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Post by Dutch on Dec 26, 2022 8:33:44 GMT -5
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Post by dougl on Dec 26, 2022 9:39:46 GMT -5
I have no clue and Pa is a big state.I do find it ironic that very recently people were complaining about too many bears and chastising the PGC for protecting them.Now people question why there's less bear.I don't know.Some years I see more bear and sign than others and it almost always coincides with available food sources at that time.Like the deer,I don't believe we have the hunters in this part of the state to really impact either one.Other areas may differ.
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Post by CoureurDeBois on Dec 26, 2022 9:49:00 GMT -5
Didn’t surprise me any. The bear numbers just aren’t there anymore, including deer My camp is located in Sproul SF, central Clinton County, has always been hard hunting since I bought it in the early 90’s.
This year was terrible, in 2 1/2 days of hard hunting in rifle bear season, with a crew of 15 hunters we saw a total of 4 deer and no bears. At a friends camp,about 3 miles west of mine, with a full crew they saw no deer & no bears. They hung it up at noon on Sunday. Talked to another hunter, 2nd week of deer who has a bear crew, he told me they didn’t see any bear in rifle, but did kill 3 in early muzzleloader season.
Feel there needs to be some changes made, and soon. Early muzzleloader season for bear needs to be eliminated, and archery bears season needs to be shortened. My 2 cents.
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Post by dougl on Dec 26, 2022 11:02:07 GMT -5
Did you have any feed around camp?We had a very scattered mast crop.Deer and bear were very thin in many places but the few areas that had mast were loaded with deer and had plenty of bear.Last year those same areas had no mast and very few deer and bear.It's amazing what just a little bit of elevation in just a few miles can make with the acorns.I did notice that pressure during bear season was the lowest I've ever seen.We don't have a shortage of bear or deer but where you find them changes constantly.We always had bear around here but the local twps were never producing high harvest numbers.
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Post by dougl on Dec 26, 2022 11:42:37 GMT -5
I lost the link and can't find it now.Anyway,I just looked up the harvests and Clinton county was pounding the crap out of them for a long time,a lot longer than 10 years.It seems that they had a very steady,high harvest for a long time and it just decreased the last two years.Why?I have no idea but it appears that the high harvests of over a decade ago should have had more of an impact back then.Are too many getting shot or has something else changed?Again,I have no clue.Bear don't reproduce at the rate deer do so areas with extended seasons,localized food sources and high pressure could certainly be seeing a reduction based on harvests.That isn't the case in my small corner of the world.
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Post by Dutch on Dec 26, 2022 13:39:00 GMT -5
I'm very ok with fewer bears, very. We have way less sign of them now. Has been declining for about 5 years. Good.
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Post by Dutch on Dec 26, 2022 13:40:36 GMT -5
Even Ternent, when I saw his last bear presentation to the PGC, said they needed to keep an eye on that early season due to so many does being killed. Looks like they have had the needed results. Good
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Post by buzz on Dec 26, 2022 13:59:36 GMT -5
We seem to have plenty of bear here. I would say judging from farmers and hunters I have talked with, that our bear population increased in the past 10 years or so, and has held steady for past 2 or 3 seasons. ( my SWAG )
I do agree with Doug on food source's. Same goes for deer and Turkey.
No doubt there was some major changes on top producing county's this season, Bradford took a pretty good jump, but appears to have more to do with other county's not harvesting as many as prior years ?
As with others, I would like to know PGC "goal" for bear population. Will they start using WMU's to manage bear numbers ?
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Post by dougl on Dec 26, 2022 14:31:59 GMT -5
I think it's very hard to judge a bear population by how many you see.Food sources just change so often that what you see is nothing but a snapshot in time.I usually see bear pretty regularly throughout the spring summer and fall.The first bear I saw all year was towards the end of Oct.Two days later I saw one in the morning and a different one that afternoon.Over the next few weeks,I saw more in the same general area.I don't use trail cams but a couple of my buddies were getting regular pictures during bear season and through rifle season.Last week,I saw a decent sized bear two days in a row in the same spot.I have no idea how many bear were in that relatively small area but next year there may be none.
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Post by CoureurDeBois on Dec 26, 2022 16:32:16 GMT -5
Most of Clinton County, 2G, doesn't have an extended season. Most of Centre County, 4D, does.
Mast was poor last 2 years in Noyes Twp, where my camp is, and is usually the top or close to the top bear harvest township in Clinton. So I'm sure this is a contributing factor to harvest numbers. I'm also sure the early muzzle loader season is a big contributor to the decline, along with the long archery bear season. You can't remove the pregnant females at the rate we have, and expect it not to result in a decline of bear numbers. Something needs to change, maybe only having the early muzzleloader season in certain WMU is the way to go.
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Post by buzz on Dec 26, 2022 17:10:09 GMT -5
I think it's very hard to judge a bear population by how many you see.Food sources just change so often that what you see is nothing but a snapshot in time.I usually see bear pretty regularly throughout the spring summer and fall.The first bear I saw all year was towards the end of Oct.Two days later I saw one in the morning and a different one that afternoon.Over the next few weeks,I saw more in the same general area.I don't use trail cams but a couple of my buddies were getting regular pictures during bear season and through rifle season.Last week,I saw a decent sized bear two days in a row in the same spot.I have no idea how many bear were in that relatively small area but next year there may be none. Thats why I put the ( SWAG) in there. I have a few farmer friends who crop farm several thousand acres between them all. The amount of bear damage they see is a decent indicator, but .....still SWAG as it obviously only accounts for a good food source, and not big woods and mast crop. I would not be a fan of using WMU's for bear season, as we hunt 2 different one's and so do many, but it may be a needed tool someday ? I am old enough to remember the PGC saying the perfect bear population in Pa would be 10,000.........  |
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Post by CoureurDeBois on Dec 26, 2022 17:25:30 GMT -5
I can remember Alt saying Pennsylvania could easily support a bear population of 20,000 bears, but the public would never stand for it.
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 26, 2022 17:58:59 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see if the BOC addresses the hot mess at the January meeting.
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Post by Dutch on Dec 26, 2022 19:12:14 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see if the BOC addresses the hot mess at the January meeting. Make the early season two weeks and finish them off. 🤣 |
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Post by dougl on Dec 27, 2022 9:30:12 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see if the BOC addresses the hot mess at the January meeting. What's the hot mess?Do we have too few bear for your tastes now?Too many?Not enough opportunities?Too few opportunities? |
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 27, 2022 9:50:46 GMT -5
What's the hot mess?Do we have too few bear for your tastes now?Too many?Not enough opportunities?Too few opportunities? I think we talked about this already............... |
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Post by dennyf on Dec 27, 2022 10:17:03 GMT -5
Bears commonly showing up inside cities and long established towns, is generally a sign they may be too numerous? Bowbum and I were in the Sproul about 20 years ago, bear cub molestation tour. It was noted that one could see hundreds of yards down thru the snow covered woods, on our drive back in there. Zero ground cover offering any browse or cover. The young lady riding with us, asked her daddy why would there be deer there, with so little for them to eat?  |
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Post by dougl on Dec 27, 2022 10:47:53 GMT -5
What's the hot mess?Do we have too few bear for your tastes now?Too many?Not enough opportunities?Too few opportunities? I think we talked about this already............... We did but you never explained what this hot mess is? |
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 27, 2022 11:22:18 GMT -5
I think we talked about this already............... We did but you never explained what this hot mess is? Actually I did and Dutch also said I explained it several times to you. |
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Post by timberdoodle on Dec 27, 2022 11:54:38 GMT -5
well that explains that
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Post by dougl on Dec 27, 2022 12:04:01 GMT -5
No,Gene just posted the different number of opportunities and called it a hot mess but didn't say why or offer any solutions.People ask for micromanagement where the problems exist but when the PGC makes changes,it's now a hot mess.Reading the digest and looking to see where you hunt really isn't a big issue.,Managing any species that impacts people is a tough thing to do.sTAKEHOLDERS WANT LESS BEAR AND BEAR HUNTERS WANT MORE TARGETS.Finding that balance is sure to make someone unhappy.
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 27, 2022 12:15:05 GMT -5
No,Gene just posted the different number of opportunities and called it a hot mess but didn't say why or offer any solutions.People ask for micromanagement where the problems exist but when the PGC makes changes,it's now a hot mess.Reading the digest and looking to see where you hunt really isn't a big issue.,Managing any species that impacts people is a tough thing to do.sTAKEHOLDERS WANT LESS BEAR AND BEAR HUNTERS WANT MORE TARGETS.Finding that balance is sure to make someone unhappy. It seems others are questioning the hot mess bear seasons as well for the reasons we already discussed. |
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Post by dougl on Dec 27, 2022 12:44:40 GMT -5
No,some are questioning the fact that they feel that there's less bears.Hunters want more targets and often times,at the expense of others.I don't see a hot mess or any mess for that matter.The perception was that we had too many bears and both you and Dutch jumped on the band wagon.They extended the season in problem areas and gave bowhunters a season.They went slow about it and hunters complained that they went too slow.They then added in lines and a short youth/senior hunt along with a sunday.It really isn't that hard to figure out and according to the PGC,the population was lowered by about 4000 bears,which was the goal.Rather than it being a hot mess,it appears to be a plan that worked as it was designed.It's easy to throw criticism out without offering solutions.
I live around bears and other people who live around them.I see people's behavior as the problem in most cases rather than the bears being a problem.It's really the people who need managed rather than the bears in most cases.They're the hot mess.The one exception would be farmers.What a few bears will do to a cornfield is hard to explain and farmers shouldn't have to put up with that.The early seaons have helped with that because in this area at least,the vast majority of those bears are patterned and killed near the corn.Great job addressing the problem PGC,while providing additional opportunities.
When I think of the PGC as they relate to bears,I say job well done.What a phenominal success story on every level.
I talk to dozens of people every day and I know the bigger bear crews in this area.Most of them had a poor year during bear season because there was so little mast.They hunted the same areas as they do every year but if there's no food,there won't be any bears.It's no different with deer or any other bird or animal.Clearfield county killed I think 112 bears this year,50 of which were in the early season.Those bears were mostly killed near corn where they're a problem.Sows with cubs den early when there's a shortage of food.You can't shoot them is they're under ground.
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Post by ridgecommander on Dec 27, 2022 13:22:27 GMT -5
No,some are questioning the fact that they feel that there's less bears.Hunters want more targets and often times,at the expense of others.I don't see a hot mess or any mess for that matter.The perception was that we had too many bears and both you and Dutch jumped on the band wagon.They extended the season in problem areas and gave bowhunters a season.They went slow about it and hunters complained that they went too slow.They then added in lines and a short youth/senior hunt along with a sunday.It really isn't that hard to figure out and according to the PGC,the population was lowered by about 4000 bears,which was the goal.Rather than it being a hot mess,it appears to be a plan that worked as it was designed.It's easy to throw criticism out without offering solutions. I live around bears and other people who live around them.I see people's behavior as the problem in most cases rather than the bears being a problem.It's really the people who need managed rather than the bears in most cases.They're the hot mess.The one exception would be farmers.What a few bears will do to a cornfield is hard to explain and farmers shouldn't have to put up with that.The early seaons have helped with that because in this area at least,the vast majority of those bears are patterned and killed near the corn.Great job addressing the problem PGC,while providing additional opportunities. When I think of the PGC as they relate to bears,I say job well done.What a phenominal success story on every level. I talk to dozens of people every day and I know the bigger bear crews in this area.Most of them had a poor year during bear season because there was so little mast.They hunted the same areas as they do every year but if there's no food,there won't be any bears.It's no different with deer or any other bird or animal.Clearfield county killed I think 112 bears this year,50 of which were in the early season.Those bears were mostly killed near corn where they're a problem.Sows with cubs den early when there's a shortage of food.You can't shoot them is they're under ground. What a hot mess. |
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Post by dougl on Dec 27, 2022 14:06:47 GMT -5
Yeah,you can probably get a prescription of estrogen for that problem.
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