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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2012 20:16:35 GMT -5
Was out this morning saw lots of tracks but no deer. One deer can make a lot of tracks. Hey stroupy, at least you are seeing tracks. Now you have to study them and figure out what they are saying to you. Tracks in the snow tell a story, very much like the printed word on a piece of paper. Finally I get to go out later this week to our camp and do some newspaper reading. ;D I think they are telling me the deer are moving at night.
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Post by wentzler on Dec 31, 2012 20:36:35 GMT -5
Wish y'all coulda been where i was today:) I went to pick up my deer bacon...at the guy's place what has the smokehouse I've always dreamed of having:) After meeting him, and figuring out in less than 5 minutes, he's an Artist in every aspect of the word...I figure I've got better things to do with my time than worry about making my own smokehouse:) Took my daughter-in-laws dad, here for the hoildays from the NE corner of Montana...along for the ride. I don't have any time time left in my life for dis-truths...and I'm tellin' yaz...there were a hundred sets of deer tracks crossin' the road every mile and a half...the whole dang trip. Be'in the nosey SOB i is...I keep pretty close tabs on the local scuttle butt...and all the local yocals are bitchin' their dumb a**es off there ain't NO DEER, "damn that PGC". i is wondering why..in darnations name...they can't see tracks in front of their eyes? ? And wonderin' why...they can't figure out what and why...made all them tracks? went to the back in mountains of west side Lycoming county today with dear, seer friends...snow almost up to my kiester... no tags for that WMU...took the bird dog...and way back there..in the way back...Hmm, deer tracks out the whazoo...right where a sentient human bing might best expect them to BE??? BTW...perfext day to work a three year old setter...she was carryin' ten pounds of snow of her tail feathers a half hour into the mess. Still, an old guy with a new artificial knee...could hardly keep up with her. Guys i was with...well they went backside of the far ridge with their flintguns. They didn't see squat...but sure enjoyed the day as well. We came off that mountain...listenin' to the Outlaws, "Green grass, High Tides"...as we do everytime we go up there...thinking we've got the whole world in our hands...and it don't get no better than PA...dead deer or no...and are thankful for every memory we've every made there...and we've made a BUNCH. And folks...it just doesn't get any better than THAT!!! We're in it for the long haul...and we'll take anybody what's got half an interest along with us How 'bout ya'll??? Shutter...check your pm(s) ed
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Post by stan on Dec 31, 2012 21:23:48 GMT -5
I will say this, the early archery season in the SW was overly warm. That warmth was broken by hurricane Sandy where the temperature was broken with nearly a foot of snow and mostly freezing temperatures that hung in the area for nearly two weeks. That temperature swing was 40 to 50 degrees basically over night. In those last weeks of archery season, there was a deep crusted snow as well.
Nearly impossible to hunt. Not only the crusty snow, but any and all patterns the deer had were gone.
Through bear season, the temperatures rose to the 40's over night and the 50 to the 70's through the day.
Rifle deer offered dry weather with cold to cool mornings warming to the 40 to 50 all day long by the end of the first week. The second week, more of the same with the exception of the last two days that were monsoons.
Now, keeping in mind that a deer with a winter coat is sensitive to heat. At around 40 degrees they feel the heat as if it was a hot August day. They go to ground and stay there until it cools off - or night time.
So hunters might be upset this year. But they need to be real, and realists about the conditions. No excuses, take a look at the weather patterns and apply it to the wildlife patterns. Add - how they related to it as well.
Of course we know that few will do that - so therefore they are not any deer.
Who's in.
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Post by stan on Dec 31, 2012 21:31:49 GMT -5
Need to add that those conditions were very localized in some parts of the SW. Others had similar conditions, others had other natural conditions. But Sandy had long reaching implications for wildlife in many parts of the state.
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Post by wentzler on Dec 31, 2012 21:51:07 GMT -5
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Post by galthatfishes on Dec 31, 2012 23:26:23 GMT -5
Need to add that those conditions were very localized in some parts of the SW. Others had similar conditions, others had other natural conditions. But Sandy had long reaching implications for wildlife in many parts of the state. EHD had a HUGE effect in the SW this year. Yes, the deer numbers will recover- but I heard a guy tonight who doesn't usually kill anything; but SEES a LOT (he's a farmer) say that he saw so few this year he wouldn't have shot a doe if he had SEEN one. He didn't. I think living local gives another perspective as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2013 6:24:59 GMT -5
A guy I know hunts in the area I do was up 14 times in archery season until he saw one deer the food was there this year beach, hickory and acorns and berries on the summer side of the mountain.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2013 6:26:55 GMT -5
By the way the guy doesn't know how to use a cell phone so we can't scapegoat the cell phone as to why he didn't see much. I also think the first day of rifle he didn't see anything so he hung it up for the year.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2013 7:52:31 GMT -5
Need to add that those conditions were very localized in some parts of the SW. Others had similar conditions, others had other natural conditions. But Sandy had long reaching implications for wildlife in many parts of the state. Most of the fall was pretty warm until Sandy rolled through. We managed to take only one deer, a doe, and as you say, the patterns changed. Very little movement during daylight, and the deer seemed to be staying in the shady timber. Sandy certainly put the kaibosh to my hunting for about 8 days, Stan. I spent those days running a chainsaw and dragging downed trees with my tractor. Didn't get to hunt until the middle of the last week of archery season, but did those last four days end up being super. All three of us had shots at bucks and two scored on them plus two does. All in all, with the bear in archery season, this turned out to be one of the best hunting seasons in memory, which goes back a few years before Denny began. ;D A new year begins today. May you all get time to enjoy the outdoors. May you appreciate the beauty of nature, even during the mean season of winter. May your weapons speak and your aim be true. May the sun shine on you, and when it doesn't, may your rain gear be leak free. May your boots keep your feet warm and dry, and may the hunting gods smile on you and give you game to hunt. The rest is up to you. Happy new year.
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Post by richg on Jan 1, 2013 8:28:05 GMT -5
Jobs get in the way of hunting. ;D Heck Doug,I should send the yotes over your way.We hear them all the time at night.A couple years back I saw a white one chasing an adult deer at parker dam.Too far for a shotgun or he'd be mounted. A white one?Was he playing fetch with bigfoot lol? My eyesight must be really bad.My neighbors all see a family of mountain lions,black panthers,indian ghosts and Bigfoot.We have so many bigfoot sightings that they brought a crew of people in from the state of Oklahoma in last spring.These people stayed with some of my neighbors for 3 weeks.They actually saw bigfoot as well as some of the deer remains from his kills.That's what's happening to the deer Rich.They actually have pictures on a website with all this nonsense.I'll see if I can find it and shoot you the link. Hell Doug I have an explanation for that,those orbs and stuff they see from outer space are spooks.Yinz got ghosts running around up there! As for bigfeet,I'm not sure if my buddy pigger was up that way or not.He has a camp in clearfield.You put a camo suit on a guy six foot nine and 400 pounds he's gonna look like something. ;D
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Post by richg on Jan 1, 2013 8:41:32 GMT -5
As for the yotes,my son saw one running an adult in rifle season.In bow season the oldest shot a buck back in pretty good about an hour before quitting time.After I was done hunting I took the deer cart halfway to him.We met took a break and a pack of yotes went nuts right where his cut pile was.Kinda eery at night.Those things are so hard to kill and during the day are like ghosts.I've seen two white ones in my life and would love one on a mount.You can never judge the populations by sightings because they're so slick.Scat,tracks and vocals at night.We hear them most in the fall and especially winter.Somebody on the other sight showed an adult deer kill from yotes.I think it was tussy mountain.While they're cool to hear at night I also think they're doing a number on animals like rabbit and to some extent our deer.Deep snow gives them advantages on the deer especially the smaller yearlings. There's articles being wrote on the bigger impact yotes are having on deer populations then previously thought.
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Post by richg on Jan 1, 2013 8:43:07 GMT -5
Man I just read my post,my spelling sucked but I'm too lazy to edit.
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Post by richg on Jan 1, 2013 8:53:49 GMT -5
Rich, upstate, it takes a 3 year old doe to drop twins. If the does are being hammered, fewer does make it to that age and thus, you'll see fewer twins. Sorta like we had with bucks before antler restrictions. To much pressure on a segment of the population, lowers the average age of that segment. I agree Brad but We're on the edge of a very rugged big chunk of state forest which is very hard to get too.Very few hunters hunt the place except for a couple of maniacs like my son and his buddy.There's definately mature deer in there but it's the same result,does are alone or almost always with one fawn.Keep in mind this certainly isn't a scientific study.I'm just passing along our experiences.
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Post by TusseyMtman on Jan 1, 2013 9:17:23 GMT -5
Yes, I do have a fresh coyote kill of a deer in the snow documented in pictures a few hrs after it happened. I don't have time to put in on here right now. It was a button buck that had a 2 week old bullet hole through its front leg. I will say you are right about the coyotes in certain areas only. However, the human doe kill is usually low in these hard to reach areas to begin with and the yotes are simply doing the job hunters won't. I have found 3 kills total now in the winter over the past several years. Two were in the late winter when the young deer are stressed. The one a couple weeks ago the deer was wounded by a human. Yes, they all were button bucks.
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Post by Dutch on Jan 1, 2013 9:22:40 GMT -5
The problem with finding carcasses in the woods is that we really don't know how they died, but seeing yote tracks doesn't mean a yote killed the deer either.
The PGC study said that only 2% of the collared adult does were killed by yotes, so, I'll go with that, but will still say that the yotes just harass deer during the winter, testing to see if any are weak/wounded.
But this harrassment, keeps deer on their toes. Untril the mid 80's, pretty much, few deer in PA were harassed by any serious predators.
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Post by Dutch on Jan 1, 2013 9:22:55 GMT -5
The problem with finding carcasses in the woods is that we really don't know how they died, but seeing yote tracks doesn't mean a yote killed the deer either.
The PGC study said that only 2% of the collared adult does were killed by yotes, so, I'll go with that, but will still say that the yotes just harass deer during the winter, testing to see if any are weak/wounded.
But this harrassment, keeps deer on their toes. Untril the mid 80's, pretty much, few deer in PA were harassed by any serious predators.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2013 9:38:11 GMT -5
To the OP question "the unhappiness of hunters has bumped up a notch this year". Here's a PGC sign in a Luzerne cnty SGL. This should answer the question. LOL FT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2013 9:40:20 GMT -5
To the OP question "the unhappiness of hunters has bumped up a notch this year". Here's a PGC sign in a Luzerne cnty SGL. This should answer the question. LOL FT I heard deer are pretty good with magic markers!! ;D
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Post by GlennD on Jan 1, 2013 9:40:44 GMT -5
I belong to another outdoors site here in Maryland.. Marylandwhitetail.com. Kind of interesting to see the same discussion about lack of deer and mismanagement by the Maryland DNR. Many think too many does are being killed.
One of the long ongoing discussions among PA hunters is size of WMU. Some think they should be smaller enabling more precise management. It just occurred to me this morning that is probably impossible. For example:
Right up the road from where I live there is a farm/woodlot parcel of about 300 acres that always seems to have about 50 deer out in the fields almost any time of the day. On some days I have probably seen close to 100.
A friend of mine leases a 300 acre farm within about 5 miles of parcel one. I used to belong to his club and deer numbers were good. This last year however they saw very few deer compared to years past. What do you suppose happened to the deer numbers just 5 miles apart?
I also lease a farm of about 300 acres. We have a good number of deer. Every time I have hunted the farm this year I have seen upwards of 15-20 deer. However, just about 3 miles away, another fella I know reports the number of deer on his farm has crashed. They do know however that many deer succumbed to EHD. They found many carcasses on their land. Another hunter reports on the site mentioned above the same phenomena.. lots of deer on one parcel and hardly any on another just a few miles away.
Additionally, these populations of deer seem to regularly fluctuate from one year to another.
In my opinion, these pockets of lots of deer and no deer in such a small geographic area point to factors other than doe harvests and hunting pressure. Top of my list for this area is EHD or Blue Tongue.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2013 10:28:14 GMT -5
Glenn, EHD is not spread animal to animal, it is cause by biting midges.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2013 11:54:18 GMT -5
It's funny to hear others from out of area, who have a different perception, commenting on "our deer" situation and the differences in hunting regulations.
I have tenants from Louisiana, Tennessee Oklahoma and Utah. All of them seemed really amazed that they can drive around and see deer calmly feeding within 100 yards of a road. All also commented on seeing"so many" deer and they are impressed with the size of our deer.
They work on the pipelines except for one guy who builds compressor stations and they have no days off except for Sundays. They, of course, have not bothered to get hunting licenses because of the lack of Sunday hunting allowance. It really is laughable to outsiders that there is no Sunday hunting for big game. Especially, so expressed by them, when there are so many deer..........
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Post by dennyf on Jan 1, 2013 12:27:08 GMT -5
Imagine how excited they would be, had they been around in the late 90s? I've pretty much quit engaging those who constantly fuss about "not enough deer". While I readily acknowledge that there are lots of places in PA that fit that description, I now consider those who chronically fuss about it, as bawl babies beyond redemption. Especially those I know that were complaining about deer numbers, back when we had way too many of 'em around. Since I became our club's PFSC rep about 11 years ago, a few made it a point to grumble to me after each firearms season. Then a few years ago some of 'em started doe hunting in a county adjacent to the county their camp is in and got a doe each year. But they continue to fuss about "no deer", where they want to hunt them.
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Post by richg on Jan 1, 2013 15:11:16 GMT -5
The problem with finding carcasses in the woods is that we really don't know how they died, but seeing yote tracks doesn't mean a yote killed the deer either. The PGC study said that only 2% of the collared adult does were killed by yotes, so, I'll go with that, but will still say that the yotes just harass deer during the winter, testing to see if any are weak/wounded. But this harrassment, keeps deer on their toes. Untril the mid 80's, pretty much, few deer in PA were harassed by any serious predators. Yep 2% on adults sounds about right.I'd think the impact on fawns is more.
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Post by Dutch on Jan 1, 2013 15:24:14 GMT -5
The problem with finding carcasses in the woods is that we really don't know how they died, but seeing yote tracks doesn't mean a yote killed the deer either. The PGC study said that only 2% of the collared adult does were killed by yotes, so, I'll go with that, but will still say that the yotes just harass deer during the winter, testing to see if any are weak/wounded. But this harrassment, keeps deer on their toes. Untril the mid 80's, pretty much, few deer in PA were harassed by any serious predators. Yep 2% on adults sounds about right.I'd think the impact on fawns is more. The impact on fawns is FAR greater, but the PGC messed with how it wrote up the predator study and its more difficult to extrapolate the data. If I remember, in poor forest habitat, something like 50% of fawns were killed by predators. That said, I believe no fawns past 13 weeks of age were killed by predators.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2013 15:25:15 GMT -5
Actually, you can tell by breaking the femur bone if a deer starved to death or was starving by the look of the bone marrow.
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