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Post by Dutch on Mar 7, 2013 13:18:28 GMT -5
This was sent to me this morning. GUess it's an article in a paper out in the SW part of PA
Where are all the deer? Since I was first elected to the Pennsylvania House of Representatives in 2006, I have heard a constant narrative from the hunters in southwest Pennsylvania about the lack of deer in the woods. Mind you, these are not occasional hunters that venture only so deep into the woods. These are seasoned, experienced hunters who have hunted the same areas for years and can recognize when deer populations steadily decrease. There are not as many deer in the woods, they say, and I believe they are correct.
There are several factors contributing to the lack of whitetail, but one of the main causes is the Pennsylvania's Game Commission’s Deer Management Assistance Program (DMAP).
For hunting in Pennsylvania, DMAP has been a disaster. Hunter participation has decreased dramatically statewide. The numbers are staggering. As of 2011 there are approximately 132,000 fewer adults hunting in our Commonwealth and 22,000 fewer juniors compared with 2001. This is even more troubling when you consider that, nationally, hunter participation has increased during that same period.
That decline in hunter participation represents a potential loss of $285 million in direct economic activity. And that number doesn’t include the untold thousands of hunters who no longer travel from out of state to hunt in Pennsylvania.
But this issue is not merely about dollars and cents. Few states equal Pennsylvania in hunting heritage. This legacy has been passed from generation to generation since our founding. Our grandfathers, fathers, uncles and sons are part of that heritage -- as are our grandmothers, mothers, aunts and daughters. The DMAP program is destroying that legacy.
Enough is enough. I have introduced legislation -- House Bill 870 -- that will exclude all public lands from the DMAP. The Game Commission has had their run with DMAP -- and it has succeeded only in weakening hunting in our state. Damage has been done, but it is not irreparable. I hope you’ll join with me in helping our sportsmen and sportswomen begin to reclaim our great hunting heritage.
State Rep. Deberah Kula represents the 52nd legislative district, which includes parts of Fayette and Westmoreland counties.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2013 13:43:25 GMT -5
"Where are all the deer?"
Dutch, Fayette and Westmoreland counties are mostly in WMU 2C.
Last year harvest data for WMU 2C: 8,200 antler (3th highest) and 12,800 antlerless (5th highest). I wonder how they can harvest all these deer if they're not there? LOL ;D
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Post by Dutch on Mar 7, 2013 13:49:21 GMT -5
Plus, how much DMAP is there out there? Not much. Mt Davis area, I believe.
The SW region has so little public land, in general. I think it's the lowest percentage of about any region in the state.
Deborah is listening to only a few, me thinks.
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Post by davetm on Mar 7, 2013 13:51:10 GMT -5
Well, I live in 2B and hunt 2B and 2C, and 2D. That's because I'm just a spit and a kick away from where all three meet.
I will say that this past year (the fall of 2012) I've seen less deer. But, I believe...as do many who have hunted this area, it's a direct relationship caused by the EHD bug. I know that in a small area from where I live, to where my brother in law lives....roughly a 4 mile as the crow flies route, there were about 120 deer (buck and doe.....no sex prejudice here) killed by this Texas bug.
That is a pile of deer for this small area!!! The tiny plot of woods behind where I live is usually romaning with anywhere from 7 to a dozen deer. This year, on the best day, it was 5. And that wasn't often. There's a small pond exactly 212 yards from my deck where 5 deer were found dead attempting to drink the EHD heat out of their poor bodies.
However, even with the very large kill from EHD, a disabled hunter like me could find a buck, and plenty of doe to kill. Maybe not "at the old tree stand" (I don't use tree stands) like before.....but if you scout a bit.....you will figure out where the deer are at.
MHO
Dave
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Post by ridgecommander on Mar 7, 2013 14:37:49 GMT -5
A perfect exampe of a politician listening with emotion and not looking at the facts.
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Post by melody on Mar 7, 2013 14:48:07 GMT -5
A perfect example of a politician not caring about the facts....but instead playing to what they think the constituency wants to hear. The only thing that will work to change their opinions is a well informed, polite vocal constituency telling them they are wrong.
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Post by davetm on Mar 7, 2013 14:55:11 GMT -5
I could just send them an email that says "Look you dumb arse's...I'm a cripple SOB and even I killed a nice buck and two doe, and your lazy buddies can't find a deer? Maybe they need better eye care?"
But then.....the direct approach isn't always the best.......
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Post by Dutch on Mar 7, 2013 15:08:39 GMT -5
She seems to be blaming the lower hunter numbers on "no deer". The fact is, since 1985, hunter numbers have been declining. I can tell you this, we had a TON of deer back then, so, why did numbers begin to decline in 1985? ?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2013 15:31:46 GMT -5
"Where are all the deer?"Dutch, Fayette and Westmoreland counties are mostly in WMU 2C. Last year harvest data for WMU 2C: 8,200 antler (3th highest) and 12,800 antlerless (5th highest). I wonder how they can harvest all these deer if they're not there? LOL ;D We are just special hunters, FT. Hey, where did I hear that before? ??
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2013 15:36:35 GMT -5
Plus, how much DMAP is there out there? Not much. Mt Davis area, I believe. The SW region has so little public land, in general. I think it's the lowest percentage of about any region in the state. Deborah is listening to only a few, me thinks. Mount Davis, Laurel Ridge State Park, Ohiopyle State Park just to name three. The Forbes State Forest has a few DMAP areas. I have personally hunted Mount Davis and Ohiopyle and there are deer there in huntable populations. Ms Kula has not been around all that long. Those same hunters were grousing about not enough deer in the 1990s. This is not to say that there are not fewer deer now than then. There are fewer deer, but we manage to take a few now and then, and the ones we take are rolling fat. I have not seen a winter kill since we bought the cabin in 2007.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2013 15:43:25 GMT -5
Better send the Ms an email Mutt.
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Post by dougell on Mar 7, 2013 16:08:56 GMT -5
Plus, how much DMAP is there out there? Not much. Mt Davis area, I believe. The SW region has so little public land, in general. I think it's the lowest percentage of about any region in the state. Deborah is listening to only a few, me thinks. With few exceptions,dmap harvest rates are below 2 dpsm,hardly a disaster.
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Post by Dutch on Mar 7, 2013 16:11:10 GMT -5
Mutt, 3 years ago, I skiied the rail trail along the Yough in Ohiopyle. I can honestly say, I have not seen that many deer tracks in years. Blew my mind.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2013 16:22:41 GMT -5
Anyone have an email for the honorable representative? I will be happy to invite her to visit Camp Rip-N-Tear.
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Post by Dutch on Mar 7, 2013 17:35:44 GMT -5
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Post by Dutch on Mar 7, 2013 17:42:08 GMT -5
Rep Kula, do you realize that hunter numbers PEAKED in 1985 at about 1.3 MILLION, and have been trending downward ever since? From the early 80's, and into the mid 2000's, we had TONS of deer, yet hunter numbers declined. They have declined nationwide over the same period. So, in spite of having tons of deer, hunter numbers declined. It is a demographic issue. The baby boomer generation is aging and is not being replaced by younger kids. Kids today have many more choices, in recreation, other than hunting. So, please, do not blame the decrease in hunter numbers on decreasing deer numbers. You really should educate yourself about the issue, from BOTH sides, before proposing legislation that is not needed.
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Post by Dutch on Mar 7, 2013 17:44:44 GMT -5
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Post by melody on Mar 7, 2013 18:09:40 GMT -5
dkula@pahouse.net Coments should also be sent to the publication where the letter was posted.
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Post by galthatfishes on Mar 7, 2013 18:31:23 GMT -5
"Where are all the deer?"Dutch, Fayette and Westmoreland counties are mostly in WMU 2C. Last year harvest data for WMU 2C: 8,200 antler (3th highest) and 12,800 antlerless (5th highest). I wonder how they can harvest all these deer if they're not there? LOL ;D Trust me; it rivals 2A with the number of deer.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2013 7:12:11 GMT -5
I sent the following email out this morning. I will keep you all posted as to the responses I get. You all are welcome to come along. I would just need to know how big a pot of venison noodle soup to cook. George Honorable representative Kula: It has come to my attention that you are sponsoring a bill (HB 870) to exclude all public lands from DMAP. I would beg to disagree with the basic premise of your thinking that there is an insufficient population of deer for hunting. This is an opinion that has been a constant theme among many hunters for the past forty or so years. I have hunted deer in the state of Pennsylvania since I turned 12 years old in 1954, and I can’t remember a time when hunters were satisfied with the number of deer they saw during hunting season. This includes the 1980s and 1990s when the population of deer did horrendous damage to our forests, eating nearly everything within four feet of the ground. But I digress. I would like to invite you to visit my camp, Camp Rip-N-Tear, in wildlife management unit 2C. I would be happy to take you for a walk on State Game Lands #111, all public land, and show you what a good population of deer there is on that public land. The walk is fairly easy, but you should bring appropriate footwear as it can be a bit on the rocky side. SGL #111 is not unique among public lands. We can also discuss what the impact of too many deer for way too long was, and how the habitat has improved since we reduced that population. While it is located in Somerset County and is not in Fayette or Westmoreland County, it is fairly close to Ohiopyle State Park, which was a designated DMAP area last year. I have hunted in both Ohiopyle and on Mount Davis DMAP areas, and if you wish, we can tour either during your visit. Neither has a population of deer to low to be huntable. I will make arrangements to be at my hunting camp, which by the way is not so primitive as to be uncomfortable (see photo at link) when it is convenient to you, and will even cook a venison noodle soup for lunch; that venison harvested from a deer killed near our camp last fall. Please try to schedule a large portion of a day for your visit. I guarantee you to be treated with respect and dignity. If you decide to take me up on my offer I will be happy to send directions as to how to find our camp. If you wish you may bring additional representatives with you. Just let me know how many I have to feed (LOL). Here is a link to a photo of our camp. img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/patrkyhntr17252/beforeft.jpgI have CCed Representative Todd Rock who's district is close to mine, and who is listed as vice chair of the house game and fisheries committee. He is invited to come along with me as well. Yours most sincerely,
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2013 7:12:46 GMT -5
What newspaper did the original article run in?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2013 7:32:00 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2013 7:44:26 GMT -5
Thanks, FT. I posted this comment:
I would beg to disagree with the basic premise of the bill Representative Kula is offering, that being that there are not enough deer to hunt. I am 71 years old and started hunting in 1954. I can't remember a single time when hunters did not gripe about there not being enough deer for them. This led to decades of mismanagement that did horrendous damage to our forest ecosystems where too many deer for too long a time ate everything within four feet of the ground. During the past twelve years we have managed to reduce the population and the forest ecosystems in most parts of the state are recovering quite nicely. At our camp in Somerset County the understory is now healthy. Increasing the number of deer too much would negate the progress we have made.
As to success in hunting, our camp is on the border of state game lands. We bought this camp in 2007. It took us a couple of years to learn how to hunt the area since we are slow learners, but during the past three years, three of us who hunt there have taken two bucks each year. Two out of three is not too bad. We also take a doe or two each year, and our deer population is incresing.
I have invided Representative Kula to visit our camp and if she does I will show her what I am talking about.
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Post by dennyf on Mar 8, 2013 8:33:24 GMT -5
Doubt a letter from someone that cannot vote for her, will accomplish much?
They don't want to hear anything that disagrees with some "great mission" they're on, to ensure their re-election by pandering to those that grumble.
There are now several reps on that committee who appear to be dedicated to hammering the PGC and they all use the same excuse: "My" hunters are complaining about not enough deer.
Do the math here. If they have 5,000 license-buying hunters in their districts and say maybe 50-100 have contacted them to whine about "no deer", does that give them any cause to make statements about hunter disatisfaction?
Or should it turn a light on in their little heads, to make an attempt to figure out why so few are whining, out of so many that hunt?
If they were honest and truly interested in the facts, they'd look at the realities of deer management in PA, realize we're consistantly killing in excess of 300,000 deer per year since HR started and shut the hell up about things they're not qualified to yap about.
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Post by TusseyMtman on Mar 8, 2013 8:41:20 GMT -5
I would think DCNR would have a say in the end, when(if) the bill made it to Corbett? Corbett's DCNR is a big user of DMAP. Not that he knows anything about DMAP, but why would Corbett support eliminating an important tool for one of the agencies he oversees?
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