Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 10:41:39 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by dougell on Aug 31, 2018 11:59:46 GMT -5
Flawed study and not even close to my own personal experience dealing with several hundred hunters over a 10 year period with a controlled hunt.I got news for anyone who reads this,people lie.The wounding rate is closer to 50% although most of them recover from the injuries.Furthermore,the BH does not have a bearing on recovery rates.
|
|
|
Post by davet on Aug 31, 2018 12:07:27 GMT -5
Study funded by........the makers of mechanical broadheads of 'mercia. A non-profit fund 'em as we see it kind-a place!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 12:15:25 GMT -5
Flawed study and not even close to my own personal experience dealing with several hundred hunters over a 10 year period with a controlled hunt.I got news for anyone who reads this,people lie.The wounding rate is closer to 50% although most of them recover from the injuries.Furthermore,the BH does not have a bearing on recovery rates. It's flawed because you don't agree with it??
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 12:18:23 GMT -5
Study funded by........the makers of mechanical broadheads of 'mercia. A non-profit fund 'em as we see it kind-a place! Doesn't appear to be funded by anyone. Retired engineer just compiled the data.
|
|
|
Post by dougell on Aug 31, 2018 12:24:53 GMT -5
Flawed study and not even close to my own personal experience dealing with several hundred hunters over a 10 year period with a controlled hunt.I got news for anyone who reads this,people lie.The wounding rate is closer to 50% although most of them recover from the injuries.Furthermore,the BH does not have a bearing on recovery rates. It's flawed because you don't agree with it?? No,it's flawed because he has no way to tell if people are lying or not and trust me,they lie.
|
|
|
Post by dougell on Aug 31, 2018 12:42:24 GMT -5
In TL WE REQUIRED EVERY HUNTER TO REPORT EVERY ARROW THAT WAS LOST and every hunter had to put their hunter # on each arrow.We did that in case an anti-hunter tried to stick an arrow in a roadkill to make it look like hunters were wounding deer and also to keep people honest.We kept very detailed records.Every deer had to be checked in and at the end of the year everyone had to fill out a form saying how many deer were seen,missed and wounded.There was a committee that went out to recover wounded deer.I was on that committee and went out on hundreds of blood trails.At the end of the year,I used to compile the statistic of reported wounded deer.Very people reported that they wounded deer.Hell,I was on some of those bloodtrails so I know they wounded some.We had one committee member that would wound no less than 2 deer every year and sometimes more.I called him out and he lied right to my face.The wounding rate is closer to 50% than it is 90%.That's a fact.People lie for a couple of reasons.One is ego and the other is,they don't want to get booted for wounding too many deer.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 12:43:41 GMT -5
While my experiences at two hunting camps are not documented scientifically, and in no way should be considered as such, what I see from a quick perusal of our harvest data and the log books I kept for those two camps seems to agree with that study. Yes, we lost some deer. Over the thirty-two years (if memory serves), we have lost eight, but four of those were lost/wounded during gun(including flintlock) seasons. While four were lost during the archery seasons, both were a result of bad hits and/or bad shot choices. Any deer hit in the heart/lung area with either rifle or bow was recovered. I will try to get some time to look back through our logbooks next week when I am at camp and see if I can develop some sort of percentages. As to whether fixed blade or mechanical heads were used, I don't think I have that data from Camp Bucktail, but I know what kind of heads the guys at Camp Rip-N-Tear have used. All of us use mechanicals.
My logs from Camp Bucktail were lost in the 2012 fire that destroyed the cabin, but I was able to recreate much of them from other sources. The logs from Camp Rip-N-Tear are accurate and complete. Perhaps I chould limit my analysis to that camp. I have complete records from eleven years. Anyone who has a copy of the book CABIN FEVER can check to see if what I figure out is accurate, as all of those years are covered in it.
Oh, and Doug, I don't lie unless it suits me to do so. I make exceptions when talking to the W 1 FE unit, but seldom get away with it.LMAO2
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 12:46:19 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 12:47:23 GMT -5
Your data at Treasure Lake covers a whole bunch of hunters, Doug. Mine will cover only four, with only one guest involved in a shot taken. Perhaps since my guys are older and more experienced, our results may be better than average.
|
|
|
Post by dougell on Aug 31, 2018 13:10:59 GMT -5
Your data at Treasure Lake covers a whole bunch of hunters, Doug. Mine will cover only four, with only one guest involved in a shot taken. Perhaps since my guys are older and more experienced, our results may be better than average. That would make a big difference.My own personal wounding rate with a bow is zero although I have lost deer with a rifle.My one buddy that I hunt with every year is good for losing one or two every single year.His buddy that he used to bring up was even worse.In TL,we have anywhere from 115 to 200 hunters per year so it's a much bigger cross section of who's hunting.Everyone of them had to take a bowhunter-ed class and pass a proficiency test with broad heads.We had some really good hunters and some real boneheads.I would say more boneheads than good hunters.Now most of those deer probably ended up surviving but make no mistake about it,more than 10% get wounded,a lot more.The majority of hunters do not understand deer anatomy.
|
|
|
Post by dougell on Aug 31, 2018 13:11:34 GMT -5
Almost exactly the same as TL and people lied through their teeth.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 13:15:44 GMT -5
I did a quick look at my records. Since 2007 when we first hunted at our present camp we have taken 38 deer and 2 bears. 19 of the deer were taken with archery tackle. 19 via rifle or muzzy. We lost four deer total, two of them in archery season. Since all of our hunters use mechanical heads (Two use Rage, I use Wasp, not sure what Crawford uses), Results are as follows: Out of 21 deer hit we recovered 19. That computes to a 90.4% recovery rate. We hit 21 deer in gun seasons and recovered 19. Same recovery rate: 90.4% I will freely admit that one of the wounded deer was mine, and also that our results are probably not typical of the hunting population in general.
|
|
|
Post by dougell on Aug 31, 2018 13:15:58 GMT -5
I've had the opportunity to kill a lot of deer.I've lost track how many I've killed with a bow but it's pretty close to 100,if not more.I've recovered way more than that for other hunters and have been on hand when dozens have been shot.I've used and have seen just about every BH type be used.I can say with 100% confidence that the cutting diameter means very little.Blade sharpness,penetration and the ability to stay together are far more important.
|
|
|
Post by redarrow on Aug 31, 2018 14:16:34 GMT -5
It's been a long time since I've shot a deer with an arrow that I didn't recover. I do think broadheads can make a difference. I have only had one get away, out of at least a couple dozen, since I started shooting Muzzys, and I hit that buck too high behind the shoulder. A neighbor killed it a coulpe weeks later.
That said, I think the biggest factor for recovery are shot placement and experience of the guys who follow up the shot. We have recovered many deer(some shot by others who have asked for our help)that I think most people would have given up on.
The buck I shot last year looked like a perfect shot. It went about fifty yards, bleeding very little, and we couldn't find another speck of blood. It was headed for a thick grape vine tangle. There were about 30-45 minutes of daylight left, but if I would have been wrong about how good the shot was, I knew I would risk jumping the deer from it's bed and losing it. First light the next morning my wife, sons and brother entered the thicket from different directions to look for it. I found it about a minute after starting into the brush. It looked like it died before bedding down and was probably dead within a minute of so after the shot and I would have walked right up to it if I hadn't decided to back out. Still, I would do things the same way if it happened again today.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 18:04:16 GMT -5
We obviously are not losing too many. All of these were taken since 2007. Some of us aren't as picky as others.
|
|
|
Post by GlennD on Aug 31, 2018 18:45:18 GMT -5
Imho, and based on about 55 years of bowhunting, it is very hard to do any analysis. So much has changed over the years in equipment, technology, season lengths and bag limits. We can talk about a lot of stuff related to archery equipment, broadheads, xbows, compounds, traditional, and more stuff related to muzzleloaders and rifles. The one factor that cannot be controlled and has no consistency is the skill level of the hunter. In my opinion, the skill level of the hunter, has the most impact on recovery rates. Some people can kill deer consistently with a sharpened stick from the ground. Others will wound many with a scoped rifle from an elevated box stand, and even the ones mortally hit will not be found. Any sharp broadhead in the boiler room will kill quickly. They might run 150 yards, but a skilled hunter will find the animal. An unskilled hunter may not.. That being said I, like Doug, have killed more deer with the bow than I can remember. I have also lost more than I like to admit. Probably in the neighborhood of 10 percent. But remember, I am going back a long ways to when you could not draw a bow and hook the string behind your ear at full draw and get your range finder out.
|
|
|
Post by davet on Sept 1, 2018 19:27:10 GMT -5
Study funded by........the makers of mechanical broadheads of 'mercia. A non-profit fund 'em as we see it kind-a place! Doesn't appear to be funded by anyone. Retired engineer just compiled the data. And he knows more than me because.....??//////......?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 4:42:28 GMT -5
Doesn't appear to be funded by anyone. Retired engineer just compiled the data. And he knows more than me because.....??//////......? Just because, Dave. Just because.
|
|
|
Post by davet on Sept 2, 2018 6:49:52 GMT -5
And he knows more than me because.....??//////......? Just because, Dave. Just because. Oh...well, that 'splains it perfectly. Your a good man Mutt!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 6:56:37 GMT -5
I am just here to serve, Dave. Oh, please be sure to leave a good tip for the server. We also serve who stand and wait?
|
|
|
Post by 3212 on Sept 2, 2018 11:08:09 GMT -5
An interesting discussion for a rifle hunter like myself.I have no problem with bowhunting especially in the suburbs.If I would have had more free time I probably would have taken up archery.
|
|
|
Post by GlennD on Sept 2, 2018 11:47:04 GMT -5
Archery can be an eye opener for gun hunters. It is amazing how quickly a deer is down from a broadhead through the lungs or heart. Even a femoral artery hit causes death measured in seconds.
|
|
|
Post by redarrow on Sept 2, 2018 12:57:00 GMT -5
I have seen several deer drop after my arrow passed through them. I think many deer are startled more by the sound of the bow than feeling the arrow make contact. The massive blood loss from a good hit usually puts them down very quickly.
|
|
|
Post by redarrow on Sept 2, 2018 12:58:01 GMT -5
I have seen several deer drop after my arrow passed through them. I think many deer are startled more by the sound of the bow than feeling the arrow make contact. The massive blood loss from a good hit usually puts them down very quickly.
|
|