held a budget hearing with the Department of Environmental Protection, represented by acting secretary John Quigley and Dana Aunkst, Deputy Secretary for Field Operations.
Sen. Yaw, chairman of the Senate Environmental Resources and Energy Committee, asked about the proposed hire of 50 employees for gas drilling enforcement, and what they would be doing. Sec. Quigley acknowledged DEP has received a five percent increase in the governor’s proposed budget, and said the new staff would be involved in enforcement and oversight functions to heighten the rate of unconventional gas well inspections from two to six, which is what they feel should be the recommended rate. Sen. Yaw noted in 2011 there was a rig count of 140 and the most current numbers are 47 or less. Sec. Quigley said the rig count is not necessarily the best indicator of drilling activity. He said the industry can drill “a lot more wells with a lot fewer rigs.” He pointed out the number of wells drilled has continued to increase in recent years. He acknowledged in some cases it is on the same sites, but pointed out they still require inspection.
Sen. Yaw discussed pending Chapter 78 regulations and remarked under the enabling act the department is supposed to share them with the standing committees upon their completion. Sec. Quigley confirmed that is correct and reported they are not yet complete. He advised the public comment period will start April 4 and go for 30 days, in conjunction with advisory board meetings.
Sen. Yaw pointed out there were a number of changes made as a result of 24,000 comments on the initial drafts, and suggested a public hearing may be valuable. Sec. Quigley said there were nine public hearings over the course of the drafting period for the regulations, and at this point there are no plans to hold more, though there will be opportunities for additional public input. Sen. Yaw recommended further expanding the comment period given the large number of initial comments. Sec. Quigley reminded the committee the regulation process has been ongoing for four years. “We need to get these done,” he said, but acknowledged he would consider adding additional time as long as the regulations come in under the two-year deadline.
Discussing the governor’s proposed severance tax, Sen. Yaw inquired where the $2.97 per unit floor price per thousand cubic feet was derived. Sec. Quigley said it was in part drawn up to ensure sufficient revenue for education funding. He said establishing a floor price is not without precedent in Pennsylvania law, particularly related to gasoline, and also noted gas prices “have nowhere to go but up.” Sen. Yaw contended the comparison to gasoline is not ideal and remarked he has questions whether it is even constitutional to do. He suggested “it is an open invitation to ask the industry to leave.” Sec. Quigley said the proposal calls for a statewide average price based on quarterly calculations. He added a lot can happen in the time the proposal would become effective.
Sen. Yaw discussed another aspect of the bill, which caps the impact fee at $123 million. Sec. Quigley contended the figure is $225 million. Sen. Yaw said the local share would be the figure he used. Sec. Quigley expressed his understanding which sets the share at the highest level see under the impact fee. Sen. Yaw remarked it is a cap and therefore does not anticipate higher gas prices. Sec. Quigley acknowledged that is correct and noted the crux of the tax is to fund education.
Sen. Teplitz discussed the state of the Susquehanna River and said the Fish and Boat Commission (PBFC) believes it should be listed as impaired given the condition of its small mouth bass, and the previous administration’s environmental officials disagreed. Sec. Quigley said the health of the Susquehanna is of central importance to the state. “We have to make sure that that asset is protected,” he said, and reported several conversations with John Arway, executive director of the PFBC, have already occurred and the department will be partnering with the commission on a new scientific study. He said in consultation with the commission and the results of the study they will review the state of the river next year. Sec. Quigley emphasized the department must rely on science for guidance. He said climate change, the condition of feeder system and other factors all play a role.
Sen. Ward followed up on the employee issue at the department and asked if there have been cases of insufficient oversight. Sec. Quigley said the need is based on several factors, including a decrease in complement of 14 percent at the department over the last six years and ongoing increases in wells throughout the state. He noted the number of environmental violations is declining, which he characterized as a function of DEP’s ability to be on-site. Sen. Ward said she would be interested in seeing how Pennsylvania ranks among the states in its number of states. Sec. Quigley said they have the most inspectors and are the second highest gas-producing state behind Texas. He contended Pennsylvania requires a higher level of vigilance given its ecosystem compared to Texas.
Sen. Ward said the local share should not be capped, and said as drilling does increase local communities should be fairly compensated.
Sen. Ward discussed the proposed regulations from the department that would affect conventional drilling, and asked what input has been like. Sec. Quigley said the provisions related to conventional drilling are a response to “facts on the ground.” He noted they have created a conventional drilling technical advisory board to focus on that aspect of the industry. He confirmed he is interested in dealing with the issues raised by Sen. Ward and by groups like the Pennsylvania Independent Oil and Gas Association.
Sen. Baker spoke to the severance tax proposal and discussed the prohibition against drillers passing on costs to landowners. She said there have been differing opinions from the Attorney General and others on whether it is possible. Sec. Quigley noted DEP was not involved in the drafting of the bill and said that is a question for the Secretary of Revenue. He said the governor’s intent was indeed to protect landowners. Sen. Baker said it is a contractual issue and will be decided in court.
Speaking to the Delaware River Basin and its governing commission, Sen. Baker asked how Pennsylvania’s burden for running the Delaware River Basin Commission (DRBC) compares to the other states involved and the federal government. Sec. Quigley offered to return that information to the committee. He reported his deputy Kelly Heffner is his representative but could say not who the governor has named. Sen. Baker requested the secretary meet with affected landowners along the river basin.
Sen. Baker asked about the new regulations relating to riparian buffers and asked who the department consulted. Sec. Quigley noted Act 62 was passed last October with a 60-day implementation period. Aunkst said the documents out for comment now are technical guidance documents on how to implement the law until the required regulatory provisions are in place. He said their read of the law is that the law itself eliminates the prior regulation’s waiver provisions. Sen. Baker said she does not believe that was ever the public intent. Sec. Quigley offered to work with the senator on the issue.
Sen. Rafferty discussed the need to move gas products and noted his area has seen a large influx of pipelines. He said constituents are not interested in halting their construction but do want more information. He asked if there will be consistency from DEP on interaction with communities as part of the Last Mile initiative. Sec. Quigley noted there are at least a dozen significant pipeline projects underway in Pennsylvania and said DEP needs to get “out in front,” engage with developers and create a shared expectation of what levels of communications are required. He also reported a roundtable discussion is being organized with a variety of stakeholders to work on improving the situation overall.
Sen. Rafferty noted hazardous sites cleanup is level-funded and pointed out there is a growing need in his district. Sec. Quigley said they receive much of that funding from the Capital Stock and Franchise Tax, which is being phased out. He said they expect to continue their level of effort for the time being. After 2016-17, he said, they will need to revisit the issue to determine a funding source going forward.
Sen. Vogel discussed First Energy’s Little Blue Run coal ash impoundment set to be closed in December 2016 and said they have been working since 2013 to get a new permit for the facility, which they need in order to relocate the coal ash elsewhere. He asked for Sec. Quigley’s commitment to help the company navigate the permitting process, which has now been ongoing for several years. Sec. Quigley responded, “I share your concern and I am happy to report that I met with First Energy officials last week in my office, and talked about the process, where we are, and I am also happy to note that the company indicated to me they have no complaints with our handling of the permitting to this point…I absolutely will work closely with the company and try to meet their needs to the greatest extent possible…We are on a track to meet their permitting requirements; I understand they are tight.” He acknowledged, “I can’t give you a date here today. My offer to the company was, if you feel it going off-track, ‘here is my phone number.’ I will stay engaged in this but I am very confident my staff, they understand the importance of this facility.”
Sen. Vogel noted coal-fired plants are still a huge part of the energy landscape in Pennsylvania and asked for commitment on the part of the administration to keep them going. “The answer is yes, senator,” Sec. Quigley said, noting “Pennsylvania gets forty percent of its electricity from coal-fired power.” He went on, “The governor is absolutely committed to maintaining the strength of Pennsylvania’s coal industry and maintain Pennsylvania’s position as a net energy exporter, and to meeting oncoming federal requirements in a way that is Pennsylvania-centric. He absolutely intends to protect the position of coal, and already has had some conversations with the Pennsylvania Coal Alliance about some plans moving forward to not only involve them in our work relative to the federal clean power plan but to perhaps start the conversation and dust off some work that I actually led at DCNR in my previous stint in state government looking at the possibilities and benefits of becoming a first actor in things like carbon capture and storage and utilization…I think that’s worthy target.”
Sen. Vogel continued, asking for details on the state’s response to Section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act. Sec. Quigley remarked, “Once the rule is final, the target is still moving. We don’t have clarity yet on exactly what will come out of the EPA this summer. We are in the design phase right now, in a big stakeholder engagement process, and recognizing the work, the laws that the General Assembly passed last year requiring statewide involvement…we are designing the approach to meeting the goals, and who will be brought to the table, how will that engagement be done.” He said, “I am happy to note that we are one of four states…selected by the National Governor’s Association to receive technical assistance and access to top science and modeling facilities to give us some tools to meet whatever the final mandate is. But we will do that in a very collaborative way.”
Sen. Schwank asked about DEP’s relationship with municipalities, particularly relating to stormwater regulation. Sec. Quigley acknowledged the frustration local municipalities sometimes feel but said DEP does try to work as a partner with them. He said they have to work with municipalities in a transparent way to make sure the regulations are manageable. Sen. Schwank added she hopes the department is looking at innovative ways for relatively low-income jurisdictions to meet Act 537 requirements.
Sen. Schwank related a report showing Pennsylvania farms are not doing what is required to meet the needs of the Chesapeake Bay Watershed and only 30 percent are in compliance. Sec. Quigley acknowledged Pennsylvania is not on track to meet its goals relative to phosphorus and sediment. He confirmed he and the Agriculture secretary are “joined at the hip” on the issue and discussed the need to “reboot” the conversation over the Bay. He said DEP has done great work recently, including a watershed assessment program that will look at impaired watersheds in selected areas of the state. He spoke to the need for partnering with conservation districts and the Farm Bureau as well.
Sen. Wiley emphasized the importance of the department’s commitment to following science. He asked if there is a set date for complying with EPA requirements relative to carbon emissions. Sec. Quigley explained the EPA has decreed that Pennsylvania must cut its carbon emissions by 31 percent by 2030. He said the challenge is doing that while maintaining the state’s legacy industries like coal, and remaining an energy exporter, and expressed the need for a listening tour to receive input from stakeholders.
Sen. Wiley said leaders in his district have been looking closely at offshore wind energy and asked for the department’s perspective. Sec. Quigley said the state’s wind industry is moribund at the moment, with no new development in a number of years. He agreed there is significant potential for offshore wind in the Erie area, but noted there are legal and jurisdictional hurdles involved. He confirmed he is interested to be involved.
Sen. Blake asked about the accuracy of data coming from the drilling industry. Sec. Quigley said he is confident of its accuracy but reported the department has been doing “heroic work with really inadequate systems.” He said the goal is to get to a completely electronic system and reported they are working on a strategic IT plan.
Sen. Blake spoke to an issue in his district relative to an application to a landfill expansion for Keystone Sanitary Landfill. He asked if the department considers proximate landfills in its deliberations and whether the current statutory and regulatory basis is adequate for the decisions. Sec. Quigley said they do consider proximate landfills and reported he does consider the laws and rules involved appropriate. He acknowledged he understands the enormity of the proposal and said he receives emails every day from residents in that district against the proposal. He reported they are in the process of accommodating Sen. Bob Casey’s request to extend the public comment period. He reported they are on step 6 of an 11-step process and are at least a year away from finalizing a decision.
Sen. Blake echoed Sen. Teplitz’s sentiments regarding the Susquehanna and said one of its largest polluters is in his district, dumping tons of iron into the river. He said efforts are underway to finally address the issue. Sec. Quigley said he looks forward to working on it.
Sen. Eichelberger requested details on the alternative energy aspect of the severance tax proposal. Sec. Quigley said it is a bond issue to explore all kinds of alternative energy methods and improvements, including the resuscitation of the solar rebate program, which he called “wildly successful” and a big jobs generator over its nine years. He also noted $25 million of the proposal is directed to Last Mile, which expands access to natural gas. Sen. Eichelberger said in his area, wind remains controversial among environmentalists and said he does not see its value in this part of the world. He said he sees value in tested sources that work, by comparison.
Sen. Eichelberger asked about permit delays at the department and particularly in the southwest with respect to erosion and sediment control permits that are being delayed and requested consistency on their turnaround. Sec. Quigley said he is always interested in hearing such complaints and concerns. He expressed pride at DEP issuing permits within the required amounts of time at a rate of 92 percent, and reported even when a permit is deficient the turnaround is met 82 percent of the time.
Sen. Eichelberger said the 90 inspectors hired previously were paid for by money from the industry. Sec. Quigley clarified it was the last 25. He said the 50 new inspectors proposed would come out of the severance tax.
Sen. Smith discussed Act 537 plans and said flooding is a concern in his district. He asked where DEP is in terms of funding for stream improvement programs, flood mitigation programs and other related initiatives. Sec. Quigley remarked DEP is funding such programs as creatively as possibly given current resources, but spoke to the magnitude of the issue and reported there are billions of dollars in unmet needs. He characterized stormwater management as a “total question mark” and an unfunded mandate. He acknowledged they are working to get their arms around the issue.
Discussing the green building movement in western Pennsylvania, Sen. Smith asked what role DEP can play in further incentivizing that kind of development. Sec. Quigley noted part of the governor’s energy package is aimed directly at energy conservation and other measures for a greener business sector. He said there are some creative financial approaches to facilitate that kind of development, which he said pays for itself.
Sen. Wagner noted DEP inspectors never make appointments in his industry and asked if the same is true for the drilling industry. Sec. Quigley said it is a combination of scheduled and unscheduled appointments. Sen. Wagner said he is totally opposed to any additional inspectors pending some operational reforms, but said scheduling appointments would be a positive step and along with some efficiency improvements that could reduce the need for additional staff. He said he agrees sites should be inspected but expressed doubt whether a tripling of inspections is doable in a year. He emphasized the need to improve the efficiency of the department before adding 50 more inspectors, and asked whether the inspectors are unionized. Sec. Quigley said 70 percent of DEP is unionized and said he suspects inspectors are part of that proportion. Sen. Wagner also requested data on the complement of lawyers in the department and whether they are unionized. Sen. Wagner also speculated there will not be a lot of volatility in the price of gas over the next few years.
Discussing benefit costs of the Department’s operations, Sen. Wagner noted they approach 75 percent. He said it is a common trend among all state departments and said it is “breathtaking,” given that in the private sector they do not exceed fifty percent.
Sen. Vulakovich asked about the severance tax monies to be used for the inspector positions, and said legislators have to depend on the inspectors in the field being honest that there are too many wells to safely manage. He asked why there is a need for 25 more people for the well plugging account. Sec. Quigley explained that is the account through which the inspectors are paid and the new staff are needed to help manage it.
Discussing windmills, Sen. Vulakovich asked where they are concentrated in the state. Sec. Quigley said many are in the Somerset region, and also in the eastern part of the state, with an overall capacity of 350,000 homes.
Sen. Vulakovich asked if the severance tax would effectively be a 15 percent increase over what is currently paid at the wellhead. Sec. Quigley said that does not sound accurate and said Pennsylvania is the only natural gas producing state in the union without a severance tax, and the proposal is modeled on West Virginia’s which falls “squarely in the middle” of the pack in terms of effective rate. He emphasized the severance tax is one part of an overhaul tax reform scheme on the part of the governor. Sen. Vulakovich expressed disagreement with the idea of capping the impact fee, and remarked he cannot see how the various components of the tax come to only a five percent increase. He contended “this is absolutely the wrong time to put a severance tax on the industry.”
Sen. Argall discussed cleanup efforts at illegal tire dumps around the state. He asked for an update on efforts to reach 100 percent. Sec. Quigley could not offer a projection on when the task will be complete, but said they have to-date cleaned up 35 million tires. He assured that the effort will continue.
Sen. Argall noted two ongoing concerns from anthracite coal operators - too much regulation and illegal dumping of foreign coal. Sec. Quigley recounted a meeting with leaders from the anthracite industry and said they need to sit down and gain an understanding of the market dynamics of coal and see if state action can be taken to reduce instances of Russian coal being illegally brought over. He said the best approach for the department with respect to that sector is to stay in ‘listening mode.”
Sen. Argall cited a recent visit from Florida governor Rick Scott, who boasted Florida’s environmental permitting processes that are much faster than in Pennsylvania. Sec. Quigley suggested the figures were inaccurate and said he would put his department’s performance against that of Florida “any day of the week.” He suggested the canard that there is a tradeoff between environmental protection and economic growth has to be dispelled.
Sen. Scavello asked for more details on the riparian buffers issue. Sec. Quigley explained they have tried to implement the letter of the law and have promulgated technical guidance documents to regulate the community in the interim as full regulations are drafted. He said he would be happy to do a “deep dive” with more interested legislators on the issue.
Sen. Scavello requested details on the $4 million cut to the Clean Water Fund. Sec. Quigley called it a reduction in spending authority and said there will be no reduction in effort on that front.
Sen. Scavello reported he is “on the fence” with respect to a possible severance tax, said the impact fee is essentially a tax “no matter how you look at it.” He commented he would like to see natural gas companies make their product available to every citizen in the commonwealth. Sec. Quigley noted the Last Mile initiative to expand commercial and industrial markets. Sen. Scavello discussed the pipeline going through Northampton and said it will be passing through areas where natural gas is not available to residents.
Sen. Greenleaf said denizens of the southeast remain industry in resources development despite a lack of mines or wells. He requested the department keep residents there informed. He asked about a project to take blood samples from people living in the northern tier and compare against people in New York to determine the presence of possible contaminants. He asked if the department would be interested in pursuing that. Sec. Quigley said he would be interested in that given their charge of protecting public health and speaking with the Department of Health and Physician General on the matter.
Sen. Greenleaf discussed correspondence from a watershed in his district having trouble participating in a variety of ecological grant programs owing to poor communication among the departments and agencies offering them. Sec. Quigley requested more information on the issue so he can follow up.
Sen. Greenleaf asked about alternative fuel incentive grants (AFIG) and natural gas vehicle programs. Sec. Quigley offered that the AFIG program is funded by a quarter-mill tax program and is ongoing. He said he would provide full details to the committee.
Sen. Yaw suggested that in terms of Pennsylvania not having a severance tax, it is perhaps more correct that 49 other states haven’t been smart enough to follow the commonwealth’s lead with respect to an impact fee.
Referring to pipeline inspections, Sen. Yaw asked how the department integrates with the efforts of the Public Utility Commission (PUC). Sec. Quigley said DEP is not interested in taking over any current functions of the PUC. In terms of collaborative planning, he emphasized he would want the PUC at the table, however.
To the bond for solar and wind efforts, Sen. Yaw commented if it were not tax money he is not sure where those two industries would be. He suggested it may be more beneficial to direct some of that money towards efforts to improve the Chesapeake Bay. In addition he noted his district contains the far northern parts of the Susquehanna watershed and one of its concerns is that they do not end up paying for the “sins downriver.” Sec. Quigley responded that within Pennsylvania there are various sources of problems that impact the Chesapeake. He indicated it is not just agriculture but stormwater and other factors. He acknowledged stormwater management remains an unfunded mandate and said the department is continually looking at ways to address the problem. He remarked targeted technical assistance for farmers is a big issue.
Sen. Eichelberger expressed concern with the wind energy which he described as “not very efficient”. He commented, “If it was not subsidized, it would not exist.” He wanted to know how much energy wind mills produce in the Commonwealth. Sec. Quigley responded that he will have to get the information for the committee. He told Sen. Eichelberger, “I will tell you that you need to have an energy portfolio and you need to balance that portfolio. We can’t put all of our eggs is any one particular basket.” He added, “Every increment of low emission or no emission energy generation is going to be important.” Sec. Quigley explained, “While the total amount of energy generated by wind in Pennsylvania is small compared to coal, it is important.” Sen. Eichelberger said, “I don’t think it works. If it worked I would be for it.” He then asked if the Commonwealth is investing in nuclear. Sec. Quigley responded, “No.”
Sen. Ward commented that the natural gas industry employs many people in Pennsylvania and they have been paying taxes. She noted the commonwealth gets an impact fee, about which Sen. Ward said, “I guess we should have called it a tax because essentially that is what it is.” She described Pennsylvania as “a very high tax state.” Sen. Ward argued that “any regulations that you do can hurt this industry we depend on.” She expressed concern about regulations listing species that are not already on the protected species list. Sen. Ward wanted to know if the department has the authority to determine the protections for non-listed species. Quigley explained that issue is not within the department’s jurisdiction. Sen. Ward asked where that regulation would come from if not DEP. Sec. Quigley said it would be the Game Commission and the Fish and Boat Commission.
Sen. Blake asked Sec. Quigley about the end date for the Chapter 78 regulations. Sec. Quigley responded that it is March of 2016. Sen. Blake commented that it his understanding that the regulations are being formed based on the best practices being used by the larger producers as way to level the playing field for everyone. Sec. Quigley responded, “That’s a fair assessment.” He explained, “We are looking to the best operators in this industry. Companies that are already performing at a high level and embracing some of those practices.” According to Sec. Quigley, there are 67 companies doing unconventional wells right now. He added, “Using the best practices, I think is the way we need to go.” Sen. Blake asked if it is true that the Commonwealth is not adequately compensated for cleaning up abandoned mines. Sec. Quigley observed, “Pennsylvania always feels somewhat behind the eight ball when it comes to funding for abandoned mine reclamation.” He noted, “The need continues to outpace the available resources.” Sec. Quigley pointed out that it is an ongoing effort and “we have ongoing conversations with Washington to make sure we are getting every last dollar available and due to Pennsylvania.” He added, “It is an annual rite we go through every year.”
Sen. Vulakovich commented that during his service in the House and Senate he has learned the importance of balance when it comes to protecting the Commonwealth’s environment. Regarding the gas industry, he asked Sec. Quigley “do we pretty much have best practices better than any other state? “ Sec. Quigley responded, “I think we are right up there.” He added, “I believe every governor in every gas producing state says ‘our regs are the best; our standards are the best.’” Returning to the theme of the importance of balance, Sen. Vulakovich expressed concern that the Commonwealth not over regulate. He also argued that coal must continue to be part of the energy portfolio.
Sen. Baker noted that much has been written over the past few years about reductions in the department’s overall state funding levels. She commented that she believes there is misnomer over how DEP’s complement is funded. Sen. Baker said it her understanding it is paid for by the fees industry pays. She wanted to know the number of employees at the department and how many are paid for by existing fees and not state taxpayers’ dollars. Sec. Quigley explained that about 21 percent of the department’s operating budget is General Fund; 28 percent is federal funding; and 51 percent is special accounts or special funds, fees, fines and penalties. He further explained that the water deputate and mine safety is General Fund and “they have suffered some of the biggest reductions.” Sec. Quigley also said, “We are obliged by many of our regulations to revisit our fee structure every two or three years and we are in the process of doing that again across the board.” He explained, “The intent here is the regulatory function being supported by fees received from the regulated community.” Sen. Baker then asked about the department doing a long-term air monitoring analysis and a forthcoming report. She wanted to know when the report will be released. Sec. Quigley pointed out there are a couple of reports and he wanted to know which one. Sen. Baker said it is the one related to natural gas. Sec. Quigley explained that one was done in Washington County. He said he would check into its status.
Chairman Browne commented on the importance of rail safety and the transporting of oil across the Commonwealth. He asked if that is something DEP will be involved with. Sec. Quigley pointed out the governor has written to the President asking for stronger federal support for rail safety to deal with this issue. He emphasized the need to look globally at the safety implications. Sec. Quigley explained that there has been a tabletop exercise with the Governor at the Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency to look at the implications of those kinds of emergencies. He added, “I can tell you the governor is very focused on this issue.” Chairman Browne noted the Auditor General has expressed concerns with some of the Commonwealth’s economic development programs that are not producing the job numbers that the applicants indicated would be created. Chairman Browne asked Sec. Quigley if he has consulted with the Auditor General on his concerns. Sec. Quigley responded that he has not but he is “willing to do so.”
Regarding the expansion of pipelines for distribution of energy, Chairman Browne asked what the department is doing to increase capacity and educating the public. Sec. Quigley explained that the pipelines fall more under the purview of the Public Utility Commission but the department has been encouraging the pipeline development companies to be more transparent about their plans and engage communities “in a meaningful way”. He noted he has spoken with two of the bigger companies who told him they intend to “go above and beyond” the minimum requirements.
Sec. Quigley told the committee he is looking to expand the department’s capacity. He said that the area that provides “the biggest bang for the buck” is in the information technology section. Sec. Quigley added that he would like to see the department develop electronic permitting. He also said one of his goals is to “wean the agency off paper.”
Chairman Browne commented that he agreed with Sen. Vulakovich on the importance of balance in any environmental regulations. He also advocated for consistency and sustainability.