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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 8:03:02 GMT -5
Some random thoughts:
It seems that the lever action rifle is involved in most of the accidents....maybe lever actions should be banned.
Stats say that the safest hunters in the woods are junior hunters. The stats say that most hunting accidents occur in the 20+ years of experience...maybe the older demographic group should be made to attend a hunter safety course every 3 years. Mandatory eye exams would be a plus as well.
Some people spend thier lives worrying about what other are doing instead of tending to their own selves...Mind Your Business.
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Post by dougell on Mar 18, 2014 8:51:45 GMT -5
Older lever actions certainly need special attention.When I was a kid,most young hunters started out with a lever action..I never had a problem with it but my father sent a couple rounds into outer space with it.I don't think they're a good first choice for kids.
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Post by galthatfishes on Mar 18, 2014 14:35:08 GMT -5
Comments should be addressed (Subject Line- for Game Commissioners)
send to"
pgccomments@pa.gov
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Post by whilekioti on May 4, 2014 10:42:09 GMT -5
I remember the days when a guywould buy his wife a license, then shoot two bucks and two does. how is this maybe different than what may be occurring now? How is this different? Because NOW they can get MY licences for their kids and shoot 3 or MORE bucks and does, also they can shoot sub-legal AR bucks and have the MY tag it. I'm not against the MY program, but I do believe there should be a mininum age, and a maximum number of sub-legal AR bucks a MY can take. |
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Post by dougell on May 5, 2014 9:25:47 GMT -5
And what should that minimum age be?I can tell you that when this all first started,I was skeptical.Every kid is different and a year makes a huge difference.I tried to get my son shooting when he was 6 years old and he really struggled with it.By the time he was seven,he was getting proficient enough and really did understand "the reason" for being out there.I let him hunt when he was seven but expected very little.Honestly,he shocked me.He was serious,alert and really tried hard to learn.I had a blast and so did he.This past year he was 8 and the difference was even greater.I can honestly say that he doesn't handicap me or slow me down in the least.I don't even want to hunt anymore unless he's with me.We spend a lot of time in the woods and we also spend a lot of tie shooting.When you give them a chance and spend the time doing it,it's amazing how capable young kids really are.My son has been pretty successful the past two years and I've gotten some grief about it,primarily behind my back.People just refuse to believe that a kid that age can be that obsessed with the outdoors and successful at the same time.My wife put a couple pictures on face book last year and got some negative publicity about it.People either assume I'm turning him into a mass murderer or that I'm actually killing the game.Neither could be further from the truth.My son and I do all kinds of thing together but the time we spend hunting and fishing create the strongest bond by far.It's a shame people don't realize that
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Post by whilekioti on May 5, 2014 11:34:01 GMT -5
If your asking me, I don't feel qualifed to say what a mimimum age should be.
If your asking my opinion, I think 6 is too young, I agree every kid is different, and in order to protect the ones that maybe not ready, but pushed into hunting by a over anxious mentor, some may have to wait a year or two longer.
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Post by dougell on May 5, 2014 12:14:22 GMT -5
I think you answered your own question.Who,other than the parent is qualified to say what the minimum age should be?I do agree with you that some kids probably are pushed too early but I think that's rare.My son is 8 and he doesn't go school with one single kid that hunts,even though many of their fathers do.It takes a lot of time and work to get a kid ready to hunt.
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Post by whilekioti on May 5, 2014 16:13:49 GMT -5
While I agree that the parent should know when their child is ready, I still believe there should be a minimum age, i'm sure there are professionals in child development who can choose a appropriate age that most kids will be mature enough to hunt. In my opinion I think it is better to make some kids wait a year or two than start some who arn't ready and maybe traumatize some of them even if it may occur rarely.
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Post by melody on May 5, 2014 16:38:40 GMT -5
You don't want to go there Whilekioti. You start asking "professionals" that work in the "child development" field, and they will tell you a child is never old enough to hunt! Most are probably anti-hunting all together. It was the teachers union that put a kabosh to lowering the age of hunters years back when they tried to lower it to 10.
Parents are and always will be, the only ones who can/should make that decision based on each individual child. And yes, we all know some parents aren't responsible enough themselves, but let's not punish all kids because of a few bad ones.
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Post by Dutch on May 5, 2014 18:45:58 GMT -5
If your asking me, I don't feel qualifed to say what a mimimum age should be. If your asking my opinion, I think 6 is too young, I agree every kid is different, and in order to protect the ones that maybe not ready, but pushed into hunting by a over anxious mentor, some may have to wait a year or two longer. Permit sales stats show that VERY few are being purchased for the 6 and under crowd. 2000 statewide. |
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Post by whilekioti on May 5, 2014 19:26:10 GMT -5
You don't want to go there Whilekioti. You start asking "professionals" that work in the "child development" field, and they will tell you a child is never old enough to hunt! Most are probably anti-hunting all together. It was the teachers union that put a kabosh to lowering the age of hunters years back when they tried to lower it to 10. Parents are and always will be, the only ones who can/should make that decision based on each individual child. And yes, we all know some parents aren't responsible enough themselves, but let's not punish all kids because of a few bad ones. My opinion is my own, as is yours. I think there will be a minimum age set eventually, i'm sure that there are at least some in the field of child development that sympathizes with a childs desire to hunt, besides we wouldn't be asking for permission for a child to hunt only a minimum age limit, and I don't consider it punishment, but protection. |
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Post by galthatfishes on May 5, 2014 20:50:54 GMT -5
While I agree that the parent should know when their child is ready, I still believe there should be a minimum age, i'm sure there are professionals in child development who can choose a appropriate age that most kids will be mature enough to hunt. In my opinion I think it is better to make some kids wait a year or two than start some who arn't ready and maybe traumatize some of them even if it may occur rarely. I was pretty darned young. I "hunted" mice in the basement at the grandparents house. I bet I was baiting my own traps by the time I was 3 or 4. Thrilled the daylights out of me to hear the SNAP of that thing! |
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Post by dougell on May 6, 2014 9:30:10 GMT -5
While I agree that the parent should know when their child is ready, I still believe there should be a minimum age, i'm sure there are professionals in child development who can choose a appropriate age that most kids will be mature enough to hunt. In my opinion I think it is better to make some kids wait a year or two than start some who arn't ready and maybe traumatize some of them even if it may occur rarely. I really do see why you would think that way as I thought the same way a few years ago.Fortunately,my perspective has changed since I've taken this journey with my son.Here's the thing,demographics and society have both changed and hunting is no longer the same thing as it was 30 years ago.When I started hunting,everyone hunted and we couldn't wait til we were 12.Back then,hunting was a way of life and other than sports,we had very few distractions.We played outside and used our imagination.It isn't that way today.Kids don't play outside like they used to and hunting isn't cool anymore.Kids can turn on a commuter,stick their faces in an i-phone or play a violent video game with their buddies without even going to their house.We have a limited time frame to capture these kids and instill an appreciation and a desire to be in the outdoors.My son has been brainwashed and exposed to the outdoors since he was a baby.It's a way of life for him and truthfully,none of his friends understand it.They come over to hang out and you can't even get them to go outside.It's depressing.If an age limit was imposed,we would lose a lot of kids to the left wing liberal society that I so despise. My son is a typical 8 year old that isn't much different than most kids his age.He doesn't have superior intellect or physical capabilities.He just get's exposed to the outdoors more than most and is allowed and trusted to do things that many would consider ridiculous.Before I ever thought of letting him hunt,I made sure he had an appreciation for just being out there.I know that worked because there isn't a weekend day that he isn't asking to go out in the woods,go fishing,shooting or hitting a 3-d shoot.It's not about seeing piles of deer or killing something.It'd a year long mission full or preperation and I can honestly and proudly say that he get's it.He get's why we're out there and he also understands the importance of it.He killed a big gobbler on the first day of the youth season and we did it the hard way without any blinds or decoys.We had these birds scouted,ended up getting pinned down by a hen,repostioned several times and he made a shot that three years ago,I never would have dreamed possible.The only thing I really did was call.He set up to shoot on his own,took the shot when he was ready and had input on how to approach the situation.It was a team effort than panned out.There's nothing in the world like it.We went out this past saturday for about an hour because he had something to do at church.We called in a hen but didn't hear a gobble.As soon as his church thing was over,he had me rush home,grab our stuff and make it out for the last 30 minutes.I firmly believe part of his enthusiasm is just genetic.I also think. it has a lot to do with the amount of time we've spent doing this since he was just a little kid.At this point,it's just a big part of who he is and the mentor program is a big reason why.His enthusiasm is contageous.His 16 year old sister who never showed an interest is now starting shoot regularly,scout with us and is planing on hunting this year.If it wasn't for taking him out,she never would have gotten involved.My son and I are about as tight as you can get with a kid and still be their father.I have no doubt that the biggest contributing factor is the bond we have with the outdoors.I'd really hate to see any of that be taken away from people who want to take advantage of such a great opportunity. |
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Post by whilekioti on May 6, 2014 11:08:15 GMT -5
dougell: I respect your opinion, there is alot I agree with and some that I don't. I understand we need to expose our kids to the outdoors at a early age, as I did with my son, and there are many ways to do this, hunting is only one of them, and the kill is only a small but important part of hunting. What worries me is how the kill affects those kids who may not fully understand what it means, it could have the opposite affect we hope for.
IMO a minimum age wouldn't take away anything, only delay (the killing part of) hunting for some kids in order to protect others.
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Post by dougell on May 6, 2014 11:26:23 GMT -5
From an early age,I made sure my kids understood why we have to kill things but it's not the same until you do it yourself.My daughter is a bunny hugger and although she always understood why we do it,I wasn't sure if she'd be able kill something.That's why I never pushed the issue with her.I was concerned about my son as well.He killed his first deer when he was seven.He made a marginal hit and he had to put a finishing shot into her,which I made him do.He was excited and it didn't seem to bother him at the time.The next day on his way to school he asked me if I felt bad when I killed something.I knew where he was going with it and just reaffirmed what I'd been telling him since he was younger.I also made him realize that if he didn't feel some remorse,he wouldn't be human.He's been fine ever since.
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Post by Dutch on May 6, 2014 14:29:36 GMT -5
dougell: I respect your opinion, there is alot I agree with and some that I don't. I understand we need to expose our kids to the outdoors at a early age, as I did with my son, and there are many ways to do this, hunting is only one of them, and the kill is only a small but important part of hunting. What worries me is how the kill affects those kids who may not fully understand what it means, it could have the opposite affect we hope for. IMO a minimum age wouldn't take away anything, only delay (the killing part of) hunting for some kids in order to protect others. My daughter wanted to hunt when she was about 9. I couldn't take her, altho she saw plenty of dead stuff. When I finally did take her at 12, and after her thinking about it, she didn't want to kill something. I think we over think this "what will it do to them" issue. We allow them to kill fish at any age, but when it comes to furry things, it's another matter? I believe we over protect our kids from the true reality of life. I knew we killed stuff to eat at an early age and witnessed death of various things we ate, primarily chickens. But nowadays, we don';t want to expose our kids to these realities, when we really should. Farm kids get this exposure from day one and don't need to see a shrink about it. |
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Post by ridgecommander on May 6, 2014 18:03:43 GMT -5
What worries me is how the kill affects those kids who may not fully understand what it means, it could have the opposite affect we hope for. IMO a minimum age wouldn't take away anything, only delay (the killing part of) hunting for some kids in order to protect others. Do you also feel there should be a minimum age for fishing? |
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Post by whilekioti on May 6, 2014 18:45:52 GMT -5
What worries me is how the kill affects those kids who may not fully understand what it means, it could have the opposite affect we hope for. IMO a minimum age wouldn't take away anything, only delay (the killing part of) hunting for some kids in order to protect others. Do you also feel there should be a minimum age for fishing? No, but I have seen young kids cry when they saw a hooked fish, and a fish can be released. Seriously guys, I have put some though into this and this is my opinion. |
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Post by ridgecommander on May 6, 2014 19:40:29 GMT -5
Seriously guys, I have put some though into this and this is my opinion. Its all good. I was just pointing out that fishing often involves animals dying, and in most cases, suffering more so than with hunting. Folks usually don't give a second thought about fishing and kids but feel differently when it comes to hunting, as it relates to taking the lives of animals. |
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Post by cspot on May 6, 2014 20:06:43 GMT -5
My son who was 5 at the time showing my daughter who was 2 how to hold the rabbit for cleaning. Pretty sure she understood it when we ate it a few days later, how things work.  |
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Post by Dutch on May 6, 2014 20:10:59 GMT -5
Do you also feel there should be a minimum age for fishing? No, but I have seen young kids cry when they saw a hooked fish, and a fish can be released. Seriously guys, I have put some though into this and this is my opinion. I understand, but, not EVERY kid cries, and often, those that cry end up not caring the next time they kill a fish. Let's allow the parent to decide when THEIR kid is ready. |
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Post by bawanajim on May 6, 2014 20:32:03 GMT -5
Really ? I fished today, and no animals died that I was aware of. I did see an eagle catch a fish, I think that fish died.
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Post by ridgecommander on May 7, 2014 5:59:32 GMT -5
Really ? I fished today, and no animals died that I was aware of. I did see an eagle catch a fish, I think that fish died. Yes, really! I used to word "often" as often times fish are creeled. I would venture a pretty educated guess that way more than aniimals killed by mentored youth hunters. Point is fish are killed by young kids amd no one seems to care. If the animal has brown eyes and blinks, it becomes different. |
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Post by Dutch on May 7, 2014 10:59:46 GMT -5
Ridge, it is the invasion of Bambi into the hunter's mindset. It worries me.
It also comes into the hunters mindset when it comes to killing cub bears or fawns of the year.
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Post by galthatfishes on May 7, 2014 18:17:52 GMT -5
dougell: I respect your opinion, there is alot I agree with and some that I don't. I understand we need to expose our kids to the outdoors at a early age, as I did with my son, and there are many ways to do this, hunting is only one of them, and the kill is only a small but important part of hunting. What worries me is how the kill affects those kids who may not fully understand what it means, it could have the opposite affect we hope for. IMO a minimum age wouldn't take away anything, only delay (the killing part of) hunting for some kids in order to protect others. I am pretty sure that there are many folks who buy permits for their MY hunters so they have the same CID # from birth. I know I Bought a few that way, and in no way shape or form were they ever used. Several benefits. The PGC also gets matching PR monies for that and the kid grows up from birth believing they are a hunter. BTW, who needs protected? The MY hunting program has a fantastic safety record. |
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