Merger Legislation to be Introduced by Causer

[melody]

HCO3423 By Causer. Merges the PA Fish and Boat Commission and the PA Game Commission into 1 independent agency.

* July 22, 2014 11:05 AM
* Rep. Martin Causer
* Merger of Game & Fish Agencies

* In the near future, I plan to introduce legislation to merge the
* Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission and the Pennsylvania Game
* Commission into one independent agency, based on the results of the
* recent Legislative Budget and Finance Committee (LBFC) study on the
* issue.
*
*
*
* As you know, the House last year passed my HR 129 directing the LBFC
* to examine the feasibility, impact, costs and savings of combining the
* agencies and to explore a range of options with regard to how to
* structure a new agency to best manage the wildlife and aquatic
* resources of the Commonwealth. Currently, Pennsylvania is the only
* state in the nation with two separate, independent agencies with
* management and oversight of fishing, boating and wildlife activities.
*
*
*
* In March, the LBFC released the results of its study, which found that
* a merger of the commissions is feasible and would save the Commonwealth
* about $5 million annually, primarily through elimination of redundant
* upper level positions and duplication of services.
*
*
*
* Given the concerns about financial difficulties frequently expressed
* by the agencies, and the reality that other states' wildlife agencies
* can operate efficiently under one umbrella, I believe now is the time
* to take a more serious look at combing the two commissions into one
* more streamlined, efficient agency.

[johns]

He is an idiot!

[Dutch]

And each time we vote, we vote for an idiot of one sort or another.

[ridgecommander]

While not a huge fan of the motives behind the merger, I will not oppose this if we end up with a independent fish and game agency separate from DCNR.

[melody]

Jul 23, 2014 10:24:09 GMT -5 ridgecommander said:

While not a huge fan of the motives behind the merger, I will not oppose this if we end up with a independent fish and game agency separate from DCNR.

That's a darn big IF.....especially because of the motives behind this push....

Answer me this....has the government ever done anything that has saved us money? confused-smiley-013
Or that was truly for our benefit and not theirs?

[Dutch]

What motives? Their intentions are ALWAYS pure and should NEVER be questioned. LOL

[galthatfishes]

Attachment Deleted

Seems Mr Causer needs to talk to those who have experience and wish their states agencies were more in line with ours. WE are the ENVY of the nation.

All one needs to do is click on a letter sent to the General Assembly to see that. I attached it at the top of this post.

[galthatfishes]

Jul 23, 2014 10:24:09 GMT -5 ridgecommander said:

While not a huge fan of the motives behind the merger, I will not oppose this if we end up with a independent fish and game agency separate from DCNR.

You are a smart guy Gene. Do you understand the history? Sometimes, history is the best teacher of all.

There was a man named John McFarlane Phillips. He and his friends- (names like Roosevelt, Pinchot, and others) fought for an independent (meaning self-funding) Game agency whose sole focus would be...game. Fish Commission started in much the same manner.

Those men had wisdom that would last well beyond their years. I'll give you an excerpt in a minute. I would like you to look at how many "merged" agencies have had their general assemblies try to raid their funding to balance their budgets; among other things.

Here is a peek at how Mr Phillips started the agency.

MG-161
PAPERS OF JOHN M. PHILLIPS
1891-1966
11 boxes and 2 volumes

Papers of John M. Phillips (b. 1861-d. 1953) John McFarlane Phillips is considered by some to be "the Grand Old Man of Conservation" in Pennsylvania. Born in Pittsburgh, Phillips served for many years as president of the Phillips Mine Supply Company that he co-founded there in 1898. In 1890, Phillips joined H. A. Penrose and Elmer F. Shaner in founding the Pennsylvania Sportsmen's Association. That group was part of a larger movement in the United States to safeguard wildlife and improve game populations. Phillips and his colleagues lobbied for the establishment of a state game commission. A law creating the Pennsylvania Game Commission was passed in 1895 but the General Assembly did not appropriate money for funding it until 1897. That same year, the state legislature approved various game laws supported by Phillips including acts outlawing hunting deer with hounds, hunting spring water fowls, sale of game birds and a daily bag quote for hunters. John M. Phillips was appointed to the Pennsylvania Game Commission in 1905. That year the Game Commission was successful in the passage of a law establishing game preserves or refuges for the protection of deer, wild turkey, grouse, quail, woodcock and other animals. Phillips and the Game Commission encountered more opposition, however, in their endeavor to pass a law requiring a $1 resident hunting license. In January 1913, Phillips proposed a proclamation later endorsed by the Game Commission calling for adoption of a resident hunting license. He petitioned Governor John K. Tener, asking "Give us a resident hunter's license and I will die happy." Theodore Roosevelt wrote Phillips in 1913 supporting the passage of a resident hunter license law in Pennsylvania. Governor Tener signed the bill into law on April 17, 1913. In 1919 another bill supported by Phillips became law allowing the Game Commission to use part of the hunting license fees to purchase land for game refuges and public hunting grounds. The following year, the first State Game Lands were purchased in Pennsylvania.

In 1924, Phillips and three other commissioners resigned from the Game Commission because of a dispute with fellow conservationist Governor Gifford Pinchot who ordered them to take an oath supporting the 18th Amendment of the United States Constitution. Phillips later turned down Governor John S. Fisher's invitation to serve on the Game Commission again. Although no longer on the Game Commission, Phillips continued to be active in conservation causes in the Commonwealth as well as nationally. He was, for example a trustee of American Wildlife Institute, Pennsylvania Field Trip Association, American Game Protective & Propagation Association, National Association of Audubon Societies, the National Parks Association and a member of the National Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America. Phillips campaigned for the federal "Duck Stamp Bill" which called for a $1 federal migratory bird license. The bill became law on March 16, 1934. Phillips and the Pennsylvania Federation of Sportsmen's' Club Inc. played a role in the creation of Pymatuning Lake in 1934 and in the passage of a 1937 environmental law protecting the law from sewage, garbage, and oil contamination. The law is known as the Pennsylvania Clean Streams Act.

Phillips was a friend or associate of many environmentalists including President Theodore Roosevelt, Governor Gifford Pinchot, Governor John K. Tener, Frederick C. Walcott, chairman of the first United States Senate Wildlife Committee, Charles French of the Pennsylvania Commission of Fisheries, G. Albert Stewart, Secretary of the Pennsylvania Department of Forests and Waters, and Ross L. Leffler, president of the Pennsylvania Game Commission. In the 1930s, Phillips was elected to the Pittsburgh City Council. He was the recipient of the 1923 Outdoor Life Magazine Prize and many tributes by his fellow conservationists.
The Papers of John M. Phillips are organized into the following series: General Correspondence, Boy Scout Member, Invitations, Memberships, Tributes, Miscellaneous, Publications, Pictures, Accounts and Scrapbooks. The major documentation of his conservation work is found, however, in the general correspondence, letter press books, pictures, and scrapbooks.

[ridgecommander]

Jul 23, 2014 21:30:32 GMT -5 melody said:

Jul 23, 2014 10:24:09 GMT -5 ridgecommander said:

While not a huge fan of the motives behind the merger, I will not oppose this if we end up with a independent fish and game agency separate from DCNR.

That's a darn big IF.....especially because of the motives behind this push....

Answer me this....has the government ever done anything that has saved us money? confused-smiley-013
Or that was truly for our benefit and not theirs?

I emphasized if as did you. If the agency remains independent and separate from DCNR, I will not oppose it. Functioning as independent agencies certainly has it's advantages. Downside is, when the money stream dries up, tough choices have to be made. Fish could certainly benefit from some of the Marcellus money if the agencies were merged. Ultimately, that will dry up in time as well. In my mind, fish is as important as game. Professionals from both now separate agencies working together as one for the benefit of all wildlife in this state should not be such an alien idea.

Again, all of the above based on a combined agency remaining independent and self funded.

[galthatfishes]

Jul 24, 2014 7:26:34 GMT -5 ridgecommander said:

Jul 23, 2014 21:30:32 GMT -5 melody said:

That's a darn big IF.....especially because of the motives behind this push....

Answer me this....has the government ever done anything that has saved us money? confused-smiley-013
Or that was truly for our benefit and not theirs?

I emphasized if as did you. If the agency remains independent and separate from DCNR, I will not oppose it. Functioning as independent agencies certainly has it's advantages. Downside is, when the money stream dries up, tough choices have to be made. Fish could certainly benefit from some of the Marcellus money if the agencies were merged. Ultimately, that will dry up in time as well. In my mind, fish is as important as game. Professionals from both now separate agencies working together as one for the benefit of all wildlife in this state should not be such an alien idea.

Again, all of the above based on a combined agency remaining independent and self funded.

Fish IS as important as Game. However; Game gets funding from PR, and Fish from DJ. Part of the issue with merged agencies is one always takes priority, while the other takes a huge hit.

Right now, millions upon millions are needed by fish to repair infrastructure (dams primarily). Because the legislature was neglect
in providing regular, timely fee increases, Fish does not have the money to even begin most of those projects. Why do I say neglect? Look at the comments from both our House and Senate leadership when it comes to fee increases.

Both say neither game nor fish does a good job managing our natural resources, and by writing legislation contrary to the agencies missions, and with their added negative commentary, the general assmebly and senate of PA have fostered ill will among sportsmen and women to the agencies.

Hell, most hunters and anglers don't realize it is their license dollars; and not general funds; that have supported these agencies and their missions!

The legislature makes it sound like Game and Fish OWE people a deer or fish or whatever- not that they are charged with the management of all species under their respective umbrellas.

We forgot where we came from.

In the late 1800s; early 1900s, there were few deer and few fish. Our agencies brought back many species from the LITERAL brink of extinction to great populations and clean waters. They didn't accomplish those tasks as MERGED agencies, they accomplished those things as INDEPENDENT agencies, ones who had the ABILITY to FOCUS on their missions.

Its bad enough the general assmebly sets their fees and creates their laws, and the Governor's office sets their salaries; but to foster ill will between the sportsmen and those agencies is reprehensible. Think about this Gene. When is the last time you heard a Rep or Senator say to someone - "Its not the Game Commission's fault they don't have Sunday hunting. We st the laws and we didn't change it". They don't. They ALLOW sportsmen to BELIEVE (unjustly) that its the Game Commission's own fault that we don't have Sunday hunting. They LIE by omission, and by their silence they allow untruths to grow. Then they throw their own fuels on the fire. Does that sound like responsible Governemnet?

Can you imagine the ire of sportsmen when their hunting license dollars are repairing fishing holes, while the money spent on grouse habitat, or whatever species it happens to be, is taken away to do that? It needs done- fund the agency and help them accomplish their goals- and quit stealing from one to fix another. That method only causes things to spiral and snowball out of control.

Sportsmen and women and our natural resources DESERVE better.

And when the Marcellus well is dry, then what?

[ridgecommander]

And when the Marcellus well is dry, then what?

And what happens when it runs dry with separate agencies? Fish keeps struggling as it is now. Game is right back where it was before gas.

As I said, I won't oppose a merger of game and fish if they remain independent.

[galthatfishes]

So you are cool waiting for that last minute amendment that takes their independence away? Cause I hear, that is part of the plan.

[Dutch]

The politicians are gonna do what they want.

We live in one of the most corrupt states there is.

[ridgecommander]

Jul 24, 2014 11:10:54 GMT -5 galthatfishes said:

So you are cool waiting for that last minute amendment that takes their independence away? Cause I hear, that is part of the plan.

I would actively oppose at that point.

[johns]

The time to oppose mucking around in the way out fish and game agencies are run and funded and operated is before a vote is taken for any change. I have found when you wait and see, you usually won't like what you see and then you are stuck with the image permanently.

[ridgecommander]

The bill is a merger of two independents into one independent agency. If one believes both agencies are currently run efficiently with the interests of sportsmen in mind, the same folks would be the ones determining how it's is "run, funded and operated".

[galthatfishes]

How long ago was it Gene, that the legislature SEPARATED DCNR and DEP? Why don't they just throw THEM back together?

Oh wait- they were SPLIT because they had two missions. Now each is responsible for their own.

WHy don't you ask Causer to stick those two (who were once one) back together FIRST?

[Dutch]

Good point. Two agencies with different missions that are better off split.

[melody]

We have to pass it so we can see what's in it.....

Yep...that about sums up how this will turn out with the current political climate in Harrisburg. smileys-whistling-823718

[Dutch]

As influence of hunters declines, and the number of REAL hunters declines in the Legislature, we will get MORE of this type crap.