Senate Committee Reports Out Nominations Of DEP & DCNR Sec

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Senate Committee Reports Out Nominations Of Abruzzo For DEP, Ferretti For DCNR
Posted: 04 Dec 2013 10:02 AM PST

The Senate Environmental Resources and Energy Committee Wednesday reported out the nominations of Chris Abruzzo to be Secretary of Environmental Protection and Ellen Ferretti as Secretary of Conservation and Natural Resources by a nearly unanimous, bipartisan vote for consideration by the Senate Rules Committee and then the full Senate.
The motions to report the nominations came from Sen. Gene Yaw (R-Lycoming), Majority Chair, and Sen. John Yudichak (D-Luzerne), Minority Chair.

Sen. Daylin Leach (D-Montgomery) voted against the Abruzzo nomination “as a matter of conscience” because of his concerns about the Corbett Administration’s position on climate change issues.

Senators of both parties generally praised the nominees for their suitability to the positions, in the case of Abruzzo for his background as a township commissioner and a former prosecutor and Ferretti for her life-long work on environmental issues in the public, non-profit and private sectors.

Most of the questions for both nominees revolved around Marcellus Shale development and regulation.

Sen. Jim Ferlo (D-Allegheny), Sen. Andrew Dinniman (D-Chester) and Sen. Leach all expressed concerns about the large portion of DCNR’s budget now coming from natural gas royalties from drilling on State Forest land. They each asked if that sets up a potential conflict with how the agency manages its public lands.

Acting DCNR Secretary Ferretti said the General Assembly passed and the Governor signed the budget using Oil and Gas Fund revenues to pay for her agency’s operations. She noted there has been no additional leasing of State Forest land for drilling since the Corbett Administration came to office. She said all the activity now on DCNR land is the result of leasing done in the past.

Senators Ferlo, Dinniman and Leach also asked if Ferretti would support enacting a moratorium on future gas drilling. Ferretti said the Executive Order signed by Gov. Rendell prohibiting further leasing on State Forest land remains in effect and added, in response to follow-up questions, she would certainly consult with the Governor’s Office if there were any changes proposed.

Gov. Rendell issued the Executive Order imposing the moratorium 10 days before the 2010 gubernatorial election and after he leased 137,896 acres of State Forest land for drilling. He announced his general support for a moratorium earlier that year on the same day he announced the leasing of the last 32,896 acres.

Sen. Dinniman asked Acting Secretary Abruzzo for his commitment to improve citizen access to information about proposed natural gas pipeline projects in light of past difficulties his constituents had in becoming aware of proposed pipeline routes and hearings on those proposals. He also expressed concern about additional water runoff that he said was coming from these projects.

Abruzzo said he would take a leadership role in dealing with these issues and noted earlier in the hearing he took immediate steps when he came to the agency in April as Acting Secretary to improve transparency and public participation.

Sen. Yaw followed-up by saying some of the pipelines of concern to Sen. Dinniman were regulated by the federal government or the Public Utility Commission, in some cases, and he would be happy to talk with the Senator again about his concerns.

Sen. Yudichak asked for the status of the Auditor General’s audit of DEP’s water programs related to the Marcellus Shale drilling program. Abruzzo said the agency has cooperated fully with the Auditor General. He said the agency’s program continues to evolve and he would welcome recommendations made by the Auditor General.

Senators Yudichak and Ferlo asked for more information on air monitoring related to natural gas drilling and transportation facilities and for an update on the radiation study DEP is conducting on drill cuttings and wastewater.

Abruzzo said he would provide more detail separately, but noted the radiation study would probably be completed next August.

Other Issues Raised

In response to a question from Sen. Leach on whether he thought climate change was real and that humans had a role in causing the problem, Abruzzo said he would not argue there isn’t climate change and that human’s contribute to that change.

Abruzzo said although he had not seen the scientific studies, there are adverse aspects of climate change.

Asked whether he supported an increase in the renewable energy purchases by utilities through the Alternative Energy Portfolio Standards, Abruzzo said he was not opposed to it, but those decisions have economic and other consequences.

Other issues raised included--
-- Act 537 Sewage Planning: Sen. Yudichak said many local officials express concerns about the inconsistency of interpretations of sewage regulations between DEP offices and noted as a local official Abruzzo would have a perspective on that issue. Abruzzo said he understood the issue well and noted most of the problems revolve around a breakdown of communications that he is working hard to change.
-- Counting Existing BMPs: Sen. Elder Vogel (R-Beaver) asked for the plans DEP has to do a better job accounting for the nutrient and sediment reductions farmers have already made by installing best management practices on their farms. Abruzzo said DEP and the Department of Agriculture plan an Agricultural Summit in January to take up that issue and share information on new BMPs farmers are using to reduce pollution to better account for their results in meeting Chesapeake Bay cleanup milestones.
-- Endangered Species: In response to a question from Sen.Yudichak, Ferretti said the agency has not taken a position on House Bill 1576 (Pyle-R-Armstrong) that would change the endangered species listing process, but noted DCNR is already required to list species by regulation, a primary provision in the bill.
-- Multiple Use Of Forests: Sen. Scott Hutchinson (R-Venango) said he believed State Forests were intended not to be preserved, but to be used in multiple ways to take advantage of the natural resources they contain. Ferretti said public land management is always a balancing act, noting State Parks and State Forests are managed differently. State Forests are being used for low-impact recreation and State Parks for a broader choice of recreational opportunities. She also explained DCNR owns the mineral rights for most State Forests, but almost none under State Park lands.
-- Heritage Parks Program: Sen. Scott Hutchinson (R-Venango) expressed his support for the Heritage Parks Program and recommended DCNR do more to support the program.

Neither nominee had a formal written opening statement for the Committee.

The Governor nominated Abruzzo and Ferretti on September 20. The Senate is scheduled to be in session today and three more days next week then adjourn for the year.

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Here's the official report:


Senate Environmental Resources and Energy Committee
12/4/13, 10:00 a.m., Room 1, North Office Building
By Mike Howells, PLS

The committee met to consider the nominations of Ellen M. Ferretti as Secretary of the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources (DCNR) and E. Christopher Abruzzo as Secretary of the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP).

Committee members in attendance included Chairman Gene Yaw, Minority Chairman John Yudichak, and Senators Jim Ferlo (D-Allegheny), Daylin Leach (D-Montgomery), Ted Erickson (R-Delaware), Andy Dinniman (D-Chester), Scott Hutchinson (R-Venango), Don White (R-Indiana), and Elder Vogel (R-Beaver).

Sen. Lisa Baker (R-Luzerne) introduced Ellen Ferretti. She said the committee could look “long and hard” and not find a better-qualified candidate than her as nominee, and remarked her experience and qualifications present a “direct path” to the position of secretary of DCNR.

Ferretti has had tremendous impact shaping environmental planning and practices in northeast Pennsylvania, Sen. Baker said, offering the committee her recommendation “without reservation.”

Sen. Rob Teplitz (D-Dauphin) offered his support for Christopher Abruzzo for the head of DEP. He relayed his experience with Abruzzo working as a local elected official in Dauphin County. He added Abruzzo’s work as a prosecutor should also be viewed as an asset. He said that while members may not always agree with the decisions of the department, they will be made with good intentions and with transparency on the part of Abruzzo.

Ferretti offered comments on her own behalf. Describing her career history, she said it is an honor to be a part of DCNR and remarked “I have never worked with such professionals in my entire life.”

Chairman Yudichak discussed Moon Lake Park and efforts to preserve land around it but said it has “fallen on hard times” in recent years, with challenges involved in maintaining the open space. He asked how the department can assist in such situations around the commonwealth. Ferretti said the county has established a recreation board to deal with Moon Lake and other areas. She said DCNR can help with grant applications and perhaps work with the county on its vision for the future of the area. Ferretti also noted there was dialogue surrounding revenue through timbering, though she is not sure whether that is still ongoing.

Chairman Yudichak noted legislation moving through the House and proposed in the Senate regarding the classification of threatened and endangered species. He asked how DCNR has been involved in that initiative. Ferretti said the department would be happy to be of assistance but does not have a position on it presently.

Sen. Ferlo noted his “major” disagreement with the administration regarding the development of the Marcellus Shale and related conservation efforts. He expressed concern with Act 256 and its original intent, with money being used exclusively for conservation, recreation, floods and dams and the like. He contended there has been an expedited policy shift of late as to where funds are being appropriated, and in particular a growing profit motive on the part of DCNR to develop its land. Ferretti said DCNR will continue to protect its state parks. Speaking to Loyalsock State Park specifically, she said that is a unique case because of the court order attached to it. She said the department feels it has some say in what goes on but clearly does not own the mineral rights underneath the land. She emphasized the mission remains in place for the other land under DCNR’s purview. Ferretti added the department is happy to be receiving the additional funds from development. She noted there have been no new leases and emphasized DCNR is balancing the uses being requested of state park lands.

Sen. Ferlo reiterated his longstanding view that there should be a multi-year moratorium on activity related to the Marcellus Shale.

Sen. Hutchinson raised the issue of the Heritage Park program, which he called a great success and said he would like to work with Ferretti on moving forward. He discussed the multiple-use philosophy of state parks and said they should be used as much as possible. He asked Ferretti for her view on that issue. Ferretti said it is a balancing act and said state parks in general tend to be more protected. She noted however that the state does not own the subsurface in 80 percent of its parks.

State forests, she went on, are more open to other uses, including timbering. Ferretti said DCNR enjoys a good relationship with snowmobiling groups and is open to new opportunities in that area.

Sen. Leach said he is troubled by the funding of DCNR through oil and gas leases. He said it goes against the intent of the enabling legislation and presents at least the appearance of a conflict of interest. He asked what policy changes, if any, Ferretti would support in that regard. Ferretti said she would hope such decisions are made on a year to year basis, and said she does not see a conflict.

Sen. Leach noted 700,000 acres of state land are open for leasing and noted former Gov. Ed Rendell’s executive order establishing a moratorium on more land in 2010. He asked if Ferretti agrees with it. Ferretti noted it is still in place but declined to offer further comment.

Sen. Leach asked for Ferretti’s vision for DCNR, given adequate resources. Ferretti said there are infrastructure needs throughout the state’s parks and forests, and added she would enjoy more grant money to support groups and communities.

Sen. Dinniman echoed the sentiments of Senators Leach and Ferlo regarding the leasing of state lands. He asked that she communicate the feelings of the senators if a discussion occurs between DCNR and the current governor on revoking Gov. Rendell’s moratorium. Sen. Dinniman also thanked DCNR for its work in southeastern Pennsylvania and suggested the Joint Legislative Conservation Committee meet with DCNR to discuss various issues.

Abruzzo noted he assumed interim leadership of DEP in April of 2013 and took immediate steps to improve transparency, efficiency, and foster public participation in the workings of the department. He said he looks forward to the opportunity to continue those efforts.

Abruzzo discussed the permit decision guarantee program, and said it was implemented a year ago and has reduced the backlog of permit applications by 95 percent, while not sacrificing the quality of the reviews.
“My experience is different from my predecessors,” he noted, “But that difference is good.”

Chairman Yaw noted Abruzzo has a reputation as a “problem solver” and remarked that is a positive quality for the head of DEP.

Chairman Yudichak said Abruzzo’s experience as a local supervisor is very important. He said there has been no greater complaint from local officials than regional offices operating differently from the state office in dealing with six or seven different interpretations of a regulation. Abruzzo agreed it is a challenge on any level for an agency. He said it is very hard sometimes to achieve environmental protection within the confines of one municipality versus another using the same approach. The problem, he remarked, is not willful noncompliance, but rather the unintended consequences that result from uneven application of regulations from region to region. He said regional offices do need a certain degree of flexibility in that regard, and cited a breakdown in communication that is often to blame for issues.

Regarding the Marcellus Shale, Chairman Yudichak requested an update on radioactive drill cuttings, and asked what other studies are being undertaken by the department. Abruzzo said short term studies have been done on air quality around drill sites and compressor stations. He said the drill cuttings study is due to be finished in August of next year. Right now, he said, the department is confident the radiation levels are acceptable and no greater than typical background levels. Abruzzo advised any cuttings or other waste that are deemed “too hot” for landfills in the commonwealth are moved out of state. On the Auditor General’s audit of the industry’s water treatment program, Abruzzo said he could not offer any comments but said the department has cooperated fully with the audit. He said he would be happy to implement recommendations to improve.

Sen. Ferlo asked for information on air monitoring going on at the drill sites and stations. Abruzzo said he would be happy to forward it along. Sen. Ferlo said there is growing dissent from people having to deal with contamination of waterways like the Allegheny River. He asked how many DEP staff have left the state payroll and now work for the industry. Abruzzo confirmed a number of employees have left over a number of years but said that is the challenge that any agency has. Sen. Ferlo said he hopes the legislature revisits the amendments offered to Act 13.

Sen. Hutchinson discussed the small scale “mom and pop” oil and gas producers and expressed how important it is that they be treated differently than larger operations. He added DEP ought to focus beyond simply fines and instead take a broader approach to protecting the environment.

Sen. Leach asked Abruzzo’s view of climate change and the role of humans in contributing to it. Abruzzo said he won’t argue climate change is evident and there is science to support it and that human activity “would seem to be one of those factors” contributing to it. He added natural climate fluctuations over time are also a factor. Asked if he thinks climate change is a “bad thing,” Abruzzo commented, “I guess there are some adverse effects that climate change may impact… I have not read any scientific studies that lead me to conclude that there are adverse impacts to human beings or animals or plant life at this small level of climate change.” Sen. Leach contended that is an “odd” statement and said there seem to be news stories on negative impacts “every day.” Abruzzo said he would not argue “air pollution can cause death” and lead to things like lung cancer. Abruzzo went on, adding he has not drawn any conclusions “across the board” regarding climate change but said there are things individuals can do. Sen. Leach asked what policies should be instituted to combat climate change. Abruzzo said climate change is a global issue and remarked Pennsylvania is already doing its fair share, if not more, compared to other states and countries around the world. He added he does not see any additional policies he would pursue to address climate change as secretary of DEP.

Sen. Leach asked if Abruzzo supports legislation raising Alternative Energy Portfolio Standards (AEPS), noting other states have passed Pennsylvania by in the years since it was first enacted. Abruzzo said he would not oppose it but would have to see the specific legislation to offer a more in-depth assessment. He noted there are benefits but also real-world consequences to such measures.

Sen. Leach commented there is no secret of differences between him and the Corbett administration, but remarked he has supported every nomination from the governor. He said as a matter of conscience however he cannot support the nomination of Abruzzo, contending he has not had a huge role, throughout his career, in protecting the environment.
“There are many positions you would be qualified for,” Sen. Leach told Abruzzo. “I do not think this is one of them.” He added he does not believe the nomination is a serious one from Gov. Corbett, and reflects his view of environmental protection in general.

Sen. Vogel said he was glad to see Abruzzo speaking before farmers in recent weeks and showing increased involvement with the agriculture community. He said he thinks the progress made by the agricultural community is being grossly undermeasured with regard to sediment management. Abruzzo agreed it is an important issue and the said the first step is the federal Environmental Protection Agency issuing verification procedures for best management procedures so DEP can generate a survey to better measure progress in Pennsylvania.

Sen. Dinniman expressed disappointment in replies he received from Abruzzo on various questions he posed via letter. He said that in the southeast the issue regarding the Marcellus Shale is pipelines, and said the regional office has performed poorly in offering notifications on their development. Specifically he said the problem is the public is not given all the information when a company comes in and often is it unknown there is a hearing “until the last moment.” He requested immediate notification when a company has indicated it wishes to go forward with a pipeline. He spoke specifically to issues with Transco and said the same money that goes to helping developers get permits more quickly ought to be used to also help constituencies receive more rapid notification. Abruzzo said he doesn’t know what the problem was with access to information in that specific project but said DEP puts online as much information as possible with regard to permit applications and across the different areas that DEP regulates. He said with respect to certain information constituents would want to see, like design specifications and maps, “we don’t have the bandwidth to actually download it to our system and then deliver electronically to anybody. And certainly it would require, if we did, it would require the person viewing it to have special video monitors to be able to see it.” Sen. Dinniman said DEP could also issue a directive for companies to automatically expedite relevant data.

Continuing, Sen. Dinniman remarked on water retention issues as a result of increasing pipeline construction. He noted Downingtown, for example, is experiencing more flooding in consequence of pipeline development. Abruzzo said the issues are often addressed in the permitting process, and offered to speak with the senator directly to see what could be done differently in particular instances. Sen. Dinniman indicated he would appreciate if Abruzzo would agree to take a leadership role to deal with the issue. Abruzzo agreed. Chairman Yaw noted a majority of such pipelines are under federal or Public Utility Commission (PUC) purview. He added he would be willing to discuss the issue with Sen. Dinniman.

The committee unanimously reported the nomination of Ferretti to the full Senate

The committee unanimously reported the nomination of Abruzzo to the full Senate, with Sen. Leach voting in the negative.