Hunter recruitment - shortcomings

[Deleted]

This morning I was reading my Game News and then another article in our local paper about efforts to recruit new hunters.
I kind of commented to no one in particular that they are missing the boat by not addressing the Sunday Hunting issue.
My wife reminded me that she heard it before and I converted her from an "anti" Sunday hunter to be a supporter.
She said --- "tell them what you think."
So I did:
My email to Samantha Pedder follows:

I am encouraged by the various programs to recruit new hunters who, hopefully, will be life-long hunters and serve as hunting's ambassadors who also realize valuable lessons in life through the efforts and rewards of hunting.

As much as I am encouraged, there is a greater amount of discouragement and pessimism. There remains one single deficit ingredient in the hunting arena that, unquestionably, leads to the decline of participation and a reduced recruitment.

Simply stated, it is the lack of opportunity to hunt big game on Sundays.

The "pat" answer from PGC officials is that this is a "legislative" issue, and; "out of our hands." I have discussed this several times with persons in management and policy and each time I've come away shaking my head at the obvious lack of will to address and correct this deficit and to simply --- push the blame off on legislators.

Trust me, I do understand the political process and the various influences against opening big game hunting on Sundays
A study, if conducted, like wildlife behavioral studies are often done, would unquestionably demonstrate a huge percentage of loss of opportunity for average families by disallowing that one day that is commonly shared as the major day of opportunity for family participation.

Oh yes, the "legislator" thing? Well, as long as leadership and responsible persons at PGC make no move towards correcting this hideous deficit, the legislators will obediently follow the loudest voices.

By far, most other states have manged to structure wildlife management to be inclusive. We here in Pennsylvania seem unable to measure up to the needs of current day family life and obligations.
I live on 55 acres of woodland in Northeast PA. If I were to take my bow in hand and walk into my own woods on any Sunday in October or early November ---- I would be breaking the law.

Gary Alt created a lot of controversy with his in-your-face style and expose` of "what was wrong." Whether or not we agree with him, he had guts, he knew what he was talking about, and he effected change.

Sincerely,
Bob Fuhrman

[ridgecommander]

Good stuff, Bob.

What is truly shameful is although our BOC did pass a resolution supporting legislation of a regulatory transfer of Sunday hunting, it barely passed.

How pathetic is it that we have sitting commissioners that feel that game agencies should not be in the business of regulating hunting 365 days of the year. IMO, that should be enough to unseat them. A position that is a complete 180 degress from the mission of the PGC.

[Dutch]

Bob, the SH issue is still VERY much alive. No worries. Just taking time.

[wentzler]

Dog tracking..taking time, SH taking time, state budget...wasting time and $. MY took took too much time, archery bear, too much time, November archery too much time, tag transfer to youth and MY, too much time..yadda, yadda, etc. etc. ad nauseum?

But what would those of us who really care be doing otherwise.

OH!! I remember....hunting. ...with kids

The Bowbum? He's had his head on right since the first day I met him, probably...long before that

[Deleted]

"Bowbum? He's had his head on right since the first day I met him..........."

I thank you Ed but it seems like only recent developments. My sordid past does not seem that long ago. ;D

[galthatfishes]

Sundays comprise 50% of the available time MOST people have to hunt. It would be HUGE. In fact, the Responsive management study from several years back pointed to that. IIRC, TIME was the biggest factor people were not hunting, and MANY said Sundays would help with that. I'd have to dig out the % again.

[dennyf]

The only things that move slower than changes to hunting practices in PA, are molasses in January and maple sap on a cold March night.

Dozens of things that had LONG been common hunting practices in many other states, that PA still bans, has just recently passed into law, OR had finally implemented in the past few decades:

Additional Sunday hunting opportunities; Back tag display; (mentored) Youth hunting; Wider use of semi auto firearms; Turkey dogs; Tracking dogs; Multiple deer per season; Numerous longer seasons for particular species and/or huntng implements; All day spring gobbler (still limited); And most likely some I've forgotten?

If PA ever adopts a particular change (usually after an interminable wait to do so), we always start off with a toe tip in the water, just to see if it might somehow possibly "work out". No matter that it may have long been common practice in dozens of other states?

Adoption of a flintlock season immediately comes to mind here.

Initially limited to select SGLs, limited length of season and Lord knows how many studies conducted and years lost, until PA finally had an actual statewide flintlock season of what, a whoppin' two weeks or so after Christmas? Add in most of a rainy week and it's even more limited.

Years gone by to adopt archery seasons, flintlock seasons, spring gobbler (more than a half day), bear seasons (long enough and wide enough in territory), to address having too many bears, are just a few things that finally came to pass.

Snails move faster on a cool evening, than anything we ever get around to here in PA, when it comes to "modernizing" our hunting practices.

And while we're at it, let's not forget how many years it took the BOC to finally address having too many deer in far too many parts of PA, before changes were made to bring deer numbers into a balance with available habitat.

[Deleted]

Ditto!

[Dutch]

This comes from Don Heckman:

I sit here this morning finishing breakfast and I am reading pfsc.proboards as I normally do in the mornings to catchup on PA news. And yes if someone wants to add my comments below to the thread please do so on my behalf.

Shortcomings title catches my eye and after reading I must respond in my way as my iPhone - iBrain still has connectivity issues- talk about shortcomings!!!
Don...



This would be a great topic for the old PA Sportsmen's Coalition organization representatives to gather once again around a table and work on specific resolutions.

After all if like-minded sportsmen and women don't seriously take this to a much higher level of identification, understanding, and resolution then slower then molasses in January will be status quo for another 50 years.

Sidebar Denny, leave me add a couple more to your list... Spring and Fall turkey hunting license for a nominal fee, wild turkey management population model, putting autumn olive on noxious weed list state wide including land in reclamation status from strip mining, forest devastation, and enrolled in CRP, PGC not being able to regulate Sundays into all seasons and bag limits as determined by wildlife management species planning, and supporting additional hunting and shooting opportunities on Sundays.

What's wrong with snails pace for important resource (wildlife, land, fishery, water, hunter, angler, trapper, decision making) management decision making?

I believe it is the Social and Legislative decision making that now takes more and more, longer and longer, time to actually make positive resource management changes a reality in Pennsylvania. Hence what has developed over the past 50-60 years will be allowed to fester deeper and deeper into the process decision making by the wrong people at the wrong time, with a wrong answer.

Through Social and Legislative decision making now taking higher priority over sound scientific wildlife management principles and proven management practices, important decision making regulations and practices are often delayed if not ignored until time comes for more drastic actions to be taken.

And here in Pennsylvania there is a 10 mile line up of natural and renewable resource management decision making changes over the past 100 years that should have been done quicker and with less expense due to interference by Social and Legislative protocols being placed above sound scientific wildlife management principles and proven management practices.

[ridgecommander]

Feb 25, 2013 11:44:29 GMT -5 Dutch said:

This would be a great topic for the old PA Sportsmen's Coalition organization representatives to gather once again around a table and work on specific resolutions.

.

Yep.

[Deleted]

If they really want to attract more youth to our sport they somehow must gettem away from their IPhones & other related electronic addictions. Everywhere i go i see them staring at their screens with hypnotic/trancelike expressions whether it be in restaurants or anywhere!! They are missing so much. I know when my Kidos come down to my Chincoteague, VA place my Mrs tells them...PHONES OFF!!! She absolutely hates dem things !! lol

Kiddin aside...you could givem several Sundays a week to hunt & it wouldn't make a hill of beans difference imo with today's generations make-up....

[Dutch]

We had my brother's grandson along on the flushing survey yesterday. A Sunday? LOL

Anyway, the kid had a wonderful time watching the dogs work the cover, and even asked the pheasant biologist various questions.

Some kids do just come to it naturally, but we also need to make it easier to get those kids out.

Pretty sure he'll be in a blind with a crossbow come archery season. Had him out in rifle season and he tagged along all day and loved it. I did leave him shoot at the end of the day and gave him a bit o scope eye, but he was thrilled.

Before he went deer hunting with us, he talked about it in school and the teacher told him "you can't go hunting". Well, he showed them.

Looking forward to him helping train his grandfather's pup.

[dougell]

Feb 25, 2013 17:54:58 GMT -5 @loggy said:

If they really want to attract more youth to our sport they somehow must gettem away from their IPhones & other related electronic addictions. Everywhere i go i see them staring at their screens with hypnotic/trancelike expressions whether it be in restaurants or anywhere!! They are missing so much. I know when my Kidos come down to my Chincoteague, VA place my Mrs tells them...PHONES OFF!!! She absolutely hates dem things !! lol

Kiddin aside...you could givem several Sundays a week to hunt & it wouldn't make a hill of beans difference imo with today's generations make-up....

I share your pain as my daughter's face is constantly in her cell phone and ipod.When she's with me,it get's turned off.My son doesn't have a phone but he does have an ipod and he does play some crazy video game called skylanders.His ipod doesn't leave the house unless he has it in the car and he'll take spending time outside doing just about anything over playing with that stupid thing.I tolerate it when the weathers bad but I don't put up with it when I'm alone with either one of my kids.This year,several people told me to make sure my son took an ipod or nintendo ds with us when went hunting.That just boggles my mind.If a kid can't stay focused on hunting,he's not ready to be out there,simple as that.

[dougell]

Ya know what,it comes down to parenting and spending quality time with your kids.There's a big beautiful world out there.Take the kids out there and show them how to appeciate it.

[Deleted]

Feb 26, 2013 9:53:30 GMT -5 dougell said:

Ya know what,it comes down to parenting and spending quality time with your kids.There's a big beautiful world out there.Take the kids out there and show them how to appeciate it.

Well said. It's scary how my almost 3 year old takes to my wife's iPhone. What I do like is that she loves to take pictures with it and our "big camera." I love seeing the world through her eyes.

We limit the iPhone the best we can. Moderation is OK, but you are right. I get her outside as much as I can, but she's still a little young for the cold weather and stuff, and it gets dark early. We got her backpack for xmas because she wanted one like mine so we could hike with snacks and stuff. I had her ripping through the woods & wetlands in a foot of snow and realized I do have to go slow... she's only 3. But she did well and was asking about the animal tracks and pretended to camp & start a fire under a big hemlock.

I've found that bird watching is good for them too. Gets them in tune with the forest (me too). You know, my neighbor's boy, I think he's 12-ish, saw a cardinal at our feeder and was like "hey cool, what's that?" He didn't know what a cardinal is?!

[dougell]

Yep,before you even introduce them to hunting,you have to get them to appreciate just being out there.A day in the woods spent with your kid is always a good day,regardless of how many deer you see.There's so much for a kid to learn and absorb out there,I don't understand how they can be bored.My daughter is a bunny hugger and she'll never be a hunter.She's been exposed to the lifestyle long enough that she at least respects it and understands why we do it.Her thing is horses which is pretty cool.We trail ride a lot and take the horses on weekend camping trips a few times a year.That gives me a chance to do something with her that she likes while exposing her to my world at the same time.Every times we go out,which is a few time's a week,she asks loads of questions and I can tell she just likes being out there.She'll never have it in her to kill something but she'll never live in a city either.

[Deleted]

You said it... expose them to what we enjoy and see what happens. All you can do. I don't know if my daughters will be hunters. My 3 year old went fishing for the 1st time last spring. SHe used my ice fishing rod and caught her 1st bluegill and loved it. She saw my trout and knows we eat them. She LOVES to eat the stockers! I show her the fish, then I clean it. She asks where the head went, and I explain it very point-blankly that we don't eat the head. She moves on. She does ask lots of questions and just answer as if she's our age (generally).

This is a little girl that while sitting on the deck with me wanted to know what all of the things were on the back of the house and roofs (plumbing vents, downspouts, HVAC vents, etc). I just explain it all and now she tells everyone how the rain drains off the roof and goes into teh gutters and downspouts and out into the woods...! Give them credit... they can be smart people-mcnuggets!

[dougell]

It's all about taking the time to spend time with them.Life is pretty simple when you think about it.The simpler you make it,the better it is.

We live an outdoor lifestyle at our house.My son plays sports but we do most of that outside with the exception of wresting.I work a lot and we have a lot of work do at home.I set my property up so we can do what we want,pretty much any time.I have a shooting bench on my porch and an archery range in front of my barn so we can shine the spotights on the targets and shoot day or night.I built a big riding arena so we can work and train horses.My kids have loads of stuff to keep them busy outside and that's where I want them to be.I don't tolerate laziness.Sitting on the couch playing video games on a nice day doesn't cut the mustard.

[Deleted]

Whoa, hold on for just a minute here. I thought the legalization of crossbows in the regular archery seasons was to be the great Panacea for solving the hunter recruitment problem...especially since, according to many, including Bob Godshall, it was for the children. Does that mean even though the number of archery tags have gone up and the number of crossbows used has gone up, the number of hunters has remained static at best and/or dropped at worst case?





Relax people, I'm just having some fun with you.

[dougell]

I'm not a crossbow advocate,nor do I rabidly oppose them like I once did.At this point,I could just really care less.However,I do believe that crossbows have increased the number of youth hunters in archery season.I actually considered buying one for my son but quickly snapped out of it.He has a regular bow,shoots it well but won't be able to draw sufficient weight for a few more years.In the meantime,we can go to 3D shoots and he can hunt with guns.