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Post by flounder on Jul 12, 2017 16:00:52 GMT -5
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Post by fleroo on Jul 13, 2017 6:57:03 GMT -5
Gettin' along nears that there Elk herd now ? The western states Elk can sustain the disease, since they are spread far and wide. PA's herd is quite concentrated in relativity. Could spell disaster there.
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Post by 3212 on Jul 13, 2017 7:18:17 GMT -5
They better get on it with the sharpshooters and not fool around like they did in the past.Illinois jumps on situations like this.
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Post by turkeykiller on Jul 13, 2017 7:40:10 GMT -5
I wonder if the PGC will issue "extra" cow elk tags to stop the spread of CWD in elk, like the are doin for deer.
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Post by Dutch on Jul 13, 2017 14:02:59 GMT -5
Our wild deer herds are being put in jeopardy just because of the deer farms.
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Post by 3212 on Jul 13, 2017 14:25:30 GMT -5
We've got two agencies running this show.The dept of agriculture is concerned with maintaining a farming operation and the game commission is concerned with maintaining a wild herd.IMO not a good situation since deer are a wild animal and should never have been farmed.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2017 14:28:11 GMT -5
Exactly!
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Post by turkeykiller on Jul 13, 2017 14:49:02 GMT -5
First of all, I am not an advocate of deer farms. I dont believe in rasin wild animals in a fence for people to shoot. That being said, I dont believe anybody can say with with certainty that deer farms caused it in Pa. Were there deer farms out West where this started 20 some yrs ago? Did it get here from Pa hunters bringin their deer home for butcherin? Did it get here thru migration? It is easy to blame the deer farms because of the ease of testin them, verses killin wild deer in the woods and testin them. Yes, the farms may have helped spread it, but there are too many variables and unknowns to lay blame at the PGC or the Dept of Arg.
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Post by 3212 on Jul 13, 2017 15:52:04 GMT -5
My concern now is not how it got here.My concern now is how they(both agencies) are responding to it.
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Post by dougell on Jul 13, 2017 16:41:11 GMT -5
This is my backyard and I'm pretty familiar with it.Two captive deer,that I know of were found to have cwd not too far away in Jefferson county but still far enough for me to think that wasn't what caused this.There's a ton of Amish in the area where that deer was found and many of them are deer farmers.A customer of mine killed a big 10 point behind the one farm.When he took it to get mounted,the taxidermist said it was once captive because of the distinct hole in it's ear.A few months later,the guy responded to a fire at the Amish guys farm and he jumped all over him for shooting one of his bucks he let go to breed with the wild does.I know this guy well and I'm 100% certain that happened.just speculation on my part but it disturbed me enough at the time that I reported it.
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Post by dennyf on Jul 13, 2017 18:32:27 GMT -5
The "wasting disease" was first noticed in mule deer in Colorado, back in the late 60s. It was eventually identified as CWD in the 70s. IIRC, the initial CWD discoveries were found in western, captive elk back then?
Given that farmed cervids have been shipped back and forth between multiple states for years, I'd have to say the practice has played a crucial role in the spread of CWD into about 30 some states and provinces by now. Anyone that claims it hasn't played a role, still has their head where the sun doesn't shine.
My opinion, cervid farming here in PA, should've been halted when CWD showed up in PA. And beyond that, it was a critical mistake for the Legislature to have taken cervid farming away from PGC and handing it off to Ag.
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Post by turkeykiller on Jul 13, 2017 19:05:52 GMT -5
boy I'm glad I mentioned in my post the deer farms played a role in the spread of CWD. Otherwise I would be havin trouble breathein. Since it was first discovered, there has been thousands of hunters bring mule deer back to Pa. How many dumped the carcass's in the woods after butcherin. I would guess far more than the number of live deer shipped to farms here. Everybody has a theory, no one knows for sure.
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Post by ridgecommander on Jul 14, 2017 6:39:16 GMT -5
We've got two agencies running this show.The dept of agriculture is concerned with maintaining a farming operation and the game commission is concerned with maintaining a wild herd.IMO not a good situation since deer are a wild animal and should never have been farmed. So are pheasants, bison, salmon, oysters, quail, trout, talapia etc.... Should we never farm them either? Heck even modern farmed pigs, chickens, beef all originated from wild stock. The antis wish there to not be any farming of any animals. If we start with deer, where does it stop? All farmed animals are prone to disease. The answer is strict enforcement and regulation of all farmed animals. When we stop farming wildlife, more pressure will be put on wild stocks. That does not bode well for the future of those species. A significant percentage of deer are farmed for food. A number of bad diseases have come from farmed animals. Swine flu, avian flu, mad cow etc..... All having the potential to cripple other animal populations and potentially cause illness to humans. No one called for the stoppage of farming those animals except the antis. |
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Post by 3212 on Jul 14, 2017 6:42:45 GMT -5
We've got two agencies running this show.The dept of agriculture is concerned with maintaining a farming operation and the game commission is concerned with maintaining a wild herd.IMO not a good situation since deer are a wild animal and should never have been farmed. So are pheasants, bison, salmon, oysters, quail, trout, talapia etc.... Heck even modern farmed pigs, chickens, beef all originated from wild stock. The antis wish there to not be any farming of any animals. If we start with deer, where does it stop? All farmed animals are prone to disease. The answer is strict enforcement and regulation of all farmed animals. When we stop farming wildlife, more pressure will be put on wild stocks. That does not bode well for the future of those species. A significant percentage of deer are farmed for food. |
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Post by 3212 on Jul 14, 2017 6:43:57 GMT -5
Tell that to the Amishman who turned his 10pt loose to breed the wild does.
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Post by ridgecommander on Jul 14, 2017 6:49:56 GMT -5
Tell that to the Amishman who turned his 10pt loose to breed the wild does. Which is why strict enforcement and regulation is the answer, not the elimination of farmed animals or wildlife. This goes way beyond deer if one wishes to look at the issue objectively. Many, many different animals and wildlife are farmed for a variety of reason. Food being a big part of it. Many, many diseases have originated from these farmed operations that threatened both animal and human populations. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2017 7:01:33 GMT -5
boy I'm glad I mentioned in my post the deer farms played a role in the spread of CWD. Otherwise I would be havin trouble breathein. Since it was first discovered, there has been thousands of hunters bring mule deer back to Pa. How many dumped the carcass's in the woods after butcherin. I would guess far more than the number of live deer shipped to farms here. Everybody has a theory, no one knows for sure. Probably very few brought whole mule deer home from out west. Most would have brought home either boned out meat in a cooler or meat they got cut up in a butcher shop. The carcasses would stay out west where they killed the deer. I hunted out west a number of times and always brought meat back. If I brought any part of the head home it would have been a cape and the antlers. No parts which would be prime spreaders of the prions. I would not waste my time doing that. If you like to eat venison, it makes no sense to bring a whole deer home from out west, thereby allowing it to spoil a bit before butchering. Meanwhile, many live deer were imported by fenced operations and deer farms into PA from a number of states. Brad Gsell who ran Gsell's Whitetails told me that he had imported genetic stock from over a dozen states for his operation. Brad sold Gsell's Whitetails a few years ago. I suspect he saw the handwriting on the wall and took his profit. |
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Post by dennyf on Jul 14, 2017 7:28:19 GMT -5
Ridge, your position has lots of support in some quarters, but misses one critical component that's worth pointing out:
AG interests have a long history and background of experience, in recognizing/dealing with common livestock diseases.
It's why we have fairly frequent situations of industry-wide moratoriums on the shipment of affected livestock, whenever something like avian influenza, scabies, swine flu and other common afflictions show up. For example, fowl were banned from the Farm Show exhibitions for some time, over concerns with one or two infectious avian diseases. I think this past show was the first one in some time, to permit domestic fowl again?
AG departments, vets and farmers have long been familiar with such diseases, their symptoms and treatment, plus what accepted practices are in containing the spread of them to other areas. That hasn't happened quickly enough with CWD in farmed elk and deer, but for other states imposing their own restrictions on PA, for example.
The first joint meeting on CWD, held by AG and PGC at the Farm Show complex, was mostly attended by irate cervid farmers who were mad about not being able to export their animals. AG reps seemed to be overwhelmed by the situation and gave vague responses to questions from the non-farmers.
My impression: They were totally unprepared to deal with the situation.
When PA-AG was given jurisdiction over farmed cervids, they had little background or ability to oversee such operations. They were not given increased funding to deal with that, as part of the deal when the pols dumped that in their lap.
Cervids were taken away from PGC, because cervid farmers complained to their representatives that PGC was "too strict" in enforcing existing regs. I recall the BOC meeting when the lobby was packed with irate cervid farmers - many of them Amish, btw - who came to rais a fuss about that oversight. Wasn't long after that, when jurisdiction was taken away and handed off to AG.
The arrival of CWD in PA, caught them with their trousers down and they've done little since then, to rise to the occasion and effectively deal with CWD in farmed cervids.
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Post by ridgecommander on Jul 14, 2017 7:58:32 GMT -5
Ridge, your position has lots of support in some quarters, but misses one critical component that's worth pointing out: AG interests have a long history and background of experience, in recognizing/dealing with common livestock diseases. It's why we have fairly frequent situations of industry-wide moratoriums on the shipment of affected livestock, whenever something like avian influenza, scabies, swine flu and other common afflictions show up. For example, fowl were banned from the Farm Show exhibitions for some time, over concerns with one or two infectious avian diseases. I think this past show was the first one in some time, to permit domestic fowl again? AG departments, vets and farmers have long been familiar with such diseases, their symptoms and treatment, plus what accepted practices are in containing the spread of them to other areas. That hasn't happened quickly enough with CWD in farmed elk and deer, but for other states imposing their own restrictions on PA, for example. The first joint meeting on CWD, held by AG and PGC at the Farm Show complex, was mostly attended by irate cervid farmers who were mad about not being able to export their animals. AG reps seemed to be overwhelmed by the situation and gave vague responses to questions from the non-farmers. My impression: They were totally unprepared to deal with the situation. When PA-AG was given jurisdiction over farmed cervids, they had little background or ability to oversee such operations. They were not given increased funding to deal with that, as part of the deal when the pols dumped that in their lap. Cervids were taken away from PGC, because cervid farmers complained to their representatives that PGC was "too strict" in enforcing existing regs. I recall the BOC meeting when the lobby was packed with irate cervid farmers - many of them Amish, btw - who came to rais a fuss about that oversight. Wasn't long after that, when jurisdiction was taken away and handed off to AG. The arrival of CWD in PA, caught them with their trousers down and they've done little since then, to rise to the occasion and effectively deal with CWD in farmed cervids. I understand that and have never implied differently. AG is in control. They have shown the ability to be effective in disease management. They have dropped the ball on CWD in Pa. It is up to them to pick up the ball and us to put pressure on them to pick up the ball. There needs to be much stricter enforcement and regulation of all animal farming operations. Those that are behind need to be brought up to speed. |
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Post by turkeykiller on Jul 14, 2017 8:13:11 GMT -5
boy I'm glad I mentioned in my post the deer farms played a role in the spread of CWD. Otherwise I would be havin trouble breathein. Since it was first discovered, there has been thousands of hunters bring mule deer back to Pa. How many dumped the carcass's in the woods after butcherin. I would guess far more than the number of live deer shipped to farms here. Everybody has a theory, no one knows for sure. Probably very few brought whole mule deer home from out west. Most would have brought home either boned out meat in a cooler or meat they got cut up in a butcher shop. The carcasses would stay out west where they killed the deer. I hunted out west a number of times and always brought meat back. If I brought any part of the head home it would have been a cape and the antlers. No parts which would be prime spreaders of the prions. I would not waste my time doing that. If you like to eat venison, it makes no sense to bring a whole deer home from out west, thereby allowing it to spoil a bit before butchering. Meanwhile, many live deer were imported by fenced operations and deer farms into PA from a number of states. Brad Gsell who ran Gsell's Whitetails told me that he had imported genetic stock from over a dozen states for his operation. Brad sold Gsell's Whitetails a few years ago. I suspect he saw the handwriting on the wall and took his profit. George, maybe I should have worded my post a little different. Instead of bringin deer home for butgherin, I should have said bringin the head home for mountin. I have been out west huntin 6 times. The first 3 times, there was no restriction on bringin heads home without skinnin. It is now illegal to do that. Bringin the whole head back was the norm for years, taxidermists wanted that for measurements and such. You know the brains and spinal cord are the culprit, both of which are in the head which was brought back to Pa. |
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Post by 3212 on Jul 14, 2017 10:26:16 GMT -5
What is the AG dept. going to do after the"deer is out of the barn".Are they going to hunt it down and kill it or is it up to the general public ie.hunters to deal with the results.Some of these characters are not going to follow rules they don't agree with.As with the 10pt previously mentioned.
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Post by ridgecommander on Jul 14, 2017 10:40:34 GMT -5
What is the AG dept. going to do after the"deer is out of the barn".Are they going to hunt it down and kill it or is it up to the general public ie.hunters to deal with the results.Some of these characters are not going to follow rules they don't agree with.As with the 10pt previously mentioned. You had made a comment that no wildlife should be farmed. I then asked you if your feel the same about other farmed wildlife that are currently farmed? Salmon, oysters, quail, pheasants, turkeys, talapia etc...... Even beef and chicken came from wild stock. |
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Post by 3212 on Jul 14, 2017 10:49:58 GMT -5
What is the AG dept. going to do after the"deer is out of the barn".Are they going to hunt it down and kill it or is it up to the general public ie.hunters to deal with the results.Some of these characters are not going to follow rules they don't agree with.As with the 10pt previously mentioned. You had made a comment that no wildlife should be farmed. I then asked you if your feel the same about other farmed wildlife that are currently farmed? Salmon, oysters, quail, pheasants, turkeys, talapia etc...... Even beef and chicken came from wild stock. |
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Post by 3212 on Jul 14, 2017 11:00:51 GMT -5
You had made a comment that no wildlife should be farmed. I then asked you if your feel the same about other farmed wildlife that are currently farmed? Salmon, oysters, quail, pheasants, turkeys, talapia etc...... Even beef and chicken came from wild stock. I get your point.I guess my point is that cwd has proven to be so difficult to control that deer farming should have been banned long ago.I am especially concerned with the transport of farmed deer.I don't trust somebody with a profit motive to follow the rules.Many of the diseases of the past were not prion related.Mad cow disease in England provides an example of how many animals will have to be killed if it is not contained. |
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Post by dennyf on Jul 14, 2017 16:49:58 GMT -5
Press conference on CWD:
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