Post by melody on Mar 21, 2014 15:33:14 GMT -5
House Game and Fisheries Committee
3/19/14, 9:00 a.m., Room G-50 Irvis Office Building
By Matt Hess, PLS
The committee held a public hearing on Deer Management.
HB 870 Kula, Deberah - (PN 1013) Amends Title 34 (Game), in special licenses and permits, to remove state game lands from the Game Commissions Deer Management Area Permit program. Effective in 60 days. (PN 1013) Amends Title 34 (Game), in special licenses and permits, to remove state game lands from the Game Commissions Deer Management Area Permit program. Effective in 60 days.
HB 1146 Readshaw, Harry - (PN 1404) Amends Title 34 (Game) adding language providing a person who holds a valid Pennsylvania senior hunting license may hunt and kill with an authorized weapon one deer that has two or more points to one antler or that has one antler three or more inches in length during an antlered deer season. Effective in 60 days. (PN 1404) Amends Title 34 (Game) adding language providing a person who holds a valid Pennsylvania senior hunting license may hunt and kill with an authorized weapon one deer that has two or more points to one antler or that has one antler three or more inches in length during an antlered deer season. Effective in 60 days.
HB 1370 Kula, Deberah - (PN 1776) Amends Title 34 (Game), in Pennsylvania Game Commission, restricting doe (antlerless deer) season to only three days, and only permit its commencement after the conclusion of rifled buck (antlered deer) season. Effective in 60 days. (PN 1776) Amends Title 34 (Game), in Pennsylvania Game Commission, restricting doe (antlerless deer) season to only three days, and only permit its commencement after the conclusion of rifled buck (antlered deer) season. Effective in 60 days.
HB 1724 Maloney, David - (PN 2410) Amends Title 34 (Game) to provide that each county shall represent a separate wildlife management unit and instituting annual antlerless deer limits on a county-based wildlife management unit basis. Effective in 60 days. (PN 2410) Amends Title 34 (Game) to provide that each county shall represent a separate wildlife management unit and instituting annual antlerless deer limits on a county-based wildlife management unit basis. Effective in 60 days.
HB 1726 Maloney, David - (PN 2411) Amends Title 34 (Game) to state it shall be the duty of the Pennsylvania Game Commission to focus primarily on serving the interests of Pennsylvania sportsmen and the special heritage of hunting and furtaking. The legislation also requires the commission to ensure adequate game by providing for the maximum sustained yield system of wildlife management. Effective in 60 days. (PN 2411) Amends Title 34 (Game) to state it shall be the duty of the Pennsylvania Game Commission to focus primarily on serving the interests of Pennsylvania sportsmen and the special heritage of hunting and furtaking. The legislation also requires the commission to ensure adequate game by providing for the maximum sustained yield system of wildlife management. Effective in 60 days.
Chairman Causer said deer management is a priority for many citizens. "As legislators, deer management is probably the one topic we hear from our constituents the most," he stated. "There are a number of bills that have been introduced and referred to the committee dealing with deer management. I thought the most prudent thing is to have a hearing and discuss all of the bills that have been introduced."
Chairman Haluska said a number of the issues raised in the bills have been around for years. "I've seen a lot of these things come and go," he stated. "Some of these bills were actually talked about for years, we've taken action on some of them and we've made some changes over the years on some of the things they want to revert back to."
Calvin DuBrock, Director of Bureau of Wildlife Management, Pennsylvania Game Commission, said opinions on the issue of deer management vary and shared the findings from a Game Commission survey. "According to the responses in a 2011 survey of over 3,500 deer hunters, 50 percent were satisfied with current season and regulations, and 36 percent expressed overall satisfaction with the deer program, 33 percent were dissatisfied and 31 percent weren't sure," he stated. "Among Pennsylvania residents, satisfaction was high with opportunities to view or watch deer in Pennsylvania: 66 percent said that they were satisfied, while only ten percent were dissatisfied. 54 percent of Pennsylvania residents said the deer population in their area was just right. Otherwise, they were fairly evenly split, with 20 percent saying the deer population was too high, and 18 percent saying it was too low."
DuBrock emphasized that Pennsylvania's deer program is "science based" and highlighted the main goals of the program:
•Maintain healthy and sustainable deer populations;
•maintain healthy and sustainable forest habitats for the benefit of deer and other wildlife;
•Maintain acceptable levels of deer-human conflicts;
•Provide recreational opportunities to use and enjoy deer;
•Improve the public's understanding of the deer program.
"Based upon our most recent data, the deer program is achieving many of the public's goals," DuBrock stated. "At the management unit level, we see healthy and sustainable deer populations that are not causing unacceptable deer-human conflicts. These assessments are based on measures of fawn to doe ratios, deer population trends, and surveys of Pennsylvania citizens. We also are seeing positive responses regarding forest regeneration and the impact of deer on the forests in most wildlife management units (WMUs). In most WMUs, forest regeneration is considered good or, if regeneration is not good, deer impact is considered acceptable. These assessments are based on data collected by the US Forest Service on both public and private land across Pennsylvania."
DuBrock did not express support for House Bill 870, House Bill 1146, House Bill 1370, House Bill 1724 or House Bill 1726 but said the Commission is committed to receiving input on the deer management program. "We regularly ask for hunter input and adjust recommendations accordingly," he stated. "We are committed to an adaptive management approach that embraces change shaped by collaboration with hunters and the public that produces health deer and habitats that provide recreation without imposing economic hardship on our farm, forest and suburban landowners."
Chairman Causer questioned how the 2011 survey was conducted. DuBrock indicated that it was a telephone survey of 9,200 Pennsylvanians conducted by an outside vendor. Chris Rosenberry, Section Supervisor, Pennsylvania Game Commission, noted that in certain sections, such as 2G and 3A, citizens did say deer populations were too low and reiterated that the results were a statewide average.
Rep. Moul questioned why economic impact is not a consideration for the Game Commission in the deer management program. DuBrock said hunters are not the only driver of economic development and pointed out that an overpopulation of deer could negatively impact farming and do greater damage to the habitat. "We don't have a real metrics in terms of how deer directly contribute the economic well being of communities in the Commonwealth, but that's something we get anecdotally through surveys and people," he stated. "That's how we factor that in." Rep. Moul said a dearth of deer is having a negative impact and cited businesses that rent and own hunting cabins. Rosenberry noted that hunting licenses have decreased since 1982 and in many of those years the deer population was increasing. "As a deer management program there is a limit to what we can do," he stated. "Increasing the deer population is not going to solve the hunter number issue, it's more complex than that."
Rep. Kula, prime sponsor of House Bill 870, questioned how many DMAPs were reported on public lands. DuBrock stated "47 percent actually reported" and explained "they are required to report with DMAP, its mandatory reporting whether you harvest a deer or not." Rep. Kula opined that there could have been many more deer harvested than what was reported. DuBrock stated "theoretically, yes." Rep. Kula noted many constituents that are hunters have told her that they continue to attempt to hunt but they do not see any deer. "This bill will at least give us a chance to maybe bring up our deer population," she stated. "Something has to be done and I'm hoping the legislation we're reviewing here today will hopefully bring about more deer hunting here in the Commonwealth." DuBrock emphasized that the Game Commission is committed to increasing deer hunting in Pennsylvania. "This is a balancing act and something we grapple with everyday," he stated. "We would advocate that we continue to provide this tool to land owners across the Commonwealth whether they are public or private landowners."
Rep. Maloney urged the Game Commission to "listen to the hunters" and emphasized that a lack of deer is costing the state millions of dollars in economic activity. "It is your duty to fix our habitat," he stated. "Your own mastermind Gary Ault said this was done out of politics, not science."
Rep. Emrick disputed the credibility of the 2011 survey and "using that as a huge component of your decision to figure out if the deer herd appropriate," he stated. "The hunters are the experts; the hunters are the ultimate conservationists. The hunters are the ones who spend more time in the forest, in the fields, than anybody else. They can personally testify to what they experience. Why they are not the largest component of your deer management program, I have no idea but they should be."
Rep. Emrick questioned why there are no consequences for people who do not report under DMAP. DuBrock stated "when we did DMAP the initial year there were consequences; we were asked by members of the General Assembly and Commission members to exonerate people, give them a pass, and allow them to participate in the future." He added "in most units it's inconsequential in terms of the overall management decision because we are counting one to two percent of the overall antlerless harvest of the antlerless harvest within in a management unit." Rep. Emrick questioned how the Commission could get an accurate number when only 47 percent of people report and noted that other states require hunters to report. DuBrock noted that states such as Virginia, New York, and Wisconsin are attempting to emulate Pennsylvania's deer management program. Rosenberry noted that Pennsylvania, New York, and Ontario all use the estimate method. "All other states provide minimum counts for their harvest," he stated. "If we did that in Pennsylvania we would be operating off of 120,000 reports at this point." DuBrock added "we do need to figure a way to determine what the harvest was so we can make the best possible recommendation so we are managing this resource in the most responsible way." Rep. Emrick said the "deer population has plummeted" as a result of the Game Commission not changing its reporting method. DuBrock stated "that's not true.
Rep. Maloney questioned why the Game Commission has not conducted a predation study. DuBrock acknowledged that the commission has not conducted a predation study in the last decade but indicated he is aware of the issue. "It's impossible that the deer population is being decimated for us to continue to see hunter success rates remain relatively stable as they have over the last two decades," he stated. "It would be impossible to have a sustained harvest as we have every year."
Rep. Maloney reiterated that sportsmen should be the "number one stakeholders" when it comes to deer management. "The sportsmen are not being represented here," he stated. "What you're telling us today is so inconsistent: 'it's okay not to report DMAP but god help you if you do something wrong in the woods because we're coming after you.'" Rep. Maloney emphasized "the time is now to fix this,"
Randy Santucci, President, Unified Sportsmen of Pennsylvania, spoke in support of all the deer management related legislation and argued that the bills are "not extreme or over-reaching in nature, nor conceptually new" because they simply restitute "prove parameters" that previously existed for decades. "The wholesale changes implemented to institute today's failed value laden deer program, have proven not to be in the best interests of sportsmen or the commonwealth as a whole," he stated. "Large tracts of game-lands are still being purchased, while existing game-lands remain pathetically under managed for habitat, as the complement of food and over workers has steadily decreased, while positions are increased for biologists and foresters. Forest certification combined with a team of biologists that lacked an understanding that the biology must be balanced with social economic needs, has proven to be disastrous. We have the determinations of the November 2012 Independent Legislative Budget and Finance Committee study, revealing hundreds of millions of dollars of lost revenue to the state annually, compounding into billions over the last 13 years."
Rep. Lucas explained that he sponsored HR 576 because a constituent said he has difficulty getting off work on the first day of hunting season and acknowledged that the idea has not received a great deal of support. Santucci agreed that the proposal is not supported in the hunting community and indicated that it would have a negative impact on "deer hunting heritage."
Rep. Maloney inquired about the results of the youth hunting mentoring program. Santucci said all hunters support the goals of the program. "The problem is if you don't have product on the shelf you're not going to hold their interest," he stated. "They are so frustrated because there is no game to hold the interest of the kids." Santucci noted "if you look at the mentor license sales, the permits averaged 31,945 over the past four years but they are not transmitting into junior license sales at anywhere near the pace of that."
Melody Schell, speaking on behalf of the Pennsylvania Federation of Sportsmen's Clubs, said the organization does not support "wildlife management via legislation" and spoke against all of the bills. "We believe much of the current controversies stem more from personality conflicts, power struggles, and lack of sufficient knowledge of the issues at hand," she stated. "Decisions are being based more on emotions than facts. That doesn't serve anyone well, neither the resources nor the residents of the Commonwealth. It is unnecessary and narrow minded to institute what we believe are legislative changes that will compromise our resources, our outdoor heritage and our rights, including our second amendment rights, in the future should these changes be implemented. Therefore we adamantly oppose any and all legislation that sets legislative mandates for wildlife management decisions, threatens the limited independence of our resources agencies, or merges the agencies, particularly a merger that would place them under the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources (DCNR)."
Chairman Causer said calling them "narrow-minded" in the testimony is "insulting to the committee" and added "statements like that in many ways make legislators feel that the Federation of Sportsmen's Clubs is irrelevant in many ways."
Rep. Moul noted that a great deal of farmland in his legislative district is leased by private organizations and clubs and more of deer management is privately administered. Schell said that she moved to Alabama from Pennsylvania and stated, "In Alabama there is no public land; if I want to hunt in Alabama I have to join a lease, but I don't think "deer management" is the cause of most leasing in PA."
Rep. Emrick questioned how many sportsmen's clubs are in Pennsylvania and asked how many are members of the Pennsylvania Federation of Sportsmen's Clubs. Schell said there are roughly 900 total and 200-250 are members of the organization.
Rep. Maloney took issue with the organization and said they have used "bullying" tactics to stifle legislation. "Your lobbyist called me anti-family," he stated. "I've been very clear about my passion for children and families and have worked very diligently on passing child protection bills that god willing will make it to the governor's desk and your paid lobbyist called me anti-family." Schell said she was not familiar with the incident but indicated that she would be open to discussing it in more detail.
3/19/14, 9:00 a.m., Room G-50 Irvis Office Building
By Matt Hess, PLS
The committee held a public hearing on Deer Management.
HB 870 Kula, Deberah - (PN 1013) Amends Title 34 (Game), in special licenses and permits, to remove state game lands from the Game Commissions Deer Management Area Permit program. Effective in 60 days. (PN 1013) Amends Title 34 (Game), in special licenses and permits, to remove state game lands from the Game Commissions Deer Management Area Permit program. Effective in 60 days.
HB 1146 Readshaw, Harry - (PN 1404) Amends Title 34 (Game) adding language providing a person who holds a valid Pennsylvania senior hunting license may hunt and kill with an authorized weapon one deer that has two or more points to one antler or that has one antler three or more inches in length during an antlered deer season. Effective in 60 days. (PN 1404) Amends Title 34 (Game) adding language providing a person who holds a valid Pennsylvania senior hunting license may hunt and kill with an authorized weapon one deer that has two or more points to one antler or that has one antler three or more inches in length during an antlered deer season. Effective in 60 days.
HB 1370 Kula, Deberah - (PN 1776) Amends Title 34 (Game), in Pennsylvania Game Commission, restricting doe (antlerless deer) season to only three days, and only permit its commencement after the conclusion of rifled buck (antlered deer) season. Effective in 60 days. (PN 1776) Amends Title 34 (Game), in Pennsylvania Game Commission, restricting doe (antlerless deer) season to only three days, and only permit its commencement after the conclusion of rifled buck (antlered deer) season. Effective in 60 days.
HB 1724 Maloney, David - (PN 2410) Amends Title 34 (Game) to provide that each county shall represent a separate wildlife management unit and instituting annual antlerless deer limits on a county-based wildlife management unit basis. Effective in 60 days. (PN 2410) Amends Title 34 (Game) to provide that each county shall represent a separate wildlife management unit and instituting annual antlerless deer limits on a county-based wildlife management unit basis. Effective in 60 days.
HB 1726 Maloney, David - (PN 2411) Amends Title 34 (Game) to state it shall be the duty of the Pennsylvania Game Commission to focus primarily on serving the interests of Pennsylvania sportsmen and the special heritage of hunting and furtaking. The legislation also requires the commission to ensure adequate game by providing for the maximum sustained yield system of wildlife management. Effective in 60 days. (PN 2411) Amends Title 34 (Game) to state it shall be the duty of the Pennsylvania Game Commission to focus primarily on serving the interests of Pennsylvania sportsmen and the special heritage of hunting and furtaking. The legislation also requires the commission to ensure adequate game by providing for the maximum sustained yield system of wildlife management. Effective in 60 days.
Chairman Causer said deer management is a priority for many citizens. "As legislators, deer management is probably the one topic we hear from our constituents the most," he stated. "There are a number of bills that have been introduced and referred to the committee dealing with deer management. I thought the most prudent thing is to have a hearing and discuss all of the bills that have been introduced."
Chairman Haluska said a number of the issues raised in the bills have been around for years. "I've seen a lot of these things come and go," he stated. "Some of these bills were actually talked about for years, we've taken action on some of them and we've made some changes over the years on some of the things they want to revert back to."
Calvin DuBrock, Director of Bureau of Wildlife Management, Pennsylvania Game Commission, said opinions on the issue of deer management vary and shared the findings from a Game Commission survey. "According to the responses in a 2011 survey of over 3,500 deer hunters, 50 percent were satisfied with current season and regulations, and 36 percent expressed overall satisfaction with the deer program, 33 percent were dissatisfied and 31 percent weren't sure," he stated. "Among Pennsylvania residents, satisfaction was high with opportunities to view or watch deer in Pennsylvania: 66 percent said that they were satisfied, while only ten percent were dissatisfied. 54 percent of Pennsylvania residents said the deer population in their area was just right. Otherwise, they were fairly evenly split, with 20 percent saying the deer population was too high, and 18 percent saying it was too low."
DuBrock emphasized that Pennsylvania's deer program is "science based" and highlighted the main goals of the program:
•Maintain healthy and sustainable deer populations;
•maintain healthy and sustainable forest habitats for the benefit of deer and other wildlife;
•Maintain acceptable levels of deer-human conflicts;
•Provide recreational opportunities to use and enjoy deer;
•Improve the public's understanding of the deer program.
"Based upon our most recent data, the deer program is achieving many of the public's goals," DuBrock stated. "At the management unit level, we see healthy and sustainable deer populations that are not causing unacceptable deer-human conflicts. These assessments are based on measures of fawn to doe ratios, deer population trends, and surveys of Pennsylvania citizens. We also are seeing positive responses regarding forest regeneration and the impact of deer on the forests in most wildlife management units (WMUs). In most WMUs, forest regeneration is considered good or, if regeneration is not good, deer impact is considered acceptable. These assessments are based on data collected by the US Forest Service on both public and private land across Pennsylvania."
DuBrock did not express support for House Bill 870, House Bill 1146, House Bill 1370, House Bill 1724 or House Bill 1726 but said the Commission is committed to receiving input on the deer management program. "We regularly ask for hunter input and adjust recommendations accordingly," he stated. "We are committed to an adaptive management approach that embraces change shaped by collaboration with hunters and the public that produces health deer and habitats that provide recreation without imposing economic hardship on our farm, forest and suburban landowners."
Chairman Causer questioned how the 2011 survey was conducted. DuBrock indicated that it was a telephone survey of 9,200 Pennsylvanians conducted by an outside vendor. Chris Rosenberry, Section Supervisor, Pennsylvania Game Commission, noted that in certain sections, such as 2G and 3A, citizens did say deer populations were too low and reiterated that the results were a statewide average.
Rep. Moul questioned why economic impact is not a consideration for the Game Commission in the deer management program. DuBrock said hunters are not the only driver of economic development and pointed out that an overpopulation of deer could negatively impact farming and do greater damage to the habitat. "We don't have a real metrics in terms of how deer directly contribute the economic well being of communities in the Commonwealth, but that's something we get anecdotally through surveys and people," he stated. "That's how we factor that in." Rep. Moul said a dearth of deer is having a negative impact and cited businesses that rent and own hunting cabins. Rosenberry noted that hunting licenses have decreased since 1982 and in many of those years the deer population was increasing. "As a deer management program there is a limit to what we can do," he stated. "Increasing the deer population is not going to solve the hunter number issue, it's more complex than that."
Rep. Kula, prime sponsor of House Bill 870, questioned how many DMAPs were reported on public lands. DuBrock stated "47 percent actually reported" and explained "they are required to report with DMAP, its mandatory reporting whether you harvest a deer or not." Rep. Kula opined that there could have been many more deer harvested than what was reported. DuBrock stated "theoretically, yes." Rep. Kula noted many constituents that are hunters have told her that they continue to attempt to hunt but they do not see any deer. "This bill will at least give us a chance to maybe bring up our deer population," she stated. "Something has to be done and I'm hoping the legislation we're reviewing here today will hopefully bring about more deer hunting here in the Commonwealth." DuBrock emphasized that the Game Commission is committed to increasing deer hunting in Pennsylvania. "This is a balancing act and something we grapple with everyday," he stated. "We would advocate that we continue to provide this tool to land owners across the Commonwealth whether they are public or private landowners."
Rep. Maloney urged the Game Commission to "listen to the hunters" and emphasized that a lack of deer is costing the state millions of dollars in economic activity. "It is your duty to fix our habitat," he stated. "Your own mastermind Gary Ault said this was done out of politics, not science."
Rep. Emrick disputed the credibility of the 2011 survey and "using that as a huge component of your decision to figure out if the deer herd appropriate," he stated. "The hunters are the experts; the hunters are the ultimate conservationists. The hunters are the ones who spend more time in the forest, in the fields, than anybody else. They can personally testify to what they experience. Why they are not the largest component of your deer management program, I have no idea but they should be."
Rep. Emrick questioned why there are no consequences for people who do not report under DMAP. DuBrock stated "when we did DMAP the initial year there were consequences; we were asked by members of the General Assembly and Commission members to exonerate people, give them a pass, and allow them to participate in the future." He added "in most units it's inconsequential in terms of the overall management decision because we are counting one to two percent of the overall antlerless harvest of the antlerless harvest within in a management unit." Rep. Emrick questioned how the Commission could get an accurate number when only 47 percent of people report and noted that other states require hunters to report. DuBrock noted that states such as Virginia, New York, and Wisconsin are attempting to emulate Pennsylvania's deer management program. Rosenberry noted that Pennsylvania, New York, and Ontario all use the estimate method. "All other states provide minimum counts for their harvest," he stated. "If we did that in Pennsylvania we would be operating off of 120,000 reports at this point." DuBrock added "we do need to figure a way to determine what the harvest was so we can make the best possible recommendation so we are managing this resource in the most responsible way." Rep. Emrick said the "deer population has plummeted" as a result of the Game Commission not changing its reporting method. DuBrock stated "that's not true.
Rep. Maloney questioned why the Game Commission has not conducted a predation study. DuBrock acknowledged that the commission has not conducted a predation study in the last decade but indicated he is aware of the issue. "It's impossible that the deer population is being decimated for us to continue to see hunter success rates remain relatively stable as they have over the last two decades," he stated. "It would be impossible to have a sustained harvest as we have every year."
Rep. Maloney reiterated that sportsmen should be the "number one stakeholders" when it comes to deer management. "The sportsmen are not being represented here," he stated. "What you're telling us today is so inconsistent: 'it's okay not to report DMAP but god help you if you do something wrong in the woods because we're coming after you.'" Rep. Maloney emphasized "the time is now to fix this,"
Randy Santucci, President, Unified Sportsmen of Pennsylvania, spoke in support of all the deer management related legislation and argued that the bills are "not extreme or over-reaching in nature, nor conceptually new" because they simply restitute "prove parameters" that previously existed for decades. "The wholesale changes implemented to institute today's failed value laden deer program, have proven not to be in the best interests of sportsmen or the commonwealth as a whole," he stated. "Large tracts of game-lands are still being purchased, while existing game-lands remain pathetically under managed for habitat, as the complement of food and over workers has steadily decreased, while positions are increased for biologists and foresters. Forest certification combined with a team of biologists that lacked an understanding that the biology must be balanced with social economic needs, has proven to be disastrous. We have the determinations of the November 2012 Independent Legislative Budget and Finance Committee study, revealing hundreds of millions of dollars of lost revenue to the state annually, compounding into billions over the last 13 years."
Rep. Lucas explained that he sponsored HR 576 because a constituent said he has difficulty getting off work on the first day of hunting season and acknowledged that the idea has not received a great deal of support. Santucci agreed that the proposal is not supported in the hunting community and indicated that it would have a negative impact on "deer hunting heritage."
Rep. Maloney inquired about the results of the youth hunting mentoring program. Santucci said all hunters support the goals of the program. "The problem is if you don't have product on the shelf you're not going to hold their interest," he stated. "They are so frustrated because there is no game to hold the interest of the kids." Santucci noted "if you look at the mentor license sales, the permits averaged 31,945 over the past four years but they are not transmitting into junior license sales at anywhere near the pace of that."
Melody Schell, speaking on behalf of the Pennsylvania Federation of Sportsmen's Clubs, said the organization does not support "wildlife management via legislation" and spoke against all of the bills. "We believe much of the current controversies stem more from personality conflicts, power struggles, and lack of sufficient knowledge of the issues at hand," she stated. "Decisions are being based more on emotions than facts. That doesn't serve anyone well, neither the resources nor the residents of the Commonwealth. It is unnecessary and narrow minded to institute what we believe are legislative changes that will compromise our resources, our outdoor heritage and our rights, including our second amendment rights, in the future should these changes be implemented. Therefore we adamantly oppose any and all legislation that sets legislative mandates for wildlife management decisions, threatens the limited independence of our resources agencies, or merges the agencies, particularly a merger that would place them under the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources (DCNR)."
Chairman Causer said calling them "narrow-minded" in the testimony is "insulting to the committee" and added "statements like that in many ways make legislators feel that the Federation of Sportsmen's Clubs is irrelevant in many ways."
Rep. Moul noted that a great deal of farmland in his legislative district is leased by private organizations and clubs and more of deer management is privately administered. Schell said that she moved to Alabama from Pennsylvania and stated, "In Alabama there is no public land; if I want to hunt in Alabama I have to join a lease, but I don't think "deer management" is the cause of most leasing in PA."
Rep. Emrick questioned how many sportsmen's clubs are in Pennsylvania and asked how many are members of the Pennsylvania Federation of Sportsmen's Clubs. Schell said there are roughly 900 total and 200-250 are members of the organization.
Rep. Maloney took issue with the organization and said they have used "bullying" tactics to stifle legislation. "Your lobbyist called me anti-family," he stated. "I've been very clear about my passion for children and families and have worked very diligently on passing child protection bills that god willing will make it to the governor's desk and your paid lobbyist called me anti-family." Schell said she was not familiar with the incident but indicated that she would be open to discussing it in more detail.