Post by melody on Jun 13, 2014 20:24:40 GMT -5
House Democratic Policy Committee
6/2/14, Room 418 Main Capitol
By Kati Lawson, PLS
The House Democratic Policy Committee held a public hearing on Gov. Tom Corbett’s plan for leasing Pennsylvania’s state
parks and forests for the purpose of extracting natural gas.
Rep. Vitali explained the function of the committee is to look into issues that may not be examined by standing house committees. He thanked Chairman Sturla for being an advocate for the environment. Rep. Vitali pointed out the new trend of filling budget needs with money from developing state lands is concerning and the reason why the hearing is being held.
John Quigley, Principal of John H. Quigley, LLC., testified he has worked a variety of leadership capacities at DCNR,
including serving from April 2009 until January 2011 as Secretary. He said he believes former Gov Ed Rendell did the
“right and necessary thing” in signing the moratorium on any additional leasing of state forest land. Quigley explained the
governor and General Assembly should act as trustees, not liquidators, of the Commonwealth’s most sensitive lands. He
stated the Commonwealth does not even own the mineral rights beneath about 80 percent of the state park land that lies
atop Marcellus Shale gas. Quigley opined DCNR faces a park and forest infrastructure maintenance and rehabilitation
backlog of $1 billion. “The solution to meeting these needs and the fiscal duties of trustee of our public natural resources lies
in the responsible, prudent, and visionary use of the income that current state forest oil and gas leases will generate in the
coming decades,” stated Quigley. He then presented some background information on the Oil and Gas Lease Fund; he said
the state will be much worse off when Pennsylvania’s shale gas era comes to its eventual end if current trends continue.
Quigley said a permanent funding source is necessary to build an endowment to protect forests for Pennsylvanians of future
generations. He explained the creation of a Conservation Trust is “inherently fiscally conservative” and urged the legislators
to create such a fund.
John Childe, Jr., Public Interest Attorney, called the Oil and Gas Lease Fund a “de facto trust fund” and described how the
money from the fund should be used. He provided several examples of court cases in Pennsylvania as well as statutory
mandates that say “DCNR is obligated to use its authority to lease State Forest land for oil and gas extraction and its
authority to allocate the funds generated from its oil and gas leases to conserve and maintain the public natural resources.”
Childe said the fund should not be used as a general fund that the governor may draw financial resources from when gaps
appear in the state budget. “The Act specifically appropriates the money to DCNR to be allocated for the exclusive purposes
of projects for conservation, recreation, dams and flood control, the basic missions of DCNR,” stated Childe. He described
the Auditor General Report that said expenditures from the fund for items that do not appear to be within the purposes set
out in the Oil and gas Lease Fund Act were of questionable direct benefit to the physical enhancement and conservation
of State Parks and State Forests. “The revenue from the conversion of the public lands and the sale of the public natural
gas and oil belongs to the Public Trust,” concluded childe. “The Commonwealth is not the proprietor of those lands and
resources, it is the trustee.”
Rep. Mundy asked how leasing additional public lands for drilling will affect the likelihood of flooding in Pennsylvania.
Quigley answered the intensity of landscape disturbance due to shale gas development means a huge loss of forest cover.
“That is a threat in terms of flooding,” stated Quigley. “When you are clearing land nature intended to absorb water you are
increasing the potential for localized flooding.”
Rep. Longietti asked what will happen if the court sides with environmentalists in Childe’s current case. Childe said the court
could impose an injunction on the transfer of money from the fund to the General Fund. He said if he wins the case, the
governor will no longer be able to tell DCNR it has to lease state land to raise funds. Rep. Longietti asked if the court rules in
Childe’s favor after a budget is passed that includes money from the fund if the General Assembly will have to repay those
funds. “Yes,” answered Childe. “And there is a direct precedent for that.”
Rep. McCarter said it seems there is less and less funding available for flood prone areas. Quigley agreed, saying if the
money from the fund is not used for its intended purpose the bill will be “handed to the taxpayers.”
Rep. Dean noted the governor’s order said no drilling will be allowed that creates new or additional surface disturbance;
she asked about the appropriateness of that language. Quigley said he directed DCNR to develop analysis of the impact of
additional leasing of state lands in 2010. He explained the department was under pressure to allow for leasing and also did
not understand the scale of the impact drilling for natural gas would have on the environment. “The lack of experience and
insufficient analysis has led to this; there is no such thing as non-impact drilling,” concluded Quigley.
Rep. Vitali asked about the impact of using money from the fund for operating funds by DCNR. Quigley explained making
the state’s conservation agency depend on drilling to pay their salary is a terrible idea. He called the situation an “enormous
conflict of interest.”
John Norbeck, Vice President/COO of PennFuture and former DCNR State Parks Director, focused on: the value both
economic and social or quality of life benefits state parks bring to the Commonwealth, the significant harm and adverse
effects from leasing state parks, and asking the General Assembly and governor to do everything they can to avoid leasing
Pennsylvania’s state parks. He touted the benefits of Pennsylvania’s 120 state parks, which he said are owned by the
citizens and not the Commonwealth. He described the economic benefits brought to the Commonwealth by its state parks,
saying they have an economic value of over $1.12 billion annually. Norbeck stated half of Pennsylvania’s state parks are
within the Marcellus Shale play. He pointed out the citizenry only owns around 20 percent of the subsurface rights under the
state parks, the other 80 percent are owned by individuals, corporations, or other private parties. “To open up state lands
again for gas extractions will bring more disruption to the peaceful enjoyment of our parks, including heavy truck traffic,
diesel exhaust, air pollution, methane and VOC leakage, sedimentation of our streams, potential pollution of our waterways,
and washing our starry filled night skies with white light,” opined Norbeck. He called on the members to exercise their
authority and responsibility to enforce the Constitution and laws of the Commonwealth by not leasing state park lands.
Joanne Kilgour, Chapter Director, Pennsylvania Sierra Club, stated Gov. Corbett’s Executive Order 2014-03 would rescind
Executive Order 2010-05 and allow oil and gas leasing in state parks, “so long as such leasing would not result in additional
surface disturbance.” She explained the order is not a complete prohibition on the creation or expansion of infrastructure or
well pads within state parks or forests but only applies to newly-leased tracts. Previously leased tracts could produce new or
expanded roads, pipeline corridors, compressor state, or well pads within both state parks and state forests. She presented
information on the importance of state forests and parks as economic drivers for the Commonwealth as recreational areas
in their natural state. Kilgour then pointed out no gas infrastructure sites on state forest lands have been fully reclaimed,
saying “DCNR admits that while physical changes to infrastructure can be catalogued, the resulting impact on visual
changes and changes to visitor experience are more difficult to account for.” She said the Corbett Administration also did
not consider methane leakage when it counts on natural gas to be the driver of greenhouse gas emissions generated by the
Commonwealth. Kilgour concluded by saying the Sierra Club opposes new leasing of state forest and park lands, including
leasing that will result in long-term conversion of use on adjacent tracts.
Rep. Donatucci said she has been watching aerial footage of drilling in state parks and she believes every citizen should
see that footage because she is stunned by it. She stated Pennsylvanians need to consider how long it will take the trees to
grow back and animal population to return because drilling causes many long-term problems.
Rep. Mirabito pointed out developers are looking to drill in state forests now because they know the gas there will increase
in value in the future. “There is a symbiotic relationship between an industry that recognizes it needs to get gas that will cost
it more in the future and an administration that needs money now,” stated Rep. Mirabito. “As trustees we must protect the
asset and get the highest value from that asset and not sell it on the cheap.”
Rep. Vitali asked which parks will be at risk for drilling. Norbeck said he does not know but guessed that Little Pine State
Park is in danger because it is surrounded by leased state forest land.
Rep. McCarter asked if the governor’s executive order will not protect the land because it will create surface disturbance.
Kilgour said yes, remarking that “to say the new executive order will not allow additional leasing is misleading. The surface
impact definition has always been changing.”
Rep. Waters asked if drilling has had a negative impact on the economic value of state parks and forests. Norbeck said yes,
though there have not been reports to prove that assessment.
Mark Szybist, an attorney for PennFuture, provided an update on the continuing negotiations between the DCNR and
Anadarko Petroleum Corporation and Southwestern Energy Production Company to allow gas development in the Clarence
Moore lands. He said the lands are a 25,621 acre-area of the Loyalsock State Forest where the Commonwealth owns the
surface rights and the oil and gas rights are owned by the two private companies. He explained the lands are not ordinary split
estate lands, so DCNR has the ability to prevent or minimize gas development in the area. “Unfortunately, notwithstanding
its surface rights, the DCNR is preparing to negotiate a surface use agreement with Anadarko and Southwestern as if the
Clarence Moore lands were ordinary ‘split estate lands,’” explained Szybist. “I believe it is plain that under the applicable
court decisions, the DCNR has exclusive surface control of most of the Clarence Moore lands. At worst, the DCNR has
a strong claim to exclusive surface control.” He said he is concerned with the way DCNR administers its oil and gas
management program. Szybist pointed out DCNR has not promulgated any regulation on oil and gas leasing, saying “the
fact that the DCNR’s leasing activities are governed entirely by non-binding guidelines, rather than legal regulations, means
that the DCNR’s fiduciary duties as trustees of the public natural resources can become bargaining chaps when the financial
stakes are high enough.”
Curt Ashenfelter, Executive Director, Keystone Trails Association, presented information on how gas drilling has caused
harm to many trails in the Marcellus Shale region of Pennsylvania. He explained current conflicts include: placing well pads
directly on or adjacent to trails, truck traffic causing loud noises and dust, stream pollution, and overzealous security guards
chasing hikers off trails. “It is clear that gas drilling is harming Pennsylvania’s state forests, and the hiking trails within them,”
stated Ashenfelter. “Hikers and other Pennsylvanians do not want hike trails destroyed by gas drilling.” He then discussed
how several hiking paths are being threatened by gas development. Ashenfelter said gas drilling will deprive the state of
valuable tourist dollars as well as depriving Pennsylvanians of healthy outdoor recreation. He called drilling on state lands
to raise revenue “bad public policy” and urged the legislators to consider gas drilling’s effect on hiking trails in Pennsylvania
before they make any decisions concerning leasing state land.
Rep. Mirabito said he struggled to have DCNR hold a hearing on the topic in his area. “We should not have to do that to get
this government to respond to people. That is not what living in the United States is all about,” opined Rep. Mirabito.
Rep. Vitali said drilling seems to be incompatible with the enjoyment hikers and other outdoors enthusiasts have on state
lands. He asked if there is a lesson to be learned with the situation occurring at Loyalsock State Forest. Ashenfelter said
yes, there are lessons to be learned there and at other state parks and forests in Pennsylvania.
Rep. Dean thanked the chairmen for putting together the hearing so quickly and the testifiers for presenting information to
the committee.
Chairman Sturla said he approves of drilling for natural gas but only in appropriate places; he asked if there are any
regulations that control the noise coming from compression stations. Ashenfelter said there are not regulations but there are
standards. He pointed out the standards may work in urban areas but they do not make sense in rural state land.
Rep. Vitali thanked the members for attending, the testifiers for speaking, and the other attendees for showing interest in
the subject.
6/2/14, Room 418 Main Capitol
By Kati Lawson, PLS
The House Democratic Policy Committee held a public hearing on Gov. Tom Corbett’s plan for leasing Pennsylvania’s state
parks and forests for the purpose of extracting natural gas.
Rep. Vitali explained the function of the committee is to look into issues that may not be examined by standing house committees. He thanked Chairman Sturla for being an advocate for the environment. Rep. Vitali pointed out the new trend of filling budget needs with money from developing state lands is concerning and the reason why the hearing is being held.
John Quigley, Principal of John H. Quigley, LLC., testified he has worked a variety of leadership capacities at DCNR,
including serving from April 2009 until January 2011 as Secretary. He said he believes former Gov Ed Rendell did the
“right and necessary thing” in signing the moratorium on any additional leasing of state forest land. Quigley explained the
governor and General Assembly should act as trustees, not liquidators, of the Commonwealth’s most sensitive lands. He
stated the Commonwealth does not even own the mineral rights beneath about 80 percent of the state park land that lies
atop Marcellus Shale gas. Quigley opined DCNR faces a park and forest infrastructure maintenance and rehabilitation
backlog of $1 billion. “The solution to meeting these needs and the fiscal duties of trustee of our public natural resources lies
in the responsible, prudent, and visionary use of the income that current state forest oil and gas leases will generate in the
coming decades,” stated Quigley. He then presented some background information on the Oil and Gas Lease Fund; he said
the state will be much worse off when Pennsylvania’s shale gas era comes to its eventual end if current trends continue.
Quigley said a permanent funding source is necessary to build an endowment to protect forests for Pennsylvanians of future
generations. He explained the creation of a Conservation Trust is “inherently fiscally conservative” and urged the legislators
to create such a fund.
John Childe, Jr., Public Interest Attorney, called the Oil and Gas Lease Fund a “de facto trust fund” and described how the
money from the fund should be used. He provided several examples of court cases in Pennsylvania as well as statutory
mandates that say “DCNR is obligated to use its authority to lease State Forest land for oil and gas extraction and its
authority to allocate the funds generated from its oil and gas leases to conserve and maintain the public natural resources.”
Childe said the fund should not be used as a general fund that the governor may draw financial resources from when gaps
appear in the state budget. “The Act specifically appropriates the money to DCNR to be allocated for the exclusive purposes
of projects for conservation, recreation, dams and flood control, the basic missions of DCNR,” stated Childe. He described
the Auditor General Report that said expenditures from the fund for items that do not appear to be within the purposes set
out in the Oil and gas Lease Fund Act were of questionable direct benefit to the physical enhancement and conservation
of State Parks and State Forests. “The revenue from the conversion of the public lands and the sale of the public natural
gas and oil belongs to the Public Trust,” concluded childe. “The Commonwealth is not the proprietor of those lands and
resources, it is the trustee.”
Rep. Mundy asked how leasing additional public lands for drilling will affect the likelihood of flooding in Pennsylvania.
Quigley answered the intensity of landscape disturbance due to shale gas development means a huge loss of forest cover.
“That is a threat in terms of flooding,” stated Quigley. “When you are clearing land nature intended to absorb water you are
increasing the potential for localized flooding.”
Rep. Longietti asked what will happen if the court sides with environmentalists in Childe’s current case. Childe said the court
could impose an injunction on the transfer of money from the fund to the General Fund. He said if he wins the case, the
governor will no longer be able to tell DCNR it has to lease state land to raise funds. Rep. Longietti asked if the court rules in
Childe’s favor after a budget is passed that includes money from the fund if the General Assembly will have to repay those
funds. “Yes,” answered Childe. “And there is a direct precedent for that.”
Rep. McCarter said it seems there is less and less funding available for flood prone areas. Quigley agreed, saying if the
money from the fund is not used for its intended purpose the bill will be “handed to the taxpayers.”
Rep. Dean noted the governor’s order said no drilling will be allowed that creates new or additional surface disturbance;
she asked about the appropriateness of that language. Quigley said he directed DCNR to develop analysis of the impact of
additional leasing of state lands in 2010. He explained the department was under pressure to allow for leasing and also did
not understand the scale of the impact drilling for natural gas would have on the environment. “The lack of experience and
insufficient analysis has led to this; there is no such thing as non-impact drilling,” concluded Quigley.
Rep. Vitali asked about the impact of using money from the fund for operating funds by DCNR. Quigley explained making
the state’s conservation agency depend on drilling to pay their salary is a terrible idea. He called the situation an “enormous
conflict of interest.”
John Norbeck, Vice President/COO of PennFuture and former DCNR State Parks Director, focused on: the value both
economic and social or quality of life benefits state parks bring to the Commonwealth, the significant harm and adverse
effects from leasing state parks, and asking the General Assembly and governor to do everything they can to avoid leasing
Pennsylvania’s state parks. He touted the benefits of Pennsylvania’s 120 state parks, which he said are owned by the
citizens and not the Commonwealth. He described the economic benefits brought to the Commonwealth by its state parks,
saying they have an economic value of over $1.12 billion annually. Norbeck stated half of Pennsylvania’s state parks are
within the Marcellus Shale play. He pointed out the citizenry only owns around 20 percent of the subsurface rights under the
state parks, the other 80 percent are owned by individuals, corporations, or other private parties. “To open up state lands
again for gas extractions will bring more disruption to the peaceful enjoyment of our parks, including heavy truck traffic,
diesel exhaust, air pollution, methane and VOC leakage, sedimentation of our streams, potential pollution of our waterways,
and washing our starry filled night skies with white light,” opined Norbeck. He called on the members to exercise their
authority and responsibility to enforce the Constitution and laws of the Commonwealth by not leasing state park lands.
Joanne Kilgour, Chapter Director, Pennsylvania Sierra Club, stated Gov. Corbett’s Executive Order 2014-03 would rescind
Executive Order 2010-05 and allow oil and gas leasing in state parks, “so long as such leasing would not result in additional
surface disturbance.” She explained the order is not a complete prohibition on the creation or expansion of infrastructure or
well pads within state parks or forests but only applies to newly-leased tracts. Previously leased tracts could produce new or
expanded roads, pipeline corridors, compressor state, or well pads within both state parks and state forests. She presented
information on the importance of state forests and parks as economic drivers for the Commonwealth as recreational areas
in their natural state. Kilgour then pointed out no gas infrastructure sites on state forest lands have been fully reclaimed,
saying “DCNR admits that while physical changes to infrastructure can be catalogued, the resulting impact on visual
changes and changes to visitor experience are more difficult to account for.” She said the Corbett Administration also did
not consider methane leakage when it counts on natural gas to be the driver of greenhouse gas emissions generated by the
Commonwealth. Kilgour concluded by saying the Sierra Club opposes new leasing of state forest and park lands, including
leasing that will result in long-term conversion of use on adjacent tracts.
Rep. Donatucci said she has been watching aerial footage of drilling in state parks and she believes every citizen should
see that footage because she is stunned by it. She stated Pennsylvanians need to consider how long it will take the trees to
grow back and animal population to return because drilling causes many long-term problems.
Rep. Mirabito pointed out developers are looking to drill in state forests now because they know the gas there will increase
in value in the future. “There is a symbiotic relationship between an industry that recognizes it needs to get gas that will cost
it more in the future and an administration that needs money now,” stated Rep. Mirabito. “As trustees we must protect the
asset and get the highest value from that asset and not sell it on the cheap.”
Rep. Vitali asked which parks will be at risk for drilling. Norbeck said he does not know but guessed that Little Pine State
Park is in danger because it is surrounded by leased state forest land.
Rep. McCarter asked if the governor’s executive order will not protect the land because it will create surface disturbance.
Kilgour said yes, remarking that “to say the new executive order will not allow additional leasing is misleading. The surface
impact definition has always been changing.”
Rep. Waters asked if drilling has had a negative impact on the economic value of state parks and forests. Norbeck said yes,
though there have not been reports to prove that assessment.
Mark Szybist, an attorney for PennFuture, provided an update on the continuing negotiations between the DCNR and
Anadarko Petroleum Corporation and Southwestern Energy Production Company to allow gas development in the Clarence
Moore lands. He said the lands are a 25,621 acre-area of the Loyalsock State Forest where the Commonwealth owns the
surface rights and the oil and gas rights are owned by the two private companies. He explained the lands are not ordinary split
estate lands, so DCNR has the ability to prevent or minimize gas development in the area. “Unfortunately, notwithstanding
its surface rights, the DCNR is preparing to negotiate a surface use agreement with Anadarko and Southwestern as if the
Clarence Moore lands were ordinary ‘split estate lands,’” explained Szybist. “I believe it is plain that under the applicable
court decisions, the DCNR has exclusive surface control of most of the Clarence Moore lands. At worst, the DCNR has
a strong claim to exclusive surface control.” He said he is concerned with the way DCNR administers its oil and gas
management program. Szybist pointed out DCNR has not promulgated any regulation on oil and gas leasing, saying “the
fact that the DCNR’s leasing activities are governed entirely by non-binding guidelines, rather than legal regulations, means
that the DCNR’s fiduciary duties as trustees of the public natural resources can become bargaining chaps when the financial
stakes are high enough.”
Curt Ashenfelter, Executive Director, Keystone Trails Association, presented information on how gas drilling has caused
harm to many trails in the Marcellus Shale region of Pennsylvania. He explained current conflicts include: placing well pads
directly on or adjacent to trails, truck traffic causing loud noises and dust, stream pollution, and overzealous security guards
chasing hikers off trails. “It is clear that gas drilling is harming Pennsylvania’s state forests, and the hiking trails within them,”
stated Ashenfelter. “Hikers and other Pennsylvanians do not want hike trails destroyed by gas drilling.” He then discussed
how several hiking paths are being threatened by gas development. Ashenfelter said gas drilling will deprive the state of
valuable tourist dollars as well as depriving Pennsylvanians of healthy outdoor recreation. He called drilling on state lands
to raise revenue “bad public policy” and urged the legislators to consider gas drilling’s effect on hiking trails in Pennsylvania
before they make any decisions concerning leasing state land.
Rep. Mirabito said he struggled to have DCNR hold a hearing on the topic in his area. “We should not have to do that to get
this government to respond to people. That is not what living in the United States is all about,” opined Rep. Mirabito.
Rep. Vitali said drilling seems to be incompatible with the enjoyment hikers and other outdoors enthusiasts have on state
lands. He asked if there is a lesson to be learned with the situation occurring at Loyalsock State Forest. Ashenfelter said
yes, there are lessons to be learned there and at other state parks and forests in Pennsylvania.
Rep. Dean thanked the chairmen for putting together the hearing so quickly and the testifiers for presenting information to
the committee.
Chairman Sturla said he approves of drilling for natural gas but only in appropriate places; he asked if there are any
regulations that control the noise coming from compression stations. Ashenfelter said there are not regulations but there are
standards. He pointed out the standards may work in urban areas but they do not make sense in rural state land.
Rep. Vitali thanked the members for attending, the testifiers for speaking, and the other attendees for showing interest in
the subject.