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Post by wentzler on Nov 27, 2013 19:25:08 GMT -5
Brother..if it moves us forward...nahh..never mind  Use whatever I say or write..any way you want to. I'm pretty careful not to ever put anything in print I'd care to have 'used'. ( My very 'stately' ma-ma told me when I was just 14 tender years... "Never put anything on paper you don't want shoved up yer a** " |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2013 16:54:38 GMT -5
I have shot my buddies crossbow and shoot a compound. To say the compound is easier is a flat out lie. I have no problem with crossbows either. If you torque your bow you can miss. You can hit your sleeve or arm. You have to be able to draw back on a mature buck where with a crossbow all you have to do is pull up and aim. The compound requires more practice then just siting in your scope on your crossbow. I don't think using the compound is as hard as people make it out but it is harder then the crossbow.
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Post by davet on Nov 28, 2013 20:34:50 GMT -5
To say the compound is easier is a flat out lie. It's probably a good guess that statistically speaking, you graduated in the upper 3% of the lower 5% of your graduating High School Class. Plus or minus a deviation of 2 points. Dave |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2013 20:58:17 GMT -5
To say the compound is easier is a flat out lie. It's probably a good guess that statistically speaking, you graduated in the upper 3% of the lower 5% of your graduating High School Class. Plus or minus a deviation of 2 points. Dave You keep lying to yourself and believing the crossbow is harder then a vertical bow.Hey if it makes you feel good who am I to stop you. I shot both I know through experience I shoot a compound and have already developed bad habits and shot like crap until I figured out what I was doing wrong. Not hard to screw up with a crossbow point and shoot. I never shot a crossbow before until I shot my friends and the first time I shot I shot in the bulls' eye. If I can just pick it up and be lethal with it then it isn't hard. It wasn't the same with a compound it took a couple weeks practice to shoot decent and got better as I got older. Now if you want to personal attack me take it through private message and we will deal with it. Won't do it on this topic. Bryan |
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Post by Dutch on Nov 28, 2013 21:51:11 GMT -5
To say the compound is easier is a flat out lie. It's probably a good guess that statistically speaking, you graduated in the upper 3% of the lower 5% of your graduating High School Class. Plus or minus a deviation of 2 points. Dave Not cool Dave, not cool at all. |
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Post by bake545 on Nov 28, 2013 22:13:45 GMT -5
To say the compound is easier is a flat out lie. It's probably a good guess that statistically speaking, you graduated in the upper 3% of the lower 5% of your graduating High School Class. Plus or minus a deviation of 2 points. Dave Why didn't you just call him stupid and save yourself some typing? The arrogance, geez. |
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Post by cspot on Nov 28, 2013 22:22:08 GMT -5
It was nice to think that we were past all this crapola, but I guess I was not thinking correctly. I agree! |
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Post by ridgecommander on Nov 29, 2013 6:30:37 GMT -5
To say the compound is easier is a flat out lie. It's probably a good guess that statistically speaking, you graduated in the upper 3% of the lower 5% of your graduating High School Class. Plus or minus a deviation of 2 points. Dave Yikes!! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2013 7:32:45 GMT -5
I have shot my buddies crossbow and shoot a compound. To say the compound is easier is a flat out lie. I have no problem with crossbows either. If you torque your bow you can miss. You can hit your sleeve or arm. You have to be able to draw back on a mature buck where with a crossbow all you have to do is pull up and aim. The compound requires more practice then just siting in your scope on your crossbow. I don't think using the compound is as hard as people make it out but it is harder then the crossbow. Calling someone a liar sometime initiates an appropriate reply so if you cast a stone...expect it to boomerang back accordingly!  Hope all had a nice Thanksgiving...I did! |
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Post by wentzler on Nov 29, 2013 7:41:42 GMT -5
Civility among mankind is too rare, those of us who use these boards should take time to fix that amongst ourselves. I started on me, first  |
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Post by ridgecommander on Nov 29, 2013 7:42:23 GMT -5
To get back to the topic of the discussion, maybe??
I did have a good conversation with another commissioner yesterday, of all days. Those that say our BOC is not responsive to hunters have not tried or they go about it in a manner that warrants no response.
Anyway, this commissioner seems to feel the majority of the board is way beyond this issue but he does understand there remains some opposition. He said the correspondence the board receives that offers up crossbow concerns is greatly decreased. Very rare actually.
He also agrees that the PGC data is the best defense for our archery seasons to remain strong and vibrant.
Good stuff!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2013 8:09:27 GMT -5
I have shot my buddies crossbow and shoot a compound. To say the compound is easier is a flat out lie. I have no problem with crossbows either. If you torque your bow you can miss. You can hit your sleeve or arm. You have to be able to draw back on a mature buck where with a crossbow all you have to do is pull up and aim. The compound requires more practice then just siting in your scope on your crossbow. I don't think using the compound is as hard as people make it out but it is harder then the crossbow. Calling someone a liar sometime initiates an appropriate reply so if you cast a stone...expect it to boomerang back accordingly! Hope all had a nice Thanksgiving...I did! Telling people they need to reevaluate themselves or reexamine whatever you always say is the same thing Loggy of claiming because someone who doesn't post pictures of the harvest isn't a good hunter. There is always one thing in common when things on this site get heated. Your involved. By the way I didn't call him a liar. There are a couple people who have said the compound is easier yet he thinks it's ok to call me stupid just like you did the other week. I never quoted him but yet he did me to call me stupid. Don't make excuses for what the two of you said. |
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Post by davet on Nov 29, 2013 8:42:44 GMT -5
Well, let's evaluate:
1- Mr. Stroupy not only initiated the back 'n fourth post between Loggy and JohnS, but he kept instigating the post until he got what he wanted. Which was put in his place by the two senior members. Then the other members came to his rescue. Really, you older guys need to get with the program and dish out some old fashion "Med's". A little whoop-ass on a dumb-ass is always appropriate when needed. And in this case, a diaper wearing immature short vision case is long overdue.
2- Mr. Stroupy complains that there are too many disabled hunters in the place that's designated for disabled hunters. Why? Because that's where he hunts and he apparently doesn't want the disabled hunters to kill a deer that he may kill. Well, all I can say is if I were young and strong and could walk, I would be on a mountain where few would be. Especially any diaper wearing teet sucking whining immature, let's push the disabled out of there place to hunt crybabies like this.
3- Anyone who calls me a lier gets it right back. Call me out, you get what you ask for. Keep pushing it and I will push back. You want a "discussion" with words? If forgotten more words than you will ever know. Grow up .
Dave
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Post by ridgecommander on Nov 29, 2013 8:50:19 GMT -5
Really, fellas? Lets not kill what was a good thread about some current huntig issues.
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Post by ridgecommander on Nov 29, 2013 8:50:56 GMT -5
Really, fellas? Lets not kill what was a good thread about some current hunting issues.
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Post by Bill on Nov 29, 2013 8:57:10 GMT -5
popcorn
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Post by GlennD on Nov 29, 2013 8:57:12 GMT -5
A friend once said my Momma was so ugly she got a job outside the doctors office making people sick. So, I told him his girl friend had everything a man could want: big muscles, mustache, hair on her chest. It was all fun and games until he mentioned the crossbow! Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using proboards |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2013 9:18:04 GMT -5
Back on the crossbow impacting the resource.
I agree a crossbow is "easier" to use in harvesting a deer if compared to a casual compound shooter/bowhunter. When I say casual I mean the shooters who get their compounds out mid-summer and sling a few arrows weekly prior to season. My first 10 years(1964-1974 timeframe give or take) in the sport I was a longbow hunter and even there i can see some hunting instances where I would have opted for the longbow without question vs a crossbow if they were allowed. Ones person skill level is ALL determinitive in comparing the two IMO. With a crossbow hunter compared to a highly seasoned compound hunter with a modern tricked out bow....no way would one opt for the crossbow as I posted earlier before the this boat left its channel.
All in all....i see no negative resource impact whatsover since full inclusion. I do think it did enable some more youth to get active in the sport
before they deveolped the physical ability to fully benefit from what today's modern compounds afford the hunter.
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Post by GlennD on Nov 29, 2013 9:27:30 GMT -5
While on the subject, let me add my own personal opinion.. and not to imply somehow I am any more or less skilled than any other, just my own personal experience.. I have been archery hunting since 1956. I grew up with a longbow in hand many hours of the day. I shot just about everything that moved or didn't. I used to get my friends to throw flying targets for me.. and yes, I hit them pretty regularly.. I evolved along with the equipment. I went through releases, clickers, draw checks, kissers, peeps, stabilizers, multi-pin sights, and whole plethora of rests, and of course tried all the gimmicky broadheads. .. entertaining.. As age began to creep up on me and health issues began to take a toll I finally gave in to the crossbow. I like many, thought the crossbow made it too easy.. After a few years, I am not so sure there is much difference, and in many cases the longbow or compound has distinct advantage.. Today, as my health issues are temporarily under control, I have been able to use one of my old Compounds with a finger tab, a springy rest, and a three pin sight. And it feels good! I have a Ten Point Titan crossbow that I bought a few years back when I could not pull any longbow. I found out quickly that it was heavy, cumbersome to carry around, no more accurate than I was with my old compound at ranges out to 20 yards, and there was limited chance for a second shot. The only way I could re-cock the darn thing was with the crank.. I have no doubt some of the newer crossbows have extended the accuracy range out to 50-60 yards or so, but rare that an archer shoots at that range. And, truth is, any good compound shooter worth a grain of salt can also hit the vital at 50 yards, as long as they know the range accurately.. and knowing the exact yardage is critical with the crossbow too. They are not the flat "crossbows" that many make them out to be. The only advantage that a crossbow provides that I will concede to is overnight accuracy. Yes, you can pick up a crossbow, sight it in and you can hit the vital at 20 yards. That fact alone however does not make you a lethal deer hunter. As many have argued (mostly the vertical bow crowd) you still have to wait for the shot and not spook the deer with movement or noise. And, believe it or not it is just as easy to make movement and unintended noise with a crossbow as any other hunting weapon. But, the point here is overnight proficiency.. in my view this proficiency is not necessarily a bad thing. We all have known for years that a high percentage of traditional archers are not very well prepared when they pick up the bow a couple days before the season and head into the woods. And even if they are prepared to the nth degree, I have known some outstanding target archers who could not hit the broadside of a bull elephant in the woods! Anyhow, given my choice of the two I will go with a traditional bow over a crossbow any day. Plus, the fewer gadgets on the bow the better. I really enjoy going back to near instinctive shooting with a finger tab and a three pin sight. Feels good.. Hope everybody has a fun season, and good luck with whatever brings your venison home. |
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Post by dougell on Nov 29, 2013 9:39:18 GMT -5
Why do people get so bent out of shape because because someone says crossbows are easier?It isn't a put down to anyone that uses them.They are easier and that ease of use was their selling point to get more people involved.At this point,they seem to be doing just that without impacting the resource and that's a good thing.Not one time on this thread did anyone infer that crossbow users were lazy or any less of hunters than anyone else.Compounds are way easier to use than traditional gear and I use a compound because of that.I draw the line there but really could care less what anyone else uses.I also have a great deal of admiration for those who dedicate themselves to using nothing but traditional gear.
Many,many seasoned,experienced and successful bowhunters have switched to a crossbow without going back to a compound because the crossbow has advantages.To some people,the kill or the size of the buck is what defines the experience.For others,it's just about the challenge and the hunt.For other people,it's somewhere in the middle.It's all good as long as they're getting out of it what they set out for.The way I look at it,crossbows are giving more people a chance to define their own experience.
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Post by bowbum on Nov 29, 2013 10:04:16 GMT -5
"this commissioner seems to feel the majority of the board is way beyond this issue but he does understand there remains some opposition."
Ridge, I started this thread --- not about crossbows being accepted or restricted, opposed or anything related to that old debate. That is a done deal and no matter how any of us feels about lethality or comparisons --- it's over.
What I was trying to get at was to verify, denounce or consider Jay Delaney's remarks about "breeding" imbalance due to early harvesting of bucks.
Apparently he was expressing his own, personal, concerns and there seems to be no data, research, studies or concerns initiated by our deer management team or other professionals.
I think it is just plain silly for this to be an opportunity to steer the topic back to --- my mommas car is faster than your mommas car, type of discussion. (that's not directed at anyone in particular).
Ironically, the day after I started this thread, (Wednesday), there was a picture in the Sullivan Review of an 8 year old Nordmont gal with a really nice 8 pt and it was --- her 3rd buck with a crossbow.
A Dushore business woman, who is part of a big hunting family that 600 acres of prime hunting land, pointed the picture out to me. She said she knows the family and questioned that a 6, 7 then 8 year old girl could manage 3 such accomplishments when her own group has no such record of success.
That is the kind of harmful speculation I resent but I hear it all the time.
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Post by GlennD on Nov 29, 2013 10:11:53 GMT -5
Our own personal experience with something as diversified as hunting should never be used as a metric to judge others..
Here is a dandy of a buck killed by a local youth a couple miles from where I live.. Be hard for her to top this one!!
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Post by davet on Nov 29, 2013 10:18:21 GMT -5
Our own personal experience with something as diversified as hunting should never be used as a metric to judge others.. Here is a dandy of a buck killed by a local youth a couple miles from where I live.. Be hard for her to top this one!! WOW!! Nice one Glenn. She has now set a high standard for herself for the rest of her hunting life!! I can only hope she beats it several times over!!! Dave |
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Post by dougell on Nov 29, 2013 10:18:33 GMT -5
I have a Ten Point Titan crossbow that I bought a few years back when I could not pull any longbow. I found out quickly that it was heavy, cumbersome to carry around, no more accurate than I was with my old compound at ranges out to 20 yards, and there was limited chance for a second shot. The only way I could re-cock the darn thing was with the crank..
I have no doubt some of the newer crossbows have extended the accuracy range out to 50-60 yards or so, but rare that an archer shoots at that range. And, truth is, any good compound shooter worth a grain of salt can also hit the vital at 50 yards, as long as they know the range accurately.. and knowing the exact yardage is critical with the crossbow too. They are not the flat "crossbows" that many make them out to be.
The older and mid to lower end crossbows were loud,heavy,cumbersome and not really any faster than a compound.The technology improvements are just in their infancy but they aren't the same animal they were a few years ago.Some of them aren't any more heavy or cumbersome than a rifle.They're quiet ,much more narrow and fast as hell.I've shot a pile of them recently and have shot a bunch of older ones.The older one's didn't impress me.The newer ones do and they'll keep getting better.When you shoot in excess of 350 fps,you esentially have a very flat shooting arrow close to 40 yards.That's a huge advantage.With farther distances,you do have to have the range but guys are absolutely killing deer in excess of 50 yards.Even at that distance,there's a huge difference in just putting a crosshair on something vs,using two aiming pints and having to use perfect form.When you approach 50 yards with a compound,your form has to be perfect and there's a huge difference doing it on a range vs having cold stiff muscles and bulky cloths.
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Post by dougell on Nov 29, 2013 10:24:25 GMT -5
A Dushore business woman, who is part of a big hunting family that 600 acres of prime hunting land, pointed the picture out to me. She said she knows the family and questioned that a 6, 7 then 8 year old girl could manage 3 such accomplishments when her own group has no such record of success.
That is the kind of harmful speculation I resent but I hear it all the time.
A few years ago,I was at the gym when a couple of the guys were saying basically the same thing.My kid wasn't old enough to take out so I didn't really have an opinion.A year later I bought him a pellet gun for his 6th birhday.He could even shoot it because it was too big.I went to Walmart later that day,picked up the smallest bb gun I could find and hacked about 2 inches off the stock.He couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with it and I really started to believe that youngs kids wouldn't be ready to hunt until most were around 10 or 11 years old.Just sixth months later,I bought him a cricket and he started doing very good.Six months after that,he was hitting the vitals of a deer every time at 80 yards with a .243.Kids learn fast and are capable of a lot more than people give them credit for.
Last year he hunted for the first time and we still hunted most of the time.There's not a lot of pressure in this part of the state and I have way better success still hunting during rifle season than I do sitting for hours on end.We hunted the first day and both saturdays.Between the two of us,we killed 6 deer,including a big 11 point with a third main beam.Prior to the season,I honestly thought I'd just be taking a gun for a walk if he was with me but that wasn't the case.We bth killed deer tat were still in their beds.This year,I hunted some days during archery season by myself.Other than that,he's been with me every time.I don't even want to go out without him.He doesn't complain,slow me down or really hamper me from seeing game.He has to shoot with a shooting stick so he isn't as versatile as he could be but he gets more chances to pull the trigger than I thought.When he does pull the trigger,usually there's meat laying there.He shoots a lot but still,I'm amazed at good a young kid can do.
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Use whatever I say or write..any way you want to. I'm pretty careful not to ever put anything in print I'd care to have 'used'. ( My very 'stately' ma-ma told me when I was just 14 tender years... "Never put anything on paper you don't want shoved up yer a** " 
