Post by melody on Sept 15, 2014 23:42:30 GMT -5
House Environmental Resources and Environmental Committee
9/15/14, 12:00 p.m., 39 East Wing
By Trevor Monk, PLS
The committee met to consider bills.
SB 1155 Scarnati, Joseph - (PN 2112) Amends the Surface Mining Conservation and Reclamation Act to create an Aggregate Advisory Board to advise and assist in all manners pertaining to mining. The composition of the board is provided for along with the requirement to create and submit an annual report on its activities to the House and Senate Environmental Resources and Energy Committees. Effective in 60 days. (Prior Printer Number: 1529, 1806) - The bill was unanimously reported as committed.
HR 925 Rapp, Kathy - (PN 3856) Resolution directing the Joint State Government Commission to conduct a study and report on the scale and impact of wind turbines in this Commonwealth. - The resolution reported as amended with Representatives Chris Ross (R-Chester) and Steven McCarter (D-Montgomery) voting in the negative.
Rep. Kathy Rapp (R-Warren) briefly summarized the resolution and said it would commission the Joint State Government Commission to conduct a study on the wind turbines industry and its impacts on the environment and the positive and negative impacts they have on PJM Grid.
A08638 by Rapp, requires the commission to review current regulations and similar requirements and requires the commission to report on the progress of wind energy in relation to the Alternative Energy Portfolio Standards Act. The amendment was adopted.
Minority Chairman Greg Vitali (D-Delaware) expressed concerns with the resolution. He said the concept of a study that looks at the cost and benefits of energy is a good thing but this resolution looks at energy derived from wind turbines in a “vacuum.” He said the amendment simply carries forward to the same non-contextualized information seen regarding wind energy, while failing to take into account other major energy sources.
Rep. Rapp retorted by saying the committee has a duty to look at this industry and its impact on environment. She said she is not opposed to wind energy and that the committee knows very little about the industry and it is time that the committee took a deeper look into it, in light of the federal regulations on the coal industry. She said the regulations could have a negative impact on the grid. She said the state needs to make sure that if alternative energies are penetrating the grid, while traditional energies are being decommissioned, that state needs to know that the energy produced from alternative energies will be there for consumption when needed.
Rep. Jeffrey Pyle (R-Armstrong) agreed with Rep. Rapp. He said with the recent application of the Clean Air Act at the federal level, the state has seen a number of power plants decommissioned, to the point where consistency and supply is something that needs to be looked at by the committee. Rep. Pyle made note that the state came within “10 minutes of rolling brownouts” during the 2014 Polar Vortex, due to the capacity of the grid.
A09440 by Vitali, provides for comparison with other types of energy. The amendment was adopted by a vote of 12-10 with Chairman Vitali and Representatives Becky Corbin (R-Chester), Chris Ross (R-Chester), Matt Bradford (D-Montgomery), Mike Carroll (D-Luzerne), Frank Farina (D-Lackawanna), Jaret Gibbons (D-Beaver), Jordan Harris (D-Philadelphia), McCarter, Steve Santarsiero (D-Bucks), Kevin Schreiber (D-York), and Pam Snyder (D-Greene) voting in the affirmative.
Chairman Vitali said the amendment addresses the lack of contextualization of this resolution and its failure to take into account the impact on the environment and the substitutes amounts received by the wind energy industry, compared to other energies. He said the environmental impact of wind turbines needs to be compared to other energy resources such as nuclear, coal and oil. He added that looking at the subsidies received by the wind industry in a vacuum will not be useful. He continued by citing information provided by PennFuture.
Chairman Vitali said his amendment provides for a more comprehensive study. He opined the information yielded by the report would be worthless if not put into context and compared to the other alternative energy choices within the state.
Rep. Eli Evankovich (R-Westmoreland) remarked that in order to study one topic, not every other topic must be studied. He agreed that the study, as originally proposed, would provide useful information moving forward. He said the state does not mandate the use of conventional energy sources, but it does mandate the use of alternative energy sources, therefore the state needs to understand the impacts, even if they are on their own, of anything mandated.
Rep. Ross made point on the topic that the state does not mandate a specific a specific amount of wind energy, but instead wind competes with a broad range of other Alternative Energy Sources listed in the Alternative Energy Portfolio Standards. He said there is a tremendous amount of information on the effects of wind industry on birds and bats. He continued by saying he was not aware of many studies on the effects of other conventional sources. He said contextualizing this study would not be a bad idea adding that he believes there should be further amendments to study the “electric grid.” He did note PJM has a lot of information readily available and a lot of the information the state is asking the Joint State Commission to look at is already out there.
Rep. Rapp said the resolution is to study the penetration of the wind turbine industry because the state has “X” amount of wind turbines, producing “Y” amount of energy. She indicated the other areas could be studied but, suggested the chairman put forth his own resolution to conduct a study on those particular industries. She continued to say she would not be opposed to hearing in the future on the “grid” and any issues concerning the use of electricity and its availability.
Chairman Vitali suggested the conversation had strayed from what the resolution actually requires, which he said is the effect of wind energy on the environment. Chairman Vitali read selected “whereas” clauses of the resolution and made note of how often it references the environmental impact. He said the resolution is not about power shortages; this resolution deals with the impact on the environment and it is only fair to have a discussion about what the resolution will actually do.
Rep. Pyle stated his preference for the resolution without the amendment.
Following the vote on the amendment, Chairman Vitali expressed his surprise at his success and indicated he would support the amended resolution in committee, but he has other concerns that he will attempt to deal with on the Floor.
HB 1565 Hahn, Marcia - (PN 2114) Amends the Clean Streams Law further providing for potential pollution by adding that the use or installation of riparian buffers and riparian forest buffers shall not be required under this section. Riparian buffers and riparian forest buffers may be used as a choice among best management practices, design standards and alternatives to minimize the potential for accelerated erosion and sedimentation and to protect, maintain, reclaim and restore water quality and for existing and designated uses. Effective in 60 days. - The bill reported as amended by a vote of 15-7 with Chairman Vitali and Representatives Corbin, Ross, Santarsiero, Bradford, McCarter, and Schreiber voting in the negative.
A09397 by Miller, was stated to require buffers to be placed elsewhere in the drainage basin at a ratio of 2-1, if a project will impact a buffer zone and requires other best practices to be used. The amendment was adopted by a vote of 17-5 with Representatives Corbin, Ross, Bradford, McCarter, and Santarsiero voting in the negative.
Chairman Vitali said it’s not a 2-1 swap, explaining that the amendment would require a 2-1 swap after the first 50 feet, a 1-1 swap for 50-100 feet, and no replacement thereafter. He said he supports the amendment because it makes a bad bill less bad. He noted that one of the main problems with the amendment is that it does not affect the bill’s removal of the authority for the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) to require buffers on a case-by-case basis. He cited a letter from DEP in which the department asks for this authorization. Continuing, Chairman Vitali also raised concern with the provisions that allow for a swap of the buffers anywhere in the watershed.
Rep. Ross said a single 150-foot mandate without a good system to figure out when to back away from that mandate leaves the state in a position of potentially having to buy a lot property. He said the current system of offering waivers in an ad-hoc way needs to be avoided, adding that a better system is needed to avoid a complete taking of property that is effective environmentally. Rep. Ross was troubled by two key elements, the first being the deductions from 150 feet to 50 feet. The second problem is allowing the substitution to happen within the water shed. Rep. Ross said he will try to develop his own alternative amendments to solve those issues and at the time could not support the amendments.
On the bill as amended, Chairman Vitali reiterated his opposition and his preference for the Chapter 120 requirements for a 150-foot stream buffer. He continued to discuss the benefits of buffers listed by DEP at a prior hearing. He also pointed out that Chapter 120 requirements are very limited because the 150-foot buffer does not apply to all streams in the Commonwealth, just to exceptional value and high quality watersheds. He further noted the requirements are subject to exemption or waiver. He concluded the bill takes away the ability of DEP to look at buffers on a case by case basis. Chairman Vitali also read a letter from the Monroe County Conservation District in support of riparian buffers.
Rep. Mike Carroll (D-Luzerne) said the bill provides mandate that would “make it unimaginably hard for folks (in the northeast) to live with.” He said flexibility is absolutely necessary and argued that the northeast part of the state needs to be able to maintain quality streams and move the economy forward.
Rep. McCarter said those in highly populated areas, where they do not have the quality designations of streams, would like buffers because they are a means to get back to high quality streams. He does not want to see the state move backwards on the issue.
Rep. Evankovich said the current wavier process is very ad-hoc and subjective. He said the amendment provides a guideline and defined pathway to move forward and necessary. He said this would not damage the environment.
Chairman Vitali made note of a bill from Sen. John Rafferty (R-Montgomery) that increases the length of the buffer to 300 feet in high quality streams. He also mentioned the bill is has broad, widespread opposition from numerous groups, including the Chesapeake Bay Foundation, the Nature Conservancy, Delaware Riverkeeper, Clean Water Action, PennFuture, and Trout Unlimited.
Rep. Santarsiero said this is a bad solution to a non existing problem. He further remarked it is “not a coincidence” that it was happening in the “waning days of the Corbett administration.”
9/15/14, 12:00 p.m., 39 East Wing
By Trevor Monk, PLS
The committee met to consider bills.
SB 1155 Scarnati, Joseph - (PN 2112) Amends the Surface Mining Conservation and Reclamation Act to create an Aggregate Advisory Board to advise and assist in all manners pertaining to mining. The composition of the board is provided for along with the requirement to create and submit an annual report on its activities to the House and Senate Environmental Resources and Energy Committees. Effective in 60 days. (Prior Printer Number: 1529, 1806) - The bill was unanimously reported as committed.
HR 925 Rapp, Kathy - (PN 3856) Resolution directing the Joint State Government Commission to conduct a study and report on the scale and impact of wind turbines in this Commonwealth. - The resolution reported as amended with Representatives Chris Ross (R-Chester) and Steven McCarter (D-Montgomery) voting in the negative.
Rep. Kathy Rapp (R-Warren) briefly summarized the resolution and said it would commission the Joint State Government Commission to conduct a study on the wind turbines industry and its impacts on the environment and the positive and negative impacts they have on PJM Grid.
A08638 by Rapp, requires the commission to review current regulations and similar requirements and requires the commission to report on the progress of wind energy in relation to the Alternative Energy Portfolio Standards Act. The amendment was adopted.
Minority Chairman Greg Vitali (D-Delaware) expressed concerns with the resolution. He said the concept of a study that looks at the cost and benefits of energy is a good thing but this resolution looks at energy derived from wind turbines in a “vacuum.” He said the amendment simply carries forward to the same non-contextualized information seen regarding wind energy, while failing to take into account other major energy sources.
Rep. Rapp retorted by saying the committee has a duty to look at this industry and its impact on environment. She said she is not opposed to wind energy and that the committee knows very little about the industry and it is time that the committee took a deeper look into it, in light of the federal regulations on the coal industry. She said the regulations could have a negative impact on the grid. She said the state needs to make sure that if alternative energies are penetrating the grid, while traditional energies are being decommissioned, that state needs to know that the energy produced from alternative energies will be there for consumption when needed.
Rep. Jeffrey Pyle (R-Armstrong) agreed with Rep. Rapp. He said with the recent application of the Clean Air Act at the federal level, the state has seen a number of power plants decommissioned, to the point where consistency and supply is something that needs to be looked at by the committee. Rep. Pyle made note that the state came within “10 minutes of rolling brownouts” during the 2014 Polar Vortex, due to the capacity of the grid.
A09440 by Vitali, provides for comparison with other types of energy. The amendment was adopted by a vote of 12-10 with Chairman Vitali and Representatives Becky Corbin (R-Chester), Chris Ross (R-Chester), Matt Bradford (D-Montgomery), Mike Carroll (D-Luzerne), Frank Farina (D-Lackawanna), Jaret Gibbons (D-Beaver), Jordan Harris (D-Philadelphia), McCarter, Steve Santarsiero (D-Bucks), Kevin Schreiber (D-York), and Pam Snyder (D-Greene) voting in the affirmative.
Chairman Vitali said the amendment addresses the lack of contextualization of this resolution and its failure to take into account the impact on the environment and the substitutes amounts received by the wind energy industry, compared to other energies. He said the environmental impact of wind turbines needs to be compared to other energy resources such as nuclear, coal and oil. He added that looking at the subsidies received by the wind industry in a vacuum will not be useful. He continued by citing information provided by PennFuture.
Chairman Vitali said his amendment provides for a more comprehensive study. He opined the information yielded by the report would be worthless if not put into context and compared to the other alternative energy choices within the state.
Rep. Eli Evankovich (R-Westmoreland) remarked that in order to study one topic, not every other topic must be studied. He agreed that the study, as originally proposed, would provide useful information moving forward. He said the state does not mandate the use of conventional energy sources, but it does mandate the use of alternative energy sources, therefore the state needs to understand the impacts, even if they are on their own, of anything mandated.
Rep. Ross made point on the topic that the state does not mandate a specific a specific amount of wind energy, but instead wind competes with a broad range of other Alternative Energy Sources listed in the Alternative Energy Portfolio Standards. He said there is a tremendous amount of information on the effects of wind industry on birds and bats. He continued by saying he was not aware of many studies on the effects of other conventional sources. He said contextualizing this study would not be a bad idea adding that he believes there should be further amendments to study the “electric grid.” He did note PJM has a lot of information readily available and a lot of the information the state is asking the Joint State Commission to look at is already out there.
Rep. Rapp said the resolution is to study the penetration of the wind turbine industry because the state has “X” amount of wind turbines, producing “Y” amount of energy. She indicated the other areas could be studied but, suggested the chairman put forth his own resolution to conduct a study on those particular industries. She continued to say she would not be opposed to hearing in the future on the “grid” and any issues concerning the use of electricity and its availability.
Chairman Vitali suggested the conversation had strayed from what the resolution actually requires, which he said is the effect of wind energy on the environment. Chairman Vitali read selected “whereas” clauses of the resolution and made note of how often it references the environmental impact. He said the resolution is not about power shortages; this resolution deals with the impact on the environment and it is only fair to have a discussion about what the resolution will actually do.
Rep. Pyle stated his preference for the resolution without the amendment.
Following the vote on the amendment, Chairman Vitali expressed his surprise at his success and indicated he would support the amended resolution in committee, but he has other concerns that he will attempt to deal with on the Floor.
HB 1565 Hahn, Marcia - (PN 2114) Amends the Clean Streams Law further providing for potential pollution by adding that the use or installation of riparian buffers and riparian forest buffers shall not be required under this section. Riparian buffers and riparian forest buffers may be used as a choice among best management practices, design standards and alternatives to minimize the potential for accelerated erosion and sedimentation and to protect, maintain, reclaim and restore water quality and for existing and designated uses. Effective in 60 days. - The bill reported as amended by a vote of 15-7 with Chairman Vitali and Representatives Corbin, Ross, Santarsiero, Bradford, McCarter, and Schreiber voting in the negative.
A09397 by Miller, was stated to require buffers to be placed elsewhere in the drainage basin at a ratio of 2-1, if a project will impact a buffer zone and requires other best practices to be used. The amendment was adopted by a vote of 17-5 with Representatives Corbin, Ross, Bradford, McCarter, and Santarsiero voting in the negative.
Chairman Vitali said it’s not a 2-1 swap, explaining that the amendment would require a 2-1 swap after the first 50 feet, a 1-1 swap for 50-100 feet, and no replacement thereafter. He said he supports the amendment because it makes a bad bill less bad. He noted that one of the main problems with the amendment is that it does not affect the bill’s removal of the authority for the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) to require buffers on a case-by-case basis. He cited a letter from DEP in which the department asks for this authorization. Continuing, Chairman Vitali also raised concern with the provisions that allow for a swap of the buffers anywhere in the watershed.
Rep. Ross said a single 150-foot mandate without a good system to figure out when to back away from that mandate leaves the state in a position of potentially having to buy a lot property. He said the current system of offering waivers in an ad-hoc way needs to be avoided, adding that a better system is needed to avoid a complete taking of property that is effective environmentally. Rep. Ross was troubled by two key elements, the first being the deductions from 150 feet to 50 feet. The second problem is allowing the substitution to happen within the water shed. Rep. Ross said he will try to develop his own alternative amendments to solve those issues and at the time could not support the amendments.
On the bill as amended, Chairman Vitali reiterated his opposition and his preference for the Chapter 120 requirements for a 150-foot stream buffer. He continued to discuss the benefits of buffers listed by DEP at a prior hearing. He also pointed out that Chapter 120 requirements are very limited because the 150-foot buffer does not apply to all streams in the Commonwealth, just to exceptional value and high quality watersheds. He further noted the requirements are subject to exemption or waiver. He concluded the bill takes away the ability of DEP to look at buffers on a case by case basis. Chairman Vitali also read a letter from the Monroe County Conservation District in support of riparian buffers.
Rep. Mike Carroll (D-Luzerne) said the bill provides mandate that would “make it unimaginably hard for folks (in the northeast) to live with.” He said flexibility is absolutely necessary and argued that the northeast part of the state needs to be able to maintain quality streams and move the economy forward.
Rep. McCarter said those in highly populated areas, where they do not have the quality designations of streams, would like buffers because they are a means to get back to high quality streams. He does not want to see the state move backwards on the issue.
Rep. Evankovich said the current wavier process is very ad-hoc and subjective. He said the amendment provides a guideline and defined pathway to move forward and necessary. He said this would not damage the environment.
Chairman Vitali made note of a bill from Sen. John Rafferty (R-Montgomery) that increases the length of the buffer to 300 feet in high quality streams. He also mentioned the bill is has broad, widespread opposition from numerous groups, including the Chesapeake Bay Foundation, the Nature Conservancy, Delaware Riverkeeper, Clean Water Action, PennFuture, and Trout Unlimited.
Rep. Santarsiero said this is a bad solution to a non existing problem. He further remarked it is “not a coincidence” that it was happening in the “waning days of the Corbett administration.”