Post by melody on Feb 19, 2014 21:12:05 GMT -5
House Game & Fisheries Committee
2/19/14, 9:00 a.m., Room 60 East Wing
By Jeff Cox, PLS
Members Present: Chairman Martin Causer (R-McKean), Minority Chairman Gary Haluska (D-Cambria), and Representatives Joe Emrick (R-Northampton), Hal English (R-Allegheny), Marc Gergely (D-Allegheny), Keith Gillespie (R-York), Marcia Hahn (R-Northampton), Doyle Heffley (R-Carbon), Deberah Kula (D-Fayette), Greg Lucas (R-Erie), David Maloney (R-Berks), and Dan Moul (R-Adams),
The committee conducted an informational meeting on the Pennsylvania Fish & Boat Commission's 2013 Annual Report.
John Arway, Executive Director, Pennsylvania Game Commission, noted the hard work and skill of commission staff which he said has helped the agency achieve significant results toward the implementation of its 2013 strategic plan. He detailed the commission's work in helping pass Act 89 with the commission's refund from Liquid Fuels Tax intact and the addition of a refund from the Oil Company Franchise Tax attributable to motorboat fuel, which he said will go toward "the systematic improvement and management of infrastructure and operations that support Pennsylvania boaters." He noted a number of capital projects resulting from the new funding under Act 89 with general boating-related programs supported from the money by the 2018-2019 fiscal year. Arway noted the Act 89 rationale will be extended to other money spent by anglers and boaters in Pennsylvania in future legislative advocacy by the commission.
Arway described the success of recently allowed multi-year licensing and detailed further marketing operations by the commission that will include an optional, extra-cost pin that can serve as proof of licensure by anglers. "We hope this nostalgic offering will be popular with anglers and add to the excitement as thoughts turn to warmer weather and time on the water this spring," he said. Arway went on to note money from Act 13 has allowed for a natural gas section to be formed within the commission to oversee drilling permits and he detailed the commission's involvement with the permitting process with the Department of Environmental Protection and the Susquehanna River Basin Commission.
Arway detailed increasing personnel costs and relayed that the commission cannot afford to conduct a new Waterways Conservation Officer (WCO) class. He reported there are currently 13 WCO vacancies and one investigator vacancy. He explained the commission is trying to leverage outside funding and grants for commission programs. He noted the success of the lifetime fishing license for those age 65 or older and how the cost of trout production continues to rise. He discussed programs to voluntarily charge for a youth fishing license and the need for unique customer identification numbers to more adequately track customer needs.
Rep. Kula commented that she has heard from a lot of different anglers in her area expressing concern with the weather during this winter. She wanted to know how the commission is dealing with the ice conditions with streams, particularly trout streams. Arway said the commission's trucks start rolling March 1 to stock the streams. He added that the commission is still on schedule to do that but may have to make adjustments for places where the trout drivers cannot get to. Arway explained that those adjustments will be made as they go through the season and the commission will post them on its website. He told the committee, "I am confident we will get to the majority of the areas but there may be some exceptions we may not get to but we will try to post those announcements as soon as we can." Rep. Kula noted people in her area were pleased with the success of the "Fish for Free" days. She asked if the commission is considering expanding those days. Arway explained that it was the outcome of a national program that all of the states used. He further explained that in the past couple of years the commission has tried to coordinate the days with the holidays. According to Arway, the commission tried Memorial Day and Labor Day two years ago and last year tried Memorial Day and the 4th of July. He told the committee the commission is going to try to adjust those days to get more people fishing and boating without cutting into license sales. Arway noted that he is not sure that more days can be added but the commission is open to suggestions from legislators. Rep. Kula called "Fish for Free" a "great program" and suggested the commission keep legislators informed of those days so they can help promote it within their districts. Arway provided a brief overview of the Mentored Youth Trout Fishing Day program instituted by the commission last year.
Rep. Moul recounted a trip he took to northwest Pennsylvania to do some fishing and came to find out there were some streams that his friends and he were not entitled to fish in because the land on both sides of the stream were leased by independent operators which virtually closed off the streams that had been stocked. He said he is in the process of writing a piece of legislation that would make streams with stocked fish navigable so the public would have access to those stocked fish. Rep. Moul asked Arway about his thoughts on his proposal. Arway responded, "I would love to see you do it." He added that he understands that there are some private property rights that have to be recognized and those landowners have the right to post their properties on non-navigable waters. Arway explained that if the waters were navigable the landowners would have to keep those waters open to the high water mark. He expressed the commission's willingness to work with Rep. Moul to resolve the conflict.
Rep. Gergely told Rep. Moul he has information on navigable waters that he would share and said he would be happy to work with Rep. Moul on his legislation. He then wanted to know the cost per trout to the commission for trout stocking. According to Arway, it is $2.73 per trout. Rep. Gergely commented that he does not understand why that cost is the same as Laurel Hill Trout Farm, which is a commercial dealer. He pointed out that the cost for an 11-inch trout at Laurel Hill is $2.70 and for a 12-inch trout it is $3.10 and the company is paying for personnel, taxes, and other things a public agency does not. Rep. Gergely asked how the commission has the same costs of a commercial hatchery. Arway responded that the commission has more expenses that go with raising fish including the sophisticated treatment systems they are required to put in place. He said the commission spends a lot of money on electricity for pumps at the hatcheries that private companies don't spend. Arway pointed out that ten years ago the commission put out a proposal to private fish farms to see if they would be willing to raise, grow and deliver trout to Pennsylvania streams for a contracted price. According to Arway, the commission hired a fish farm from North Carolina and they were able to produce a fish for a lot less than the cost that the commission could do it. He said the company was under contract for five years and things worked out well but when it was put out to bid again the cost was a lot more than the commission doing it itself. Rep. Gergely then asked when the trout stamp was last increased. Arway said it was 2005. He added that the commission calculated that if the trout program would become self-sufficient the stamp would have to be set a little over $20.
With the increases in the costs for the commission to produce fish and the limited opportunities for co-ops, Rep. Heffley wanted to know what other alternatives there are other than raising the price of license fees and what opportunities the commission sees to stock more fish at a lower cost. Arway agreed that raising licensing fees discourages fishing. He said that in terms of getting more people to fish the commission is looking at analysis from across the country which says the fish have to be closer to the people, so the commission is looking at adjusting stocking to get the trout closer to people who fish for them. Arway said the commission "would love to get more co-ops in the program." He added it cannot be legislated but depends on public interest and recruitment. Arway noted the commission has an internal work group of commissioners and staff looking at the issue. Rep. Heffley asked if the commission has any plan to look at co-ops. Arway said it is not the commission's call and the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) makes the decision on siting a facility. He added that the commission supports DEP because the commission is "a conservation and recreation agency."
Rep. Heffley commented that more and more people he has spoken are not fishing and expressed concern with "the culture at the Fish and Boat Commission." He asked if the commission has done any studies on the interaction between wild trout and stock trout in a stream and the culture at the commission of not wanting to introduce stock trout into a wild trout stream. Arway responded that the commission has had a policy for many years that recognized there is some interaction between stock trout and wild trout and made a conscious decision not to stock Class A streams. He noted those streams are less than two percent of the 86,000 miles of streams in the Commonwealth. Arway also pointed out the board is considering a policy on how to stock some streams while protecting the wild trout that are in those streams. He said the policy has been published and the commission is seeking public comment.
Rep. Heffley expressed concern with the influence of Trout Unlimited on the commission. He wanted to know how many members of the commission are members of that organization. Arway did not know. Rep. Heffley asserted that Trout Unlimited is "more of a fringe environmental group" and asked if there is conflict over their influence on the commission. Arway said no. He pointed out he is a lifetime member of Trout Unlimited and said there are "extremes within any group." Arway commented that Trout Unlimited is for clean water and so is the commission. Rep. Heffley responded that he is not concerned with Trout Unlimited or other interest groups but "what's best for anglers." He reiterated his belief that the commission is too much influenced by Trout Unlimited.
Rep. Emrick told Arway, "I have deep, deep reservations about the classifying of streams as Class A." He spoke about a stream in the heart of his legislative district that is potentially going to be reclassified as a Class A stream and will no longer be stocked. Rep. Emrick noted the stream has been stocked for decades and has had no adverse impact on the native species. He argued the need for "grandfathering" streams that have been stocked and asked that the commission seriously consider the circumstances before reclassifying such streams.
Rep. Maloney commended the commission for its efforts in getting youth involved in fishing. He then went on to describe DEP regulations on clean water as "unreasonable." Rep. Maloney also expressed concern with the influence of Trout Unlimited and the reclassifying of streams and not allowing stock trout. He argued the commission needs get its original mission back in place. Arway responded that "it is not all gloom and doom." He said people are fishing but admitted the commission is "treading water" when it comes to licenses but the commission is working on increasing the numbers. Arway also pointed out that there has never been a study showing a correlation between stocking and an increased number of fishing licenses.
Rep. Gillespie noted that in his testimony Arway indicated the commission has 13 WCO vacancies and one investigator vacancy. He wanted to know the cost of running a class for WCOs and the cost of hiring a WCO. Arway said the cost for the class is $1 million and the cost for pay and benefits for a WCO is $75,000. Rep. Gillespie then asked what revenue would be needed to conduct a class and to fill the vacancies. Arway explained any increase leads to a loss of sales, but gains revenue. He noted that to just meet pension costs the commission would have to raise general licensing fees by $14. He added he cannot fill the vacancies with the other obligations he has to meet. Rep. Gillespie asked about the fee for the trout stamp for seniors. Arway said it is $8.
Rep. Gillespie wanted to know the number of water-related fatalities in 2013. Arway responded that he believes it was about 22, which he said was a spike over the previous year. He said about a third of those were alcohol or drug related.
Rep. Gillespie asked about the snake head situation. Arway explained that they have only shown up in the lower Delaware and have not advanced much further north, but time will tell. He said that hopefully with the type of winter the Commonwealth has had the snake heads will remain to the south.
Chairman Causer commended the commission for not closing the hatcheries in Bellefonte and Oswayo as was planned last year. He then asked about the Water Access Program and how it works. Brian Barner, Deputy Director, Office of Administration, explained that there are three agreements in place and he provided an overview of the current program. Arway added there is a need to value water. According to Arway, urban centers around the world are looking at a water deficit and there is a need to pay attention to how water is being used.
Noting the commission has been looking at alternative funding streams, Chairman Causer wanted to know if Arway had any additional ideas. Arway responded, "There are ton of ideas but the question is: are any of them workable?" He pointed to the sales tax model enacted in Virginia and explained that state reinvests up to $13 million annually from state sales tax collected on the sale of fishing, hunting and wildlife-watching equipment. He also spoke about the need for help in meeting the commission's pension obligations. Chairman Causer cautioned, "Be careful what you ask for." He said if the commission begins receiving General Fund dollars there would be more oversight. Chairman Causer spoke about the possibility of merging the Game Commission and the Fish & Boat Commission. He noted the Legislative Budget & Finance Committee is scheduled to release its report on a merger next month. Arway commented that he has seen the report and he looks forward to discussing it with the committee.
Chairman Causer commented that he knows the commission's position on House Bill 1576, which he explained amends the Endangered Species Coordination Act. According to Chairman Causer, many organizations say the process is broken. He argued that many believe there is a need for more openness and transparency in the system and questioned why the Game Commission and the Fish & Boat Commission are not part of the regulatory review process. Chairman Causer said the commission's opposition would appear that they are trying to hide something. Arway countered that the commission does have a review process and the board does ask for public comments on its proposals. He noted that none of the commission's decisions under the Act have been challenged. Chairman Causer then asked what recourse someone has when the commission makes a decision under the Act. Arway said there is an appeals process and a person receives due process. He argued that the commission believes the decisions made under the Act have been factual decisions. Chairman Causer argued that the committee has no role in the current process and the only remedy is to propose legislation to abrogate the regulation. He asserted that the regulatory review process "is not perfect" but it has checks and balances. Arway countered that the legislation creates a process that is not needed and creates a redundant process. Chairman Causer said every state agency should go through the regulatory review process.
Noting the commission has the Boat Fund and the Fish Fund, Chairman Haluska asked about the difficulties with administering the two funds. Arway compared it to having two savings accounts. He explained how they have to determine what is paid out of two funds for salaries and other expenses. Arway explained the WCOs are paid 60 percent from the Boat Fund and 40 percent from the Fish Fund. He admitted it costs more time and money to administer the two funds. Chairman Haluska noted the funds were created by the General Assembly and suggested the committee take a look at it again to make it more efficient. He pointed out the overlap between anglers and boaters. Arway interjected that 70 percent of the boaters have fishing licenses.
Chairman Haluska asked if there are seven vacancies in the commission's current complement. Arway said there are seven in law enforcement across the state. Chairman Haluska wanted to know what the number will be with impending retirement over the next few years. Cory Britcher, Director of Law Enforcement, said he has 30 people who could retire this year and that number goes up to 41 people over the next four years. Chairman Haluska spoke about the need for a new class. He then asked about deputies. Britcher said the commission is down to about 95 deputies.
Chairman Haluska commented on the need to consider an incremental increase in licenses. He described the trout stamp as "a helluva value." Chairman Haluska asserted, "People have to understand that costs are going up."
Rep. Lucas commented that there are two hatcheries in his area and "there is no problem in northwest Pennsylvania." He invited the committee members to come to his are to hunt and to fish.
Rep. Gergely said he comes from an area that has a lot of urban fishing. He wanted to know at what point people stop buying licenses. Arway described Pennsylvania as "a trout state." He pointed out there was an eight percent to ten percent decline after the last fee increase. He commented, "There is a tipping point but we don't know what it is." Rep. Gergely pointed out that Allegheny County has the largest number of individuals with fishing licenses. He said he wants to see the commission succeed. Rep. Gergely spoke about the need for the numbers regarding the cost of stocking. Arway said he would get the numbers. He noted the commission has not cut production and still stocks 3.2 million trout each year.
Rep. Maloney said there is a need for more oversight and how he sees the need for House Bill 1576. Regarding public comments, Rep. Maloney asserted that his constituents feel that when they do have their say they are ignored and the board does what it wants to do.
Rep. Moul asked if any consideration has been given to developing a hybrid trout so there would be more trout in the streams. He noted how many stock trout cannot "winter over." Arway explained how Michigan stopped stocking and allowed nature to take its course. He further explained the difficulty for hatching trout to adapt. Arway said anglers expect catchable trout when they fish.
Rep. English asked if any analysis has been done on the impact of stocking. Arway said the commission used to release the numbers being stocked and where but it became a "numbers game." He added that it created an expectation and then it became a competition over where the stocking should take place.
Chairman Causer concluded the hearing by commenting that there seems to be concern that about the commission's mission and how it is being met. He spoke of the need for the commission to refocus and to serve anglers and expressed concern that the perception is the commission is "becoming an environmental group.
2/19/14, 9:00 a.m., Room 60 East Wing
By Jeff Cox, PLS
Members Present: Chairman Martin Causer (R-McKean), Minority Chairman Gary Haluska (D-Cambria), and Representatives Joe Emrick (R-Northampton), Hal English (R-Allegheny), Marc Gergely (D-Allegheny), Keith Gillespie (R-York), Marcia Hahn (R-Northampton), Doyle Heffley (R-Carbon), Deberah Kula (D-Fayette), Greg Lucas (R-Erie), David Maloney (R-Berks), and Dan Moul (R-Adams),
The committee conducted an informational meeting on the Pennsylvania Fish & Boat Commission's 2013 Annual Report.
John Arway, Executive Director, Pennsylvania Game Commission, noted the hard work and skill of commission staff which he said has helped the agency achieve significant results toward the implementation of its 2013 strategic plan. He detailed the commission's work in helping pass Act 89 with the commission's refund from Liquid Fuels Tax intact and the addition of a refund from the Oil Company Franchise Tax attributable to motorboat fuel, which he said will go toward "the systematic improvement and management of infrastructure and operations that support Pennsylvania boaters." He noted a number of capital projects resulting from the new funding under Act 89 with general boating-related programs supported from the money by the 2018-2019 fiscal year. Arway noted the Act 89 rationale will be extended to other money spent by anglers and boaters in Pennsylvania in future legislative advocacy by the commission.
Arway described the success of recently allowed multi-year licensing and detailed further marketing operations by the commission that will include an optional, extra-cost pin that can serve as proof of licensure by anglers. "We hope this nostalgic offering will be popular with anglers and add to the excitement as thoughts turn to warmer weather and time on the water this spring," he said. Arway went on to note money from Act 13 has allowed for a natural gas section to be formed within the commission to oversee drilling permits and he detailed the commission's involvement with the permitting process with the Department of Environmental Protection and the Susquehanna River Basin Commission.
Arway detailed increasing personnel costs and relayed that the commission cannot afford to conduct a new Waterways Conservation Officer (WCO) class. He reported there are currently 13 WCO vacancies and one investigator vacancy. He explained the commission is trying to leverage outside funding and grants for commission programs. He noted the success of the lifetime fishing license for those age 65 or older and how the cost of trout production continues to rise. He discussed programs to voluntarily charge for a youth fishing license and the need for unique customer identification numbers to more adequately track customer needs.
Rep. Kula commented that she has heard from a lot of different anglers in her area expressing concern with the weather during this winter. She wanted to know how the commission is dealing with the ice conditions with streams, particularly trout streams. Arway said the commission's trucks start rolling March 1 to stock the streams. He added that the commission is still on schedule to do that but may have to make adjustments for places where the trout drivers cannot get to. Arway explained that those adjustments will be made as they go through the season and the commission will post them on its website. He told the committee, "I am confident we will get to the majority of the areas but there may be some exceptions we may not get to but we will try to post those announcements as soon as we can." Rep. Kula noted people in her area were pleased with the success of the "Fish for Free" days. She asked if the commission is considering expanding those days. Arway explained that it was the outcome of a national program that all of the states used. He further explained that in the past couple of years the commission has tried to coordinate the days with the holidays. According to Arway, the commission tried Memorial Day and Labor Day two years ago and last year tried Memorial Day and the 4th of July. He told the committee the commission is going to try to adjust those days to get more people fishing and boating without cutting into license sales. Arway noted that he is not sure that more days can be added but the commission is open to suggestions from legislators. Rep. Kula called "Fish for Free" a "great program" and suggested the commission keep legislators informed of those days so they can help promote it within their districts. Arway provided a brief overview of the Mentored Youth Trout Fishing Day program instituted by the commission last year.
Rep. Moul recounted a trip he took to northwest Pennsylvania to do some fishing and came to find out there were some streams that his friends and he were not entitled to fish in because the land on both sides of the stream were leased by independent operators which virtually closed off the streams that had been stocked. He said he is in the process of writing a piece of legislation that would make streams with stocked fish navigable so the public would have access to those stocked fish. Rep. Moul asked Arway about his thoughts on his proposal. Arway responded, "I would love to see you do it." He added that he understands that there are some private property rights that have to be recognized and those landowners have the right to post their properties on non-navigable waters. Arway explained that if the waters were navigable the landowners would have to keep those waters open to the high water mark. He expressed the commission's willingness to work with Rep. Moul to resolve the conflict.
Rep. Gergely told Rep. Moul he has information on navigable waters that he would share and said he would be happy to work with Rep. Moul on his legislation. He then wanted to know the cost per trout to the commission for trout stocking. According to Arway, it is $2.73 per trout. Rep. Gergely commented that he does not understand why that cost is the same as Laurel Hill Trout Farm, which is a commercial dealer. He pointed out that the cost for an 11-inch trout at Laurel Hill is $2.70 and for a 12-inch trout it is $3.10 and the company is paying for personnel, taxes, and other things a public agency does not. Rep. Gergely asked how the commission has the same costs of a commercial hatchery. Arway responded that the commission has more expenses that go with raising fish including the sophisticated treatment systems they are required to put in place. He said the commission spends a lot of money on electricity for pumps at the hatcheries that private companies don't spend. Arway pointed out that ten years ago the commission put out a proposal to private fish farms to see if they would be willing to raise, grow and deliver trout to Pennsylvania streams for a contracted price. According to Arway, the commission hired a fish farm from North Carolina and they were able to produce a fish for a lot less than the cost that the commission could do it. He said the company was under contract for five years and things worked out well but when it was put out to bid again the cost was a lot more than the commission doing it itself. Rep. Gergely then asked when the trout stamp was last increased. Arway said it was 2005. He added that the commission calculated that if the trout program would become self-sufficient the stamp would have to be set a little over $20.
With the increases in the costs for the commission to produce fish and the limited opportunities for co-ops, Rep. Heffley wanted to know what other alternatives there are other than raising the price of license fees and what opportunities the commission sees to stock more fish at a lower cost. Arway agreed that raising licensing fees discourages fishing. He said that in terms of getting more people to fish the commission is looking at analysis from across the country which says the fish have to be closer to the people, so the commission is looking at adjusting stocking to get the trout closer to people who fish for them. Arway said the commission "would love to get more co-ops in the program." He added it cannot be legislated but depends on public interest and recruitment. Arway noted the commission has an internal work group of commissioners and staff looking at the issue. Rep. Heffley asked if the commission has any plan to look at co-ops. Arway said it is not the commission's call and the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) makes the decision on siting a facility. He added that the commission supports DEP because the commission is "a conservation and recreation agency."
Rep. Heffley commented that more and more people he has spoken are not fishing and expressed concern with "the culture at the Fish and Boat Commission." He asked if the commission has done any studies on the interaction between wild trout and stock trout in a stream and the culture at the commission of not wanting to introduce stock trout into a wild trout stream. Arway responded that the commission has had a policy for many years that recognized there is some interaction between stock trout and wild trout and made a conscious decision not to stock Class A streams. He noted those streams are less than two percent of the 86,000 miles of streams in the Commonwealth. Arway also pointed out the board is considering a policy on how to stock some streams while protecting the wild trout that are in those streams. He said the policy has been published and the commission is seeking public comment.
Rep. Heffley expressed concern with the influence of Trout Unlimited on the commission. He wanted to know how many members of the commission are members of that organization. Arway did not know. Rep. Heffley asserted that Trout Unlimited is "more of a fringe environmental group" and asked if there is conflict over their influence on the commission. Arway said no. He pointed out he is a lifetime member of Trout Unlimited and said there are "extremes within any group." Arway commented that Trout Unlimited is for clean water and so is the commission. Rep. Heffley responded that he is not concerned with Trout Unlimited or other interest groups but "what's best for anglers." He reiterated his belief that the commission is too much influenced by Trout Unlimited.
Rep. Emrick told Arway, "I have deep, deep reservations about the classifying of streams as Class A." He spoke about a stream in the heart of his legislative district that is potentially going to be reclassified as a Class A stream and will no longer be stocked. Rep. Emrick noted the stream has been stocked for decades and has had no adverse impact on the native species. He argued the need for "grandfathering" streams that have been stocked and asked that the commission seriously consider the circumstances before reclassifying such streams.
Rep. Maloney commended the commission for its efforts in getting youth involved in fishing. He then went on to describe DEP regulations on clean water as "unreasonable." Rep. Maloney also expressed concern with the influence of Trout Unlimited and the reclassifying of streams and not allowing stock trout. He argued the commission needs get its original mission back in place. Arway responded that "it is not all gloom and doom." He said people are fishing but admitted the commission is "treading water" when it comes to licenses but the commission is working on increasing the numbers. Arway also pointed out that there has never been a study showing a correlation between stocking and an increased number of fishing licenses.
Rep. Gillespie noted that in his testimony Arway indicated the commission has 13 WCO vacancies and one investigator vacancy. He wanted to know the cost of running a class for WCOs and the cost of hiring a WCO. Arway said the cost for the class is $1 million and the cost for pay and benefits for a WCO is $75,000. Rep. Gillespie then asked what revenue would be needed to conduct a class and to fill the vacancies. Arway explained any increase leads to a loss of sales, but gains revenue. He noted that to just meet pension costs the commission would have to raise general licensing fees by $14. He added he cannot fill the vacancies with the other obligations he has to meet. Rep. Gillespie asked about the fee for the trout stamp for seniors. Arway said it is $8.
Rep. Gillespie wanted to know the number of water-related fatalities in 2013. Arway responded that he believes it was about 22, which he said was a spike over the previous year. He said about a third of those were alcohol or drug related.
Rep. Gillespie asked about the snake head situation. Arway explained that they have only shown up in the lower Delaware and have not advanced much further north, but time will tell. He said that hopefully with the type of winter the Commonwealth has had the snake heads will remain to the south.
Chairman Causer commended the commission for not closing the hatcheries in Bellefonte and Oswayo as was planned last year. He then asked about the Water Access Program and how it works. Brian Barner, Deputy Director, Office of Administration, explained that there are three agreements in place and he provided an overview of the current program. Arway added there is a need to value water. According to Arway, urban centers around the world are looking at a water deficit and there is a need to pay attention to how water is being used.
Noting the commission has been looking at alternative funding streams, Chairman Causer wanted to know if Arway had any additional ideas. Arway responded, "There are ton of ideas but the question is: are any of them workable?" He pointed to the sales tax model enacted in Virginia and explained that state reinvests up to $13 million annually from state sales tax collected on the sale of fishing, hunting and wildlife-watching equipment. He also spoke about the need for help in meeting the commission's pension obligations. Chairman Causer cautioned, "Be careful what you ask for." He said if the commission begins receiving General Fund dollars there would be more oversight. Chairman Causer spoke about the possibility of merging the Game Commission and the Fish & Boat Commission. He noted the Legislative Budget & Finance Committee is scheduled to release its report on a merger next month. Arway commented that he has seen the report and he looks forward to discussing it with the committee.
Chairman Causer commented that he knows the commission's position on House Bill 1576, which he explained amends the Endangered Species Coordination Act. According to Chairman Causer, many organizations say the process is broken. He argued that many believe there is a need for more openness and transparency in the system and questioned why the Game Commission and the Fish & Boat Commission are not part of the regulatory review process. Chairman Causer said the commission's opposition would appear that they are trying to hide something. Arway countered that the commission does have a review process and the board does ask for public comments on its proposals. He noted that none of the commission's decisions under the Act have been challenged. Chairman Causer then asked what recourse someone has when the commission makes a decision under the Act. Arway said there is an appeals process and a person receives due process. He argued that the commission believes the decisions made under the Act have been factual decisions. Chairman Causer argued that the committee has no role in the current process and the only remedy is to propose legislation to abrogate the regulation. He asserted that the regulatory review process "is not perfect" but it has checks and balances. Arway countered that the legislation creates a process that is not needed and creates a redundant process. Chairman Causer said every state agency should go through the regulatory review process.
Noting the commission has the Boat Fund and the Fish Fund, Chairman Haluska asked about the difficulties with administering the two funds. Arway compared it to having two savings accounts. He explained how they have to determine what is paid out of two funds for salaries and other expenses. Arway explained the WCOs are paid 60 percent from the Boat Fund and 40 percent from the Fish Fund. He admitted it costs more time and money to administer the two funds. Chairman Haluska noted the funds were created by the General Assembly and suggested the committee take a look at it again to make it more efficient. He pointed out the overlap between anglers and boaters. Arway interjected that 70 percent of the boaters have fishing licenses.
Chairman Haluska asked if there are seven vacancies in the commission's current complement. Arway said there are seven in law enforcement across the state. Chairman Haluska wanted to know what the number will be with impending retirement over the next few years. Cory Britcher, Director of Law Enforcement, said he has 30 people who could retire this year and that number goes up to 41 people over the next four years. Chairman Haluska spoke about the need for a new class. He then asked about deputies. Britcher said the commission is down to about 95 deputies.
Chairman Haluska commented on the need to consider an incremental increase in licenses. He described the trout stamp as "a helluva value." Chairman Haluska asserted, "People have to understand that costs are going up."
Rep. Lucas commented that there are two hatcheries in his area and "there is no problem in northwest Pennsylvania." He invited the committee members to come to his are to hunt and to fish.
Rep. Gergely said he comes from an area that has a lot of urban fishing. He wanted to know at what point people stop buying licenses. Arway described Pennsylvania as "a trout state." He pointed out there was an eight percent to ten percent decline after the last fee increase. He commented, "There is a tipping point but we don't know what it is." Rep. Gergely pointed out that Allegheny County has the largest number of individuals with fishing licenses. He said he wants to see the commission succeed. Rep. Gergely spoke about the need for the numbers regarding the cost of stocking. Arway said he would get the numbers. He noted the commission has not cut production and still stocks 3.2 million trout each year.
Rep. Maloney said there is a need for more oversight and how he sees the need for House Bill 1576. Regarding public comments, Rep. Maloney asserted that his constituents feel that when they do have their say they are ignored and the board does what it wants to do.
Rep. Moul asked if any consideration has been given to developing a hybrid trout so there would be more trout in the streams. He noted how many stock trout cannot "winter over." Arway explained how Michigan stopped stocking and allowed nature to take its course. He further explained the difficulty for hatching trout to adapt. Arway said anglers expect catchable trout when they fish.
Rep. English asked if any analysis has been done on the impact of stocking. Arway said the commission used to release the numbers being stocked and where but it became a "numbers game." He added that it created an expectation and then it became a competition over where the stocking should take place.
Chairman Causer concluded the hearing by commenting that there seems to be concern that about the commission's mission and how it is being met. He spoke of the need for the commission to refocus and to serve anglers and expressed concern that the perception is the commission is "becoming an environmental group.