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Post by GlennD on Oct 4, 2017 15:26:55 GMT -5
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Post by Muab Dib on Oct 4, 2017 15:44:04 GMT -5
Yep Glenn, pretty soon we'll be inventing the "rifle". Muab
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Post by 3212 on Oct 4, 2017 15:51:42 GMT -5
Yep Glenn, pretty soon we'll be inventing the "rifle". Muab Hunting arms have been re-evolving for decades.Ya'll will soon catch up to my .243.
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Post by redarrow on Oct 4, 2017 16:56:27 GMT -5
Is the ultimate goal to make xbows as effective as rifles? It could make it possible to argue that even hunters have no use for centerfire rifles. smileys-whistling-823718
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Post by ridgecommander on Oct 4, 2017 17:29:41 GMT -5
Nah. It will only take a few shots at critters to realize that 100 yards is a long way on animals. Out west guys are regularly taking game at 60 yards and beyond with compounds. A well known outdoor personality shot a desert ram at over a 100 yards with his Mathews compound on TV. He hit it but that is not a shot most people should take, even with a crossbow.
The thing is it is only shooting 350 fps which is slow by crossbow standards. What crossbow manufacturers are finding out is that speed is not all that it is cracked up to be and are instead now focusing on ergonomics, which is what has happened in the compound market. The Mission is no more effective than crossbows from 15 years ago.
The Mission Sub-1 is a sweet bow with a lot of nice features. I acquaintance of mine was able to go to the factory and shoot the Sub-1 before it became available or known about by the public.
It is still shoots an arrow that kills by hemorrhage.
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Post by Dutch on Oct 4, 2017 18:43:10 GMT -5
So crossbows 15 years ago shot 1 inch groups at a 100 yds?
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Post by ridgecommander on Oct 4, 2017 19:24:47 GMT -5
So crossbows 15 years ago shot 1 inch groups at a 100 yds? Yes. With the right rest and arrow on a good day. Just as this new Mission. This 100 yard stuff is a new marketing ploy, that is very poor, IMO. I have let manufactures know my displeasure of those ads. The new Mission is 350 fps which is slow by today's crossbow standards. I could take your Parkers and shoot 100 groups under good conditions. So you know, my buddy who got to shoot the mew Mission at Mission's headquarters before it was released to the public shot it alongside other outdoor writers. 1 inch groups were not the norm. Far from it. One of the other outdoor writers wrote that he could easily group arrows into the vitals of an elk target at 100 yards. What is the size of the vitals on an elk target?
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Post by redarrow on Oct 4, 2017 19:25:06 GMT -5
Will it ever come to the point where hunters will collectively say that enough is enough? Or, will we just accept that it maybe the extreme effective range of a weapon, xbow or compound bow, bring a few more people into the hunting ranks? Is it possible for a weapon to take away the spirit of what archery hunting was intended to be? .......These questions are, in no way, intended to offend anyone.
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Post by ridgecommander on Oct 4, 2017 19:30:30 GMT -5
Will it ever come to the point where hunters will collectively say that enough is enough? Or, will we just accept that it maybe the extreme effective range of a weapon, xbow or compound bow, bring a few more people into the hunting ranks? Is it possible for a weapon to take away the spirit of what archery hunting was intended to be? .......These questions are, in no way, intended to offend anyone. I will say enough is enough when archery is no longer a close range sport. For now, the average shot distance for compounds and crossbows remains relatively close at under 30 yards, according to most studies. There is so much that can go wrong when shooting arrows at game at 100 yards at today's speeds. Now if technology advances to the point that arrow speeds reach .22 rimfire velocity, then things have radically been changed and archery is no longer a close range sport where woodsmanship trumps the weapon.
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Post by redarrow on Oct 4, 2017 19:40:45 GMT -5
At close range drawing the bow undetected can certainly be a big part of the challenge.
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Post by ridgecommander on Oct 4, 2017 19:50:03 GMT -5
At close range drawing the bow undetected can certainly be a big part of the challenge. It can. Less than it used to be though. Remember, vertical archers embraced compounds, high let off, releases, and treestands to minimize the draw. They can draw earlier and hold longer than ever before.
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Post by redarrow on Oct 4, 2017 19:58:55 GMT -5
Planning on just when to draw is a big part to being consistently successful, IMO.
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Post by ridgecommander on Oct 4, 2017 20:07:05 GMT -5
Planning on just when to draw is a big part to being consistently successful, IMO. Certainly but not as much as it used to be. Due to advancements in technology and acceptance of that technology by archers.
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Post by redarrow on Oct 4, 2017 20:16:01 GMT -5
Changed a little. Certainly not eliminated.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2017 20:17:59 GMT -5
Drawing isn't that hard, if guys would keep the weight down so that they can pull the string straight back instead of cranking it up and having to raise the bow up and then down again just to draw it back.
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Post by redarrow on Oct 4, 2017 20:21:40 GMT -5
It's not the effort required to draw the thing, it all about do so at the right time, Stroup.
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Post by ridgecommander on Oct 4, 2017 20:22:09 GMT -5
Changed a little. Certainly not eliminated. Correct. Never said the importance of the draw was eliminated. It has been substantially reduced. Some of you play it up as your ace in the hole then take advantage of everything you can to make it less of an impediment to success. If archery hunting was truly about the difficulty of drawing in the presence of game, all of these new technologies would have been shunned by archers. Your own acceptance of easier means opened the door.
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Post by bawanajim on Oct 4, 2017 20:24:53 GMT -5
This argument is so ridiculous, the first jennings compounds were far from an advancement, the bear polar II were not much better, it took compound bows ten years to add little if any advantage over quality recurves that Bear ,Ben Pearson and Black widow were putting out, by the time PA made Xbows legal a six year old was as deadly as most seasoned recurve shooters. And that hasn't changed except now you have to be seven to be a "Bowhunter".
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Post by ridgecommander on Oct 4, 2017 20:25:58 GMT -5
It's not the effort required to draw the thing, it all about do so at the right time, Stroup. And that window of time has increased dramatically.
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Post by redarrow on Oct 4, 2017 20:28:16 GMT -5
That is far far what it is all about. It's just one piece of the puzzle that needs fall into place for a successful shot. If the draw is detected, the best you can hope for is a shot at an alert deer.
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Post by ridgecommander on Oct 4, 2017 20:29:06 GMT -5
This argument is so ridiculous, the first jennings compounds were far from an advancement, the bear polar II were not much better, it took compound bows ten years to add little if any advantage over quality recurves that Bear ,Ben Pearson and Black widow were putting out, The door was opened, Jim. Acceptance of easier means that blew archery wide open.
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Post by bawanajim on Oct 4, 2017 20:38:38 GMT -5
That was said about that first guy eating an apple.....
We are not talking about bowhunting any longer, we are talking killing deer, the hunting part has been removed, not by the equipment as much as the attitude of acceptance of "its the kill" the hunt means little or nothing to the "glory photo" crowd. Call it what you want, its simply killing deer the hunt has long since been removed. When we accept that 4-5 year old children are our equals, then I'm going to say the bar is laying on the ground. I will not go there, you do whatever makes you happy, I just have a different mind set.
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Post by bawanajim on Oct 4, 2017 20:46:39 GMT -5
And I am far from saying all xbow hunters are in this crowd, many of my friends are forced to use xbows because of age and simply bodies that are worn out from life times of physical work. But these adds are clearly looking for a different customer than an older hunter with life long health issues.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2017 4:59:33 GMT -5
My friend and occasional hunting buddy has one of these. He killed a doe on Saturday with an 80 years shot. Great shot, no doubt, but that is rifled-barrel slug-gun range. Not my thing. I prefer short range shots, and drawing in the presence of game without being busted. To many, that's too hard, but that's what makes it exiting for me.
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Post by Dutch on Oct 5, 2017 5:11:29 GMT -5
And people make 80 yd shots on elk
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